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| Acmlm's Board - I2 Archive - World Affairs / Debate - US Election 2004 -- America Votes (Bush is wiener) |
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Apple Kodondo Level: 38 Posts: 515/594 EXP: 350163 For next: 20284 Since: 03-27-04 From: Washington. Since last post: 264 days Last activity: 152 days |
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| I heard from a kid I talk to from Pennsylvania that some people are pissed (and sueing) that Nader was on the ballet... Which makes me wonder... Did all the presidental candaites appear on ballets around the country? I know the ballet I had offered like 8 candiates. |
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Atma X Bandit Level: 43  Posts: 619/801 EXP: 553639 For next: 11407 Since: 03-16-04 From: Derrière vous!!! Since last post: 43 days Last activity: 14 days |
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| Um, I don't remember for sure how many Canidates were on my Ballet, but it was at least pretty close to 8 (or maybe 6-7). (edited by Atma X on 11-04-04 01:35 AM) |
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Legion banning people for no reason sure is fun Level: 101  Posts: 2782/5657 EXP: 10399737 For next: 317938 Since: 03-15-04 From: The Crossroads is under attack! Since last post: 5 days Last activity: 5 days |
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Originally posted by Atma X Ballet?  Hey! Here's a little something I found which has some viewpoints from a few other countries. PARIS (AP) -- European allies alienated by President Bush's first four years in power offered Wednesday to let bygones be bygones, saying they want to work with the new administration and seeking, right from Day 1, to get the new White House to listen more to overseas opinion. French President Jacques Chirac, in a congratulatory letter, said he hoped Bush's second term "will be the occasion for strengthening the French-American friendship." "We will be unable to find satisfying responses to the numerous challenges that confront us today without a close trans-Atlantic partnership," wrote Chirac. He addressed the letter to "Dear George." Another critic of the Iraq war, Spanish Prime Minister Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero said his government wants "a relationship of efficient, constructive cooperation with the U.S. government and with President Bush, respecting the ideas of each side." Zapatero, who angered Washington by withdrawing Spanish troops from Iraq, stayed up most of the night to watch as Republican red crept across the U.S. electoral map. Election interest in Europe was intense, as was the disappointment many felt over Bush's victory. Some saw it as proof that Europe and the United States are further apart than ever. "There is a major and lasting lack of understanding between the American people and the rest of the world, in both directions," said Hubert Vedrine, a former French foreign minister. "Almost all nations, with perhaps three or four exceptions, wanted change." Others worried that Bush, strengthened by a bigger win than in 2000 and backed by a Republican Congress, would turn a deaf ear to world concerns. "Europe will continue to criticize Bush the same way as earlier," said Swedish Prime Minister Goeran Persson. "But I do not believe that he will be more willing to listen." Russian lawmakers and analysts cautioned that second-term U.S. presidents often flex more muscle to secure a place in history and warned that President Vladimir Putin could face more criticism from the White House over his efforts to consolidate power and tinker with Russia's electoral system, which critics have called a retreat from democracy. Karsten Voigt, the German Foreign Ministry's top official for relations with Washington, said he hoped Bush would seize the chance for "a new beginning" with Europe. "I hope that a re-elected President Bush would use the chance offered by his re-election for a new beginning in European-American and German-American relations," Voigt told ARD television, adding the U.S. leader would do well to "approach the Europeans ... and say, let us sit down and talk about where we have common interests." "That is necessary on the Middle East, it is necessary and possible in fighting terrorism and in the question of the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction, but it is also needed in the question of AIDS, climate protection and other issues." Although Germany has offered help rebuild Iraq and is training new Iraqi police and military, Voigt said "the German military will not be sent to Iraq." Bush allies in the war on terror took comfort in continuity. "From our point of view, the Bush administration is a known quantity," said Australian Foreign Minister Alexander Downer. "We've had a very good relationship with them for the last four years and I'm sure we'll be able to keep building on that over the next four." But even among these supporters, there were appeals for Bush to work on healing the trans-Atlantic rift. "It is not natural to have - maybe not a cold war - but, in any case, a chilling of relations along theses lines," said Polish Prime Minister Marek Belka. "I hope that European leaders and President Bush will show initiative in this area." The