Mario's Lost World

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Stifu

Posted on 02-26-07 01:35 PM

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Very nice, although the background quality is uneven.

IMO:

Good
Bad
Good
Good
Weird (we already discussed about those floating leaves before...)
Good
Good
Good
Good
Good
Bad
Good (floating leaves aren't much of a problem here)

Luigi-San

Posted on 02-27-07 12:08 AM

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*commences drooling*

icegoom

Posted on 02-27-07 12:27 AM

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Stifu: That forest background is the first one I drew, before I really knew how backgrounds worked. I tried to cram detail into every available tile and ran out of space. Were I doing it now, I'd leave huge patches of solid color to save tile space and cut down on the "busyness." I know it needs replacing, I just have an aversion to doing backgrounds because they're so much more work than foregrounds or sprites. It does become less obtrusive when I turn the contrast down on the background, though.

Phoenix Yoshi

Posted on 02-27-07 12:42 AM

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Care to show us more screens, Icegoom? You should probably know by now that I like seeing new screens.

Spontaneous Madness

Posted on 02-27-07 11:04 PM

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Wow

angelic GFX as usual icegoom

The levels don't look to bad either, and that's what matters

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xineohPK

Posted on 02-27-07 11:35 PM

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For some of them, I'd say there's too many graphics. It makes it hard to see what is what because there is so much to look at. v_v

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Squash Monster

Posted on 03-08-07 06:25 AM

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First... this whole thing looks really fantastic. Like, seriously. Once I'm working on professional projects I'm going to try to hire you.

Second... gonna point out everything I see wrong. Because a certain Kyouji seems to be missing.

The undersides of the platforms, or the tops of the white areas (however you care to look at it) look strange. I'm pretty sure they should slightly overlap the boards, rather than being overlapped by them. Also, the way the downward white portion has a lip that just ends unceremoniously looks bad.

The platform hanging off the mast is on a completely different perspective from the rest of things. We should be able to see the top of it. (And damn that's a good looking bird)

The rope ladder's right-hand connection to the net is just floating and the red turtle appears to be floating too. (Nice background)

The outline on the vertical post you have here undermines everything you've accomplished with the shading to make it round. I'd recommend either making the shading go a lot darker near the edges so the outline looks like part of it or switching to a coloured outline (like FF6 for example).

The empty space behind the background doesn't look as good as a lot of things you've pulled off. Though I don't know if SMW's engine would let you fix that easily.

If you did something to make the spacial relationship between the solid wall and the walkthrough one connected to it clearer, this would kick tons of ass. It wouldn't really take much -- you just need to do something with the space between the foreground and middleground. Personally I'd try to put a small pile of sand in the corner and use that to establish the space.

It might look better if you couldn't see the lines coming down from the platform. I might also be wrong though. (I like the little bits of grass for some reason)

If you increase the contrast of the foreground or decrease the contrast of the background, it'll be a lot easier to tell the two apart and the level won't feel so cluttered. (The trees, ground, rocks, and pokeys all look great though, I love what you did with them. It's like what platformer games have been trying to look like since the genre was conceived.)

The tops and bottoms of the columns are shaded in a way that makes it look like they pop in front of the foreground. You might want to tone that down some. And there needs to be something holding that net up. The foreground could use some help popping forward too. Increasing its redness or contrast will help. Decreasing the contrast of the blue parts will also help. The far background actually does a shockingly good job of staying in the background though, given that redder colors tend to appear closer to the viewer, well done on that. (All the spikes and lava look great)

Some of the ropes are atatched, but one still needs something. The ball and chains could use sockets. The koopas could stand to cling to the ropes better when going around edges. How does that water stay separate from the lava?

Everything I said in the last forest about how to get things spread out depth-wise still applies. Especially for that tree in the foreground.

I don't really like the color you're using for the far background. And you really should do something to make things recede into the background general. It's pretty much the only thing stopping your forests.

The pipes and the platforms have different perspectives, which is a shame. I still don't like the use of a single color for your far background, by the way.

A bit more enemy variety here than previously revealed, plus my newly completed wooden trestles and stakes.

Same pillar quibble as before.

Lots of stuff I've mentioned already. But I've just gotta say that damn those are nice vines.

A few last things:
1) OMGWTFAWESOME
2) Every image you've shown is really really great, except the shyguy ones. Those are just good.
3) I can't wait to play this thing.

