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| 0 user currently in World Affairs / Debate. |
| Acmlm's Board - I2 Archive - World Affairs / Debate - In the USA, should the electoral college be abolished? |
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Arwon Zora Level: 35  Posts: 198/506 EXP: 278115 For next: 1821 Since: 03-15-04 From: Terra Australis Incognita Since last post: 5 hours Last activity: 10 min. |
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| Well, there was Reagan and the Congress. Reagan wanted to cut taxes, Democratic senate wanted to push a budget with new social programs in it. They comprimised... and did both! Creating a massive deficit. Britain's a wierd example because of the House of Lords and its status as a constitutional monarchy running almost purely on convention. Britain's system of government wouldn't work anywhere but in Britain. The HoL basically doesn't do anything, so there's much less opposing the PM than, say, France, where the president is an active counterbalance to the PM, or in places like Ireland or here (until this year at least) where a strong senate has a "review" role over the government. A more orthodox example of a parliamentary system would be Ireland or India, where the president has an almost purely ceremonial role, merely exercising a few reserve powers in emergencies. "And are you implying that removing a popularly-elected President would be a legitimate thing to do if there was too much friction between him and Congress?" No, what I'm saying is that in the event of significant friction there's no constituional recourse. Just about anything could concievably happen. Congress can't oust an unpopular president, the president can't move against congress. There is a very strong temptation to use extra-constitutional means - which in many countries using a US-type model means the army - to solve the impasse. Just to steer this back on topic: What do we think would happen if the Electoral vote tally ended up at 269-269? |
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hhallahh Bob-Omb Level: 38  Posts: 426/607 EXP: 365476 For next: 4971 Since: 03-15-04 From: Portland, OR Since last post: 73 days Last activity: 60 days |
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| Well, I wouldn't deny that our system may not work so well in other countries.. And Reagan subsequently raised taxes, IIRC. And I don't recall any new major social programs in the 80s.. most of the deficiet came from military expenditures, I think. If the electoral vote ties, it goes to the House, and Bush wins, as per the Constitution. There are intermediate possibilities, such as an elector switching his vote, or that some of the states which split their electoral votes somehow shuffling them around to favor a certain canidate.. I read an article on the various possibilities a few days back, but didn't pay much attention.. after all, it is a remote possibility. It would be bitter, but there would be a winner, like last time. And life goes on. And maybe there would finally be a public move against the EC. |
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alte Hexe Star Mario I dreamed I saw Joe Hill last night Alive as you and me "But Joe you're ten years dead!" "I never died" said he "I never died!" said he Level: 99  Posts: 1577/5458 EXP: 9854489 For next: 145511 Since: 03-15-04 From: ... Since last post: 2 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
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| Well, when a people have a belief system that is over 8000 years old, it is a little difficult to shrug off, neh? I wasn't bringing in Fundamentalism. I was taking into account basic democratic structures, such as Presidential Republics or Parliaments, or various other forms of said democratic structures. Again, in a PM structure, it really depends on the status of the government. Minority vs. Majority can really make a difference. If a majority government is in power then there is not much that opposition can do, but generally, they make deals behind closed doors in the shadow cabinets and caucuses with the leading party and have the backing of lobbyists. This generally sways the PMs head. Minority governments generally work the best, as long as it is a moderate party. If a hardline left or right party comes to power in minority, with the opposition from the moderates and the other side of the spectrum...Instant dissolution of Parliament and a new vote. But, if you have a crappy president with his party controlling congress and senate...It amounts to pretty much the same as a majority Parliament. And I'm going to stand by a statement I have believed for years. What works best for the people is what should stand. |
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hhallahh Bob-Omb Level: 38 Posts: 429/607 EXP: 365476 For next: 4971 Since: 03-15-04 From: Portland, OR Since last post: 73 days Last activity: 60 days |
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| It's (generally) true that you can't force new customs down a country's metaphorical throat, but it's also true that often a country's old customs are not well-adapted to running the rich, industrial economies based on free-markets and human rights that they wish to become... so the culture itself must be changed, which is most effectively done from top-down. If a country's culture inhibits its material prosperity... well, you can argue that that's okay, but you'd have to accept the fact that they're doomed to be poor, then. And that their culture is not "evolutionarily stable", so to speak, and will probably die anyways. | |||
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alte Hexe Star Mario I dreamed I saw Joe Hill last night Alive as you and me "But Joe you're ten years dead!" "I never died" said he "I never died!" said he Level: 99 Posts: 1582/5458 EXP: 9854489 For next: 145511 Since: 03-15-04 From: ... Since last post: 2 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
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| I don't know, Asian cultures are based around adoption and adaptation. The Japanese especially are relatively hardset in the older ways, so I'd say that your argument is entirely geographic. |
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| Acmlm's Board - I2 Archive - World Affairs / Debate - In the USA, should the electoral college be abolished? |
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