prime minister of Denmark, which has 501 troops in the southern Iraqi city of Basra, said his nation will "stay there as long as needed," but added that the overall goal was "to get out of Iraq." Hungary, meanwhile, announced it would withdraw its 300 non-combat troops from Iraq by the end of March. Its government has been under mounting pressure from citizens and opposition parties who object to the soldiers' presence. European wish lists for White House action include catching terror chief Osama bin Laden, reining in Iran's suspected nuclear program, tackling environmental problems and bringing peace to Iraq, to name but a few. British lawmaker Norman Baker urged Prime Minister Tony Blair to "ring up Bush and say, `George, congratulations on winning the election. Now can we talk about climate change?'" |
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Ran-chan Moldorm eek, when are they going to stop growing... Level: 143  Posts: 4827/12781 EXP: 35293588 For next: 538220 Since: 03-15-04 From: Nerima District, Tokyo - Japan Since last post: 12 hours Last activity: 12 hours |
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Jeb vs. Hillary would indeed be interesting... But I doubt that Jeb would win...  |
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Kitten Yiffer Purple wand Furry moderator Vivent l'exp����¯�¿�½������©rience de signalisation d'amusement, ou bien ! Level: 135 Posts: 5787/11162 EXP: 28824106 For next: 510899 Since: 03-15-04 From: Sweden Since last post: 3 hours Last activity: 4 min. |
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Well, I actually do hope that bush at least tries to fix his past mistakes now when he got selected.  However i'm still pissed about how they made embrynal stem cell reasearch illegal.  And well, European leaders don't want to be chilly against Bush now. That's normal. And eh, wasn't it mostly allied countries that said anything in that article? At least, I hope Bush is not starting a yet another war in his four years period. |
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Apple Kodondo Level: 38 Posts: 516/594 EXP: 350163 For next: 20284 Since: 03-27-04 From: Washington. Since last post: 264 days Last activity: 152 days |
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| I don't think Bush will start another war. I mean, we still need to clean up the mess we caused in Afganistan and Iraq. I await the day, America can go through more than two presidents before getting involved in a war. |
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Arwon Zora Level: 35  Posts: 206/506 EXP: 278115 For next: 1821 Since: 03-15-04 From: Terra Australis Incognita Since last post: 5 hours Last activity: 10 min. |
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Originally posted by Tarale Well, Bush controls everything, both houses and the white house, and has since 2002 - and the supreme court looks likely to fall his way too once someone retires or dies. However, there is somewhat looser intra-party discipline than in Australia which means a slim majority is less solid and absolute than in Australia - Republican and Democrat congressmen and senators often "cross the floor". With large sections of the Republican Party (secular Republicans, so called 'Bull Moose' republicans, small-governemnt fiscal conservatives) disgruntled with the hardline christian fundamentalism and neoconservatism of Bush and his admin, one can only assume he'll continue to have to kinda act in moderation to keep the party happy and united - it seems very likely that over the next four years the Democrats are going to look more and more like the "fiscal responsibility" party of chouce and the Republicans have to be mindful of those voters and members drifting to the Democrats. The marriage between fiscal conservatives and social conservatives is a mere marriage of convenience and the Republican Party knows it. |
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Apple Kodondo Level: 38 Posts: 522/594 EXP: 350163 For next: 20284 Since: 03-27-04 From: Washington. Since last post: 264 days Last activity: 152 days |
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| Heres an interesting peice of information. 1/2 of the people who voted for John Kerry didn't vote for him because of his views. Hell, MOST of the ones I talked to who supported him didn't even know his views. They voted for him on the strict princple that he wasn't Bush. If the democrats would of picked a different candaite would the election turned out different? In my opinion? Yes, Yes it would of. Say Daschele would of had the Democrats support instead of Kerry. That would of probably had the Dakota's support to the Democrats, pushing Bush Electal votes down to about 268. And raising the Democrats to 258. Just something to think about. Bush winning had little to do with the "stupidity" of the American public as it did with the fact that the Democrats picked a poor candaite. |
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NSNick Laidback Admin Level: 85  Posts: 1278/3875 EXP: 5895841 For next: 2699 Since: 03-15-04 From: North Side School: OSU Since last post: 9 hours Last activity: 1 hour |
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| If Daschle couldn't get re-elected to the Senate in his state, what makes you think he would have carried it in an election? | |||