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icegoom

Posted on 03-08-07 09:19 AM (rev. 2 of 06-01-07 04:33 AM)

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Thanks for the critique, Squash Monster. A lot of the problems you mention just stem from the fact that stuff isn't finished, but I'll try to take it to heart as I work further.

Posted by Squash Monster
The undersides of the platforms, or the tops of the white areas (however you care to look at it) look strange. I'm pretty sure they should slightly overlap the boards, rather than being overlapped by them. Also, the way the downward white portion has a lip that just ends unceremoniously looks bad The platform hanging off the mast is on a completely different perspective from the rest of things. We should be able to see the top of it. The rope ladder's right-hand connection to the net is just floating and the red turtle appears to be floating too.

The cruise ship started off being built from Ghost House tiles before I had any graphics done for it. There are still pieces of haunted house sitting around that I haven't replaced yet. The mast platform is one, and the lip on the white portion with no bottom is another. They will be changed, I just have to figure out a way to do so that's efficient in tile use.

Not making a connection tile for the rope ladder was a cheat that I'd hoped I could get away with, and I can't really control that the climbing Koopas come off the side of the net when they turn. (They also do that with the castle fences in the original SMW) I could make the net extend another eight pixels to the right, but then it would be odd that Mario wasn't able to climb on that portion.

The outline on the vertical post you have here undermines everything you've accomplished with the shading to make it round. I'd recommend either making the shading go a lot darker near the edges so the outline looks like part of it or switching to a coloured outline (like FF6 for example). The empty space behind the background doesn't look as good as a lot of things you've pulled off. Though I don't know if SMW's engine would let you fix that easily.

The vertical post is a direct rip from SMB2 because I was too lazy to draw a new one. I probably should, huh? The background is another example of me being lazy. I didn't want to go to the trouble of doing new map16, so I just edited SMW's original castle background. There's all kinds of free space I could use to make a gradient or a forest of columns extending into the distance.

If you did something to make the spacial relationship between the solid wall and the walkthrough one connected to it clearer, this would kick tons of ass. It wouldn't really take much -- you just need to do something with the space between the foreground and middleground. Personally I'd try to put a small pile of sand in the corner and use that to establish the space. It might look better if you couldn't see the lines coming down from the platform.

I already made the walkthrough wall slightly darker than the the solid one. But yeah, I could stick a small pile of sand in there, too. You can see the lines coming down because I've connected slopes to a solid wall at kind of an odd angle. In the original game, the lines would extend all the way down to the bottom of the screen, but I figured I could get away with cutting them short since it's all sand.

If you increase the contrast of the foreground or decrease the contrast of the background, it'll be a lot easier to tell the two apart and the level won't feel so cluttered. (The trees, ground, rocks, and pokeys all look great though, I love what you did with them. It's like what platformer games have been trying to look like since the genre was conceived.)

That background's on my short list of things to change. A lower contrast palette definitely helps, but I'm going to remove a lot of the individual leaves, too, and make things blobbier back there. Here's five minutes work in Photoshop to show what I'm shooting for:

By the way, I've used ExAnimation on the Pokeys to make them kind of rotate to the left and right as they walk, which I think works.

The tops and bottoms of the columns are shaded in a way that makes it look like they pop in front of the foreground. You might want to tone that down some. And there needs to be something holding that net up. The foreground could use some help popping forward too. Increasing its redness or contrast will help. Decreasing the contrast of the blue parts will also help. The far background actually does a shockingly good job of staying in the background though, given that redder colors tend to appear closer to the viewer, well done on that. (All the spikes and lava look great)

Some of the ropes are atatched, but one still needs something. The ball and chains could use sockets. The koopas could stand to cling to the ropes better when going around edges. How does that water stay separate from the lava?

There's no lava, the sea in the background is orange from the sunset, so I guess that's the redder color appearing closer than it is. The blue columns need to be slightly darker, I guess, although they're just a few feet behind the foreground spacially. Playing with selective color in Photoshop:

Any of those colors any better? Figuring out what color to make the foreground water is pretty much the hardest thing here.

The ropes I tried attaching to the columns, which doesn't make a lot of sense, but moreso than them just floating in air, I guess. Would it help to clearly anchor a hook into the side of the column? Ball 'n' Chain isn't programmed to have sockets, and again, I can't do much to make the Koopas adhere better to the sides of the net. The turning frame isn't on screen for that long, I guess.

Everything I said in the last forest about how to get things spread out depth-wise still applies. Especially for that tree in the foreground. I don't really like the color you're using for the far background. And you really should do something to make things recede into the background general. It's pretty much the only thing stopping your forests.

