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| Acmlm's Board - I2 Archive - World Affairs / Debate - Should US oppose the Kyoto Environmental Treaty? |
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Should the US oppose the Kyoto Treaty?| The US have opposed the Kyoto Treaty, again, saying that they want to make sure to keep American Jobs? Should they have done so? | Yes, Jobs are more important! |
16.7%, 4 votes | No, the Environment is more important! |
12.5%, 3 votes | WTF, who said that Jobs and Environment weren't compatible? |
70.8%, 17 votes | Multi-voting is disabled.
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Tarale I'm not under the alfluence of incohol like some thinkle peop I am. It's just the drunker I sit here the longer I get.  Level: 73  Posts: 724/2720 EXP: 3458036 For next: 27832 Since: 03-18-04 From: Adelaide, Australia Since last post: 4 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
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Once again, Bush has stood by his rejection of the Kyoto Treaty. His basis for this having been jobs.
Personally, I don't think that supporting the treaty would lose jobs -- in fact, it could create some jobs, as companies would need to hire some more people to tackle the problem of greenhouse emissions. At the very least, I think this "it's either the environment, or jobs" thing is a false dichotomy. I would like to see the US ratify the Kyoto Treaty, myself. Your thoughts? |
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Pegasus Bit Level: 26  Posts: 215/251 EXP: 97188 For next: 5087 Since: 03-15-04 Since last post: 337 days Last activity: 320 days |
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| I think both jobs and the environment are equally important, but with the available number of jobs available in the US right now (at least in CT where I live), I think bush should first focus on increasing the number of jobs for all it's people that don't have or can't really find jobs out there, there isn't really a lot of jobs around here as well. After that, he can go on more important matters, such as the environment since there is lots of pollution in the air that's not good, really needs to be cleaned up badly like it that wasn't enough. (Slightly off topic, but this old movie "Prophecy" showed me how harmful pollution can be to animals, the mercury in fish that can affect the pregnant females and can cause undesirable effects to the unborn child/animal, or so I saw in the movie.) But anyway, I think that those are the most important to focus on right now at this point in time, in that particular order. *votes for jobs* |
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Tarale I'm not under the alfluence of incohol like some thinkle peop I am. It's just the drunker I sit here the longer I get. Level: 73 Posts: 725/2720 EXP: 3458036 For next: 27832 Since: 03-18-04 From: Adelaide, Australia Since last post: 4 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
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| I vote that the US at least show some kind of willingness to cut down greenhouse gas emissions. If just cause I don't want to live in a fucked up world cause one really big country isn't playing fair as far as taking care of the planet goes. Screw the short term "jobs". I vote for the long term world not being borked option. Although frankly, I don't see how this is mutually exclusive either. I don't see how having jobs has to equal environment fuckover, and vice versa. |
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Dracoon Zelda The temp ban/forum ban bypasser! Level: 84  Posts: 1709/3727 EXP: 5514391 For next: 147561 Since: 03-25-04 From: At home Since last post: 5 hours Last activity: 5 hours |
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| Couldn't they do both? It isn't hard you just have to make it so the factories can be bigger and put up less polution... I am kind of confused on what you are talking about though, could you... simplify it? | |||
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Tarale I'm not under the alfluence of incohol like some thinkle peop I am. It's just the drunker I sit here the longer I get. Level: 73 Posts: 726/2720 EXP: 3458036 For next: 27832 Since: 03-18-04 From: Adelaide, Australia Since last post: 4 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