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Atma X Bandit Level: 43 Posts: 620/801 EXP: 553639 For next: 11407 Since: 03-16-04 From: Derrière vous!!! Since last post: 43 days Last activity: 14 days |
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| Yea, seriously (*agrees with NSNick). And Btw, some of the reasons Kerry wasn't elected was because nobody really knew him that well, and then Bush was able to give him the name Flip Flopper, and that one stuck pretty well (and it's funny, because Bush was a big Flip Flopper himself),... and so did all the Liberal crap that Bush kept giving him. And then, a lot of Americans didn't want to get to know him, because they already didn't trust him because of the names that Bush stuck on him from the beginning. (edited by Atma X on 11-04-04 09:55 AM) |
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Lunar Depths Paragoomba Level: 14  Posts: 55/67 EXP: 11330 For next: 1741 Since: 09-01-04 From: New Jersey Since last post: 105 days Last activity: 105 days |
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| "Though you seem to have forgot that when Bush found out about the first Tower being attacked (somebody stepped in the classroom and wispered it in his ear,... and he had the TV on with a News channel on that was doing LIVE coverage), he sat there and kept reading childeren stories. Then, the second Tower was attacked, and when Bush found out about that one, he continued to read childeren stories! WTF is with that?" Wow, I don't know where you pulled that from except maybe...a dark nether region, but that absolutely did not happen. I think it's hilarious how many contradicting stories people tell about where Bush was during 9/11. If I remember correctly, he was said to be 1) At his ranch enjoying free time; 2) Playing golf enjoying freetime; 3) Reading to children. Interesting how one man can be three different places at once! Now, the real story is that as soon as the towers were hit, Bush was evacuated, put in Air Force One, and they flew around for a while before picking a secure location to land. Want to know how I know this? Because my father has some "inside connections" I can't really talk about. And I'm curious Atma X, maybe I'm reading that post the wrong way, but are you insinuating that Bush is hiding things in bills passing through Congress? Last time I checked, the job of writing bills belonged to the HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. Isn't that how it works? I know you all remember those old songs, "I'm just a bill" and whatnot. A bill is written and submitted in the House. It's voted on. It goes to the Senate. It's voted on. It's passed to the President. It's passed or vetoed. It goes to the courts to check constitutionality. No where in there does it say "President writes a bill and fills it full of lies and tricks!" Yeah... And let's not even begin to discuss how dirty this campaign was from both sides. Bush lied about Kerry, Kerry lied about Bush, they gave each other horrible names and as I recall, Kerry even attacked Cheney and Bush's kids. Not so nice. I don't agree with that method at all, and I'm not pinning blame on one candidate over the other, but I'm sorry hun. Just because Bush gave him the name "Flip Flopper" did not make him lose the election. He lost because the American people voted. Sorry, get over it. Anyway, onto much more fun subjects like next election's candidates! I think Hillary is definitely a huge contender for the Democratic side. For Repubs though...who knows! What do y'all think about Ahnold being allowed to run? Should it be allowed? |
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Atma X Bandit Level: 43 Posts: 621/801 EXP: 553639 For next: 11407 Since: 03-16-04 From: Derrière vous!!! Since last post: 43 days Last activity: 14 days |
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Sorry, I meant the Republicans in the House  And about the Flipp Flopper stuff: I think that was something that affected him, because all I've heard from everyone (not only figures in the news, I mean real people that I've talked to, and plenty of them) the past couple months is that they can't trust Kerry because he keeps changing his mind and they don't think that someone who changes their mind so much could lead a country and therefore would not make a good "commander and cheif", as I've heard a million times. (and I'm not saying that that's the main thing that affected him, I'm just saying that it helped Bush on top of all the other things he portrayed Kerry as) And also, how can I know that your dad is telling you the truth about where Bush was,... and how can you know that he's telling you the truth. Everytime I've heard about someone telling their family about government stuff, they always get threatened. And it happened to my friend's dad (about other government issues that weren't even as secret/important as they one you described), so don't tell me that it is BullShit. And Btw, I've already heard the "Real" story as you say it is, so it's actually not that top secret after all,... it was announced all over the news back when it first happened, and so were the other stories,... but only for a little bit (the other stories got out first, and then they tried to deny it, and fed