Shading older backgrounds for sunset like this is a way for me to avoid having to draw new onws. I'm hoping turning down the contrast will help here, as well. If I wanted to figure out how to use HDMA, I could have gradients in my far backgrounds instead of solid colors, but I think I'd have to start over with a fresh ROM to do that...

The pipes and the platforms have different perspectives, which is a shame. I still don't like the use of a single color for your far background, by the way.

I had trouble with the perspective on those boards laying on the brambles. The angle's not much different from the one used in DKC2, but I laid them down in a more straight line instead of slanting them at odd angles. The background I used for reference had another layer of scrolling clouds behind the brambles, but I can't really do that in SMW. That background's at least unobtrusive, I guess.

Stifu

Posted on 03-08-07 12:13 PM

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As for the last screenshot, those new colors are nice, but they look a bit dull / washed out, not colorful enough for a Mario game, compared to the other version... So I'd stick with the other version, or try to come up with another one.

Smallhacker

Posted on 03-08-07 05:53 PM

Link | Quote | ID: 12262

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Posted by icegoom
I could make the net extend another eight pixels to the right, but then it would be odd that Mario wasn't able to climb on that portion.

Well... How about just extending it two or three pixels, just enough to make the Koopas touch the net? Oh, right. That wastes graphics space. Never mind.

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icegoom

Posted on 03-09-07 11:18 PM

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Posted by Stifu
As for the last screenshot, those new colors are nice, but they look a bit dull / washed out, not colorful enough for a Mario game, compared to the other version... So I'd stick with the other version, or try to come up with another one.

I have a tendency to sometimes go too extreme for the sake of comparison. The sprites wouldn't be washed out like that in-game, but they were affected when I messed with the color on everything else. I was mainly trying to see what things would look like if the foreground was a bit pinker, the columns were darker, and the background were less intensely orange. I'll hand select a palette that's somewhere in between the two extremes, I imagine.

Posted by Smallhacker
Well... How about just extending it two or three pixels, just enough to make the Koopas touch the net? Oh, right. That wastes graphics space. Never mind.

Well, graphical space isn't at that much of a premium, so that would probably be doable. It might mess with the angle of the diagonal ropes, though, which might be more trouble than it's worth. Working with 16x16 tiles can be a pain sometimes...

Squash Monster

Posted on 03-20-07 07:30 PM

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You can make the diagonal ropes not go to the exact corners of the net though. Actually, it might be hard to draw, but if you made it look like there was a bunch of net hanging loose on the edges because they doesn't have diagonal ropes to keep taut, it'd explain why the turtles hang onto it and look cool and not mess up your corners at the same time. ____________________

Lordlazer

Posted on 03-21-07 05:10 AM

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Wow...is almost all I can say.

It is amazing at the quality of hacks coming-out/being-worked-on as of late. As some have said, it feels as though they are games made on the SMW engine, instead of a hack. All I can say is great work and if you are planning on becoming a video game designer I can already tell you are doing a great job with the journey thus far. Though on another note, I honestly hope this isn't all hype... Even though the screens and Youtube vids look VERY promising... Ah, well, just be careful and not mess it up. I'm sure people (and you know this already), but make sure your levels are "playable". Although that thwomp level looks fun and interesting to me, upon watching the Youtube vid it looks quite tough, not that tough is a bad thing. Personally, I like a good challenge, but if you are planning (or are currently) to work in video game design, it is wise to have it so the levels are enjoyable by "normal" gamers and not simply for the hardcore audience. Anyways, I look forward to your next update(s)!

P.S. If you feel I'm picking on you by emphasizing about the level design, I'm not. I'm majoring in game design and simply am trying to "share the wealth".

icegoom

Posted on 03-23-07 10:33 AM (rev. 2 of 06-01-07 04:36 AM)

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Posted by Lordlazer
I honestly hope this isn't all hype... Even though the screens and Youtube vids look VERY promising... Ah, well, just be careful and not mess it up. I'm sure people (and you know this already), but make sure your levels are "playable". Although that thwomp level looks fun and interesting to me, upon watching the Youtube vid it looks quite tough, not that tough is a bad thing. Personally, I like a good challenge, but if you are planning (or are currently) to work in video game design, it is wise to have it so the levels are enjoyable by "normal" gamers and not simply for the hardcore audience. Anyways, I look forward to your next update(s)!

P.S. If you feel I'm picking on you by emphasizing about the level design, I'm not. I'm majoring in game design and simply am trying to "share the wealth".