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| Okay, the US says that if they support the Kyoto Treaty (and cut down Greenhouse Gas Emissions) that their people will lose a HUGE amount of jobs. I don't think that it necessarily needs to be the case. I don't think that "helping the environment" and "having jobs' are two things that can't possibly coexist. However, in the unlikely event that it is like that, I personally would rather see the United States support the Kyoto Treaty, and risk losing some jobs. People bounce back from that kind of thing -- but who knows what kind of damage we are doing in the meantime with the Greenhouse Gases. So the world's temperatrure has raised maybe 1 degree Celcius all over.... most people probably don't think that's much. But frankly, I can't even begin to think how much energy it must take to raise the temperature of a whole planet by as much as 1 degree! If there's something that can be done about things like that, I'd like to see the US, and all governments around the world, doing their best  |
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Arwon Zora Level: 35  Posts: 208/506 EXP: 278115 For next: 1821 Since: 03-15-04 From: Terra Australis Incognita Since last post: 5 hours Last activity: 10 min. |
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| I don't like it when environmental issues are presented as a zero-sum trade-off between "jobs" and "trees" or something similar. | |||
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Tarale I'm not under the alfluence of incohol like some thinkle peop I am. It's just the drunker I sit here the longer I get. Level: 73 Posts: 729/2720 EXP: 3458036 For next: 27832 Since: 03-18-04 From: Adelaide, Australia Since last post: 4 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
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Originally posted by Arwon It's called a false dichotomy. They're great for manipulating stupid people ... I hate them too. |
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Colleen Administrator Level: 136 Posts: 4987/11302 EXP: 29369328 For next: 727587 Since: 03-15-04 From: LaSalle, Quebec, Canada Since last post: 3 hours Last activity: 1 hour |
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| Well, Bush and the US look like isolationists if they're going to be the only country that doesn't follow the treaty. I hate the whole job comparison either, but my gut feeling is that the States will approve Kyoto. In 4 years.  |
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MathOnNapkins Math n' Hacks Level: 67  Posts: 848/2189 EXP: 2495887 For next: 96985 Since: 03-18-04 From: Base Tourian Since last post: 1 hour Last activity: 32 min. |
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Originally posted by Colleen Well hey I can't edit your posts. |
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Kefka Indefinitely Unbanned Level: 81 Posts: 2345/3392 EXP: 4826208 For next: 166641 Since: 03-15-04 From: Pomona, CALIFORNIA BABY! Since last post: 4 hours Last activity: 4 hours |
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| Um... the reason why jobs will be lost is because of cost. It costs a lot, believe it or not, to be environmentally sound. It takes technology to keep greenhouse effects negated. Technology costs money. Now, would the number of jobs lost be large? Probably not. If they were to keep those jobs, probably their profits would be about 8 times as much as they spent as opposed to 10 times as much. So, should the U.S. have signed it? Yes. But, because Cheney and Bush want maximum profits for every major corporation in the U.S. (mainly Halliburton, who would be one of the most affected companies by this document), they make sure that nothing, NOTHING, could get in the way of that happening. They won't let a penny slip by the companies. Even if it means hurting the environment in which we all live. |
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Kitten Yiffer Purple wand Furry moderator Vivent l'exp����¯�¿�½������©rience de signalisation d'amusement, ou bien ! Level: 135 Posts: 5902/11162 EXP: 28824106 For next: 510899 Since: 03-15-04 From: Sweden Since last post: 3 hours Last activity: 4 min. |
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You know, if US is a big and rich country why can't they accept a treatment?  I don't say they should ignore jobs and all, but thoose two can go together. And well... we're quite following the Kyoto treaty here. Then we have quite harsh rules about polluting here. ...what was Kerry's opinion on the Kyoto treaty? :/ |
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Ran-chan Moldorm eek, when are they going to stop growing... Level: 143  Posts: 4954/12781 EXP: 35293588 For next: 538220 Since: 03-15-04 From: Nerima District, Tokyo - Japan Since last post: 12 hours Last activity: 12 hours |
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Our nuclear power plant will be closed down, I think... Where the hell can we get that much energy from elsewhere?Wind power? No way! |
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Tarale I'm not under the alfluence of incohol like some thinkle peop I am. It's just the drunker I sit here the longer I get. Level: 73 Posts: 731/2720 EXP: 3458036 For next: 27832 Since: 03-18-04 From: Adelaide, Australia Since last post: 4 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