Americans the BS story that you just did to me). I beleive that the story you told me was just a cover up story because they didn't want Bush to look bad,... and because he really doesn't know how to be a "real leader" and that's not the image that they want to be portrayed on Bush (do you really think that if Bush was goofing around while the Towers were being attacked, that they would actually tell you... NO of course not). And also, I've seen the full transcript (or very close to the whole thing) of the Tape that Osama Bin Laden released not to long ago, and he also uses the story that I was taking about, and so does another "video/documentation" that I saw (I'll provide the links to those when I get home). (edited by Atma X on 11-04-04 10:51 AM) (edited by Atma X on 11-04-04 11:23 AM) (edited by Atma X on 11-04-04 11:45 AM) |
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Ran-chan Moldorm eek, when are they going to stop growing... Level: 143 Posts: 4845/12781 EXP: 35293588 For next: 538220 Since: 03-15-04 From: Nerima District, Tokyo - Japan Since last post: 12 hours Last activity: 12 hours |
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| You know, Ahnold isn | |||
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Raistlin the Red Robed Paragoomba Level: 15  Posts: 75/76 EXP: 14064 For next: 2320 Since: 08-08-04 From: Fort Hood, Texas Since last post: 362 days Last activity: 318 days |
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| Atma X- Well how would you have liked him to react? "OMG KIDS WE ARE ALL GONNA DIE I GOTTA GO HIDE BYE OMG SAVE ME" If what you say is true, he kept his cool. Paniacing isn't exactly how a leader is supposed to react. It amazes me Atma X. You truely are an amazing person. First you somehow got access to the "REAL" story (by hearsay, no doubt) and now you managed to get Bin Ladin's tape AND got it accurately translated. So first you think we are using up all their resources and we should just tap into all of ours so you can save about 3 or 4 bucks when you fill up on gas, now you found another conspiracy theory from some other paranoid programmer about what really happened and what's REALLY on the tapes that were given to the U.S. Government and somehow he managed to get his hands on it. Stop playing Golden Eye 007. I promise you're not a secret agent and those things you "heard" about aren't true. |
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Jizuko Jiz Is The Magic! This board has run out of mana and can no longer use The Magic Level: 51  Posts: 831/1191 EXP: 1004683 For next: 9255 Since: 03-15-04 Since last post: 230 days Last activity: 213 days |
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Originally posted by LegionOh I don't doubt you aid, but how much? Compared to other countries it isn't much, not according to sources I've seen on the net, a simple image search gave me an image of aid per gdp in 97. Now I don't know how reliable that is so I tried to dig up another one, that seemed more trustworthy. Lookie here I hope that prooves my point and I didn't make some stupid misstake. I don't claim to be an expert at this. Oh yeah, I heard stuff about some government in africa having an ethnic cleansing, some people on horses chopped away people forcing them to leave their villages, houndred of thousands had moved and many died or something like that. I vaguely remember something along those lines, don't remember where it was though. Now that's something that people should do anything about. |
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Apple Kodondo Level: 38 Posts: 524/594 EXP: 350163 For next: 20284 Since: 03-27-04 From: Washington. Since last post: 264 days Last activity: 152 days |
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Originally posted by NSNick It was more of an example than anything. Just really saying that if the Democrats had a candiate that people knew where he stood, the electon would of most likely turned out differently. |
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Legion banning people for no reason sure is fun Level: 101 Posts: 2789/5657 EXP: 10399737 For next: 317938 Since: 03-15-04 From: The Crossroads is under attack! Since last post: 5 days Last activity: 5 days |
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| Forget all your excsuses as to why Bush won. He won because more people wanted him to be the President. It's as simple as that. And what's with you people who are surprised that politics is far from clean? Bush won by a near landslide. It's almost embaressing. He pulled some serious fucking numbers Tuesday. Jiz, I don't need a chart or some random internet site to tell me what we do and do not donate. I know for a fact that we're always giving out billions upon billiions of dollars to all sorts of places year in and year out. I also said aid, and that wasn't included in your little chart-a-majig which I didn't even try to understand because I'm not good with them anyway. Fact is, we give a SHITLOAD of money and aid point blank. Also, Bush is already starting out pretty damn good. Hear of his new tax plan? For starters, this wont have any effect on social security for people who are getting it now. So they remain safe there. Bush wants to put 2 trillion towards a plan which would make it so taxes aren't as....oppressive (if that's the right word for it). See, part of your tax dollars will go toward......ready for this?......your retirement plan. If, of course, you choose to do so. And why the fuck wouldn't you? Retirement is very important. I for one will NOT be working when I'm an old man. |