Trust me, I'm feeling the pressure. I want this hack to live up to people's expectations, but at the same time, I feel like I'm kind of weak at level design. I try to make truly enjoyable levels, but in the end I can only make stuff I have fun playing and hope than other people will like it, too.

I actually went through Treetop Tussle the other day and added some yellow ! blocks. If the player's been to the Yellow Switch Palace, (And by this point, they should have) some of the more difficult to avoid Thwomps are blocked off. I've been trying to tone down the difficulty on several levels, but who knows if I'm succeeding.

I feel bad posting without sharing some new images... A lot of my hacking of late has been fixing graphical glitches, which I can't really show. I spent today adding a bunch of ExAnimation to some of my water levels, but I don't really feel like making huge animated GIFs to show them off. Um, here's a swamp set (I'm not sure on the perspective here):

And here it is partially implemented:

Regarding the grey Fly Guy in the second shot: I'm sort of torn about whether to make it stompable. It's been a skin-swapped Eerie in the past, but with Sprite Tool I can just tweak it to make it stompable if I wish. (I've already made it fireballable and edible) I'm really not big on deceiving the player, and all other Shy Guy enemies are safe to stomp, so it probably ought to be too, for consistency's sake. On the other hand, if it's unstompable, you can ride it with spin jumps to collect coins that are located over pits or find secrets. I'm torn...

Kles

Posted on 03-23-07 09:26 PM

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Hmmm... let's just say the shy guy helicopter blades are made of some really weak material that any man could bust right through with a good enough jump.

Damn, though. That looks AWESOME.

Ribo Zurai

Posted on 03-25-07 08:53 PM

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WOW!!! Incrible! There´s a demo?

Lordlazer

Posted on 03-25-07 09:06 PM

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From what I can tell, there hasn't been a public released demo.

Phazorite

Posted on 05-04-07 01:38 AM (rev. 2 of 05-04-07 01:39 AM)

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H H OO L Y Y
H H O O L Y Y
HHHH O O L Y
H H O O L Y
H H OO LLLLL Y

CCCCC RRRRR AAAAA PPPPPP
C R R A A P P
C RRRRR A AA A PPPPPP
C R R A A P
CCCCC R R A A P

[sorry if it got totally garbled, it's a bitch to make ASCII art look right on boards]

Icegoom, you are truly the alpha and the omega of all graphical hackers. I thought Ghettoyouth's l33tness was unbeatable (anyone see that video of his newest Stranded hack?? un****ingbelievable!) but those graphics are good enough to come from a DS! Now I'm just dying for a 3-world demo. Any planned date for one?

In any case...end of rant. Your graphics truly are incredible, but your backgrounds don't always click well. Those castle levels come to mind...very busy in the BG, enough to kinda kill the sense of perspective. I love the sunset effect though...and your Cruise Ship level is pure bottled originality, vintage '07!

Level design? Well, the jury's still out there. I saw Dino Dino Canyon in action and it looked very Nintendoese, if a little incomplete and messy. Axe those floating/standing cement blocks, they're just random, tacky clutter in your handrawn awesomeness. I love your level designs so far...very creative and more like something Miyamoto would come up with. I see cues from DKC2 everywhere also. Love that game.

Keep up the fantastic work! I'd like to see some more YouTube videos too.

And if you've been wondering where I've been, well, I'm back!

I took a break from ROM hacking these last few months to focus on other things in life, like school and proving I even have a life

You've given me even more inspiration to do some more work on my Mario hack and my Zelda LttP hack that I'm just now starting.

Acmlm forever!!

icegoom

Posted on 05-04-07 01:58 AM

Link | Quote | ID: 32697

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Huh. I've been putting off bumping this because I didn't have anything radically diferent to show off. I've still been steadily working on this. (LordLazer's done some testing for me and helped me out quite a bit with improving my levels)

You referenced the Dino Dino Canyon video, which I never bothered to post a link to here, so um, here's a link. (The level's been changed somewhat since I made the video, though) Also, here's the opening demo.

DKC2 is the goal with my levels. That's about the ultimate platformer, as far as I'm concerned, so I'm trying to do anything I can to bring SMW closer to it.

Tyty

Posted on 05-04-07 02:58 AM

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The game looks amazing, but after watching the youtube video it looks like mario is constantly taking one step and dragging the other leg... why'd nintendo only give us 3 frames of animation for this? anyways... I really like what the blarggs look like, and I really wish I was as good at this as you are...

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