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| I wish I had linkage to where I read this original idea, but (I can't be arsed, so) anyways: Here's an interesting idea: It's actually better for business (ie, plant) to be environmentally friendly. There are a few big BIG costs with a business (ie, the ones affected here), one of which is energy. Reusing and saving energy will keep costs down and make businesses more efficient, and more profitable. And of course, more environmentally friendly. It may have an impact on jobs in the short term, or it may require new people to be hired to implement and maintain energy saving ideas and systems. In the long term, it should lead to more efficient plants... if they can reuse their energy well, they're keeping their costs down, making more room for those fun fun profits. Just an idea. |
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Kitten Yiffer Purple wand Furry moderator Vivent l'exp����¯�¿�½������©rience de signalisation d'amusement, ou bien ! Level: 135 Posts: 5905/11162 EXP: 28824106 For next: 510899 Since: 03-15-04 From: Sweden Since last post: 3 hours Last activity: 4 min. |
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Originally posted by Trapster... That was so offtopic, the closedown of our nuclear plant have nothing to do with the Kyoto treaty.  |
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Ran-chan Moldorm eek, when are they going to stop growing... Level: 143 Posts: 4973/12781 EXP: 35293588 For next: 538220 Since: 03-15-04 From: Nerima District, Tokyo - Japan Since last post: 12 hours Last activity: 12 hours |
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| Maybe so but it still has to do with the environment... It |
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macks Level: 45 Posts: 450/900 EXP: 659955 For next: 209 Since: 03-15-04 From: Sweden Since last post: 1 day Last activity: 22 hours |
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| I voted for "WTF, who said that Jobs and Environment weren't compatible?". But if it had to come down to one of the options, the enviorment is far more important then jobs. |
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Kefka Indefinitely Unbanned Level: 81 Posts: 2346/3392 EXP: 4826208 For next: 166641 Since: 03-15-04 From: Pomona, CALIFORNIA BABY! Since last post: 4 hours Last activity: 4 hours |
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Originally posted by max So if you're left homeless with no where to get a job, but the environment around you that you are bumming around in is clean, will you still be saying this? Not that I disagree with you, but I was just wondering if you'd change your mind under certain circumstances. |
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macks Level: 45 Posts: 455/900 EXP: 659955 For next: 209 Since: 03-15-04 From: Sweden Since last post: 1 day Last activity: 22 hours |
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| I don't know if I'd change my mind under those circumstanses, because I've never lived like that. I hope though that I would not think that me being homeless is more important then the earth becoming uninhabitable for future geneartions. |
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Tarale I'm not under the alfluence of incohol like some thinkle peop I am. It's just the drunker I sit here the longer I get. Level: 73 Posts: 752/2720 EXP: 3458036 For next: 27832 Since: 03-18-04 From: Adelaide, Australia Since last post: 4 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
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| Yeah, well, I'd feel pretty shitty if I had a job now, but when I'm 80, we have to live in glass bubbles, and my great grandkids only know what the world was like from having read picturebooks... |
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Jizuko Jiz Is The Magic! This board has run out of mana and can no longer use The Magic Level: 51  Posts: 863/1191 EXP: 1004683 For next: 9255 Since: 03-15-04 Since last post: 230 days Last activity: 213 days |
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| Bah, Jobs can be made, Enviroment can't. Stupid stupid president. There will always be unemployed, homeless people, I don't think they want to live in smog-filled cardboardboxes, and sleep in oxygen masks. Edit: Incase anyone wonders, I'm not a greenpeace hippie or whatever, I hate most fuckers that go around protesteting to every little thing that doesn't go their way. And I love Nuclear, more nuclear for the people. (edited by Jizuko on 11-10-04 02:05 PM) |
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| Acmlm's Board - I2 Archive - World Affairs / Debate - Should US oppose the Kyoto Environmental Treaty? |
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