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Jizuko Jiz Is The Magic! This board has run out of mana and can no longer use The Magic Level: 51 Posts: 835/1191 EXP: 1004683 For next: 9255 Since: 03-15-04 Since last post: 230 days Last activity: 213 days |
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| Oh so you take information like that out of your ass? You know it would be nice with some fact backing it up. I'm not saying you're wrong but I can make up random numbers too and say they are fact. Per capita, it seemed you aided as much as Italy. That's what it said on that site anyway, it would be nice with something that would atleast try to contradict it. | |||
alte Hexe Star Mario I dreamed I saw Joe Hill last night Alive as you and me "But Joe you're ten years dead!" "I never died" said he "I never died!" said he Level: 99  Posts: 1603/5458 EXP: 9854489 For next: 145511 Since: 03-15-04 From: ... Since last post: 2 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
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Originally posted by Legion Israel doesn't really need 1/3 of your aid budget  |
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Atma X Bandit Level: 43 Posts: 622/801 EXP: 553639 For next: 11407 Since: 03-16-04 From: Derrière vous!!! Since last post: 43 days Last activity: 14 days |
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Originally posted by Raistlin the Red Robed #1. First off, I never said he should panic (why do you keep pulling accusations out of your ass?, you kept doing it to MathOnNapkins too,... WTF?). Bush should have just asked them to excuse him because he had to go and then left the room (the President's a busy guy, so I'm sure they could understand ).OMFG, THAT WAS LIKE SOME GENIUS IDEA THAT NOT EVEN BUSH COULD HAVE THOUGH OF, BUT SOME HOW I DID  . LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL(can you show at least a little more intellegents next time )#2. And second, here's the link with the Transcript http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/79C6AF22-98FB-4A1C-B21F-2BC36E87F61F.htm (BTW the page this link was on is http://www.randirhodes.com). OMFG, I GOT TEH TRANSCRIPT LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL, I MUST BE SOME 1337 HAXOR THAT CAN HACK INTO EVEN GOVERNMENT FILES,... really, was that so hard to find (It's called spending some time looking for it,... which I'm so sure you haven't bothered to do yet).And who even said that I had to translate it. Yes it is from Aljazeera. The website I found it on has Newspapers and other stuff from Countries all over the world (and even in it's current state you'll see some grammatical errors, but if you're smart enough you should be able to understand how to interpret at least 90% of what he's saying,... though since you seem to think that anything like that is impossible to do, you must be a dumbass )#3. I never said anything about anybody using up ALL of anybody's resources. All I said is that we should use SOME (maybe 1/4) of our Oil until we find an alternative resource as soon as possible and not be giving money to the Middle East (actually read what I said this time, because it appears that you never read it, or read it correctly last time ).#4. And hey, if I'm playing 007 (as you say), it's better playing it than thinking that I am actually a part of it like you seem to (and no, I don't play 007, so try not to get yourself confused with that), because you keep telling everyone that you know for sure whether something is True or not as if you are the Secret Agent who knows all the info because the Government actually tells YOU everything that is going on, and then you complete their missions for them. Just because you are over in Iraq does not mean that you know everything that's going on. You are just a Soldier, you are not a part of And to be realistic, there are a lot of people that thought it would be cool to go into the military (all of the branches of it) because they get to shoot guns, fly planes, go on ships, submarines, etc. and you sound like one of those dumbasses. OMG, I GET TO SHOOT A GUN!!!! YEAY!!, LOOK AT ME, I'M A BADASS CAUSE I'M CARRYING A GUN LOLOLOLOLOL!!! XD XD NOW LET'S TRY PULLING THE TRIGGER AND SEE WHAT THAT DOES LOLOLOLOLOL WEEEE IT FIRES LOLOLOLOL XD XD .And hey, just because you are in the military doesn't mean that you have to know everything that goes on (they don't have to tell you anything that they don't want you to know). Although not everybody in the government is completely corrupt, so there is always someone who will release some information, and if you ever want to know at least some info of what's going on, you can do some research and learn as much as possible from the information that is provided (though you'll have to spend some time looking for it, it's not just going to appear all over the news and slap you in the face to wake you up whenever you get lazy )(edited by Atma X on 11-04-04 06:28 PM) |
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