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| 0 user currently in World Affairs / Debate. |
| Acmlm's Board - I2 Archive - World Affairs / Debate - Should you keep somebody alive at all costs? |
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Tarale I'm not under the alfluence of incohol like some thinkle peop I am. It's just the drunker I sit here the longer I get.  Level: 73  Posts: 576/2720 EXP: 3458036 For next: 27832 Since: 03-18-04 From: Adelaide, Australia Since last post: 4 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
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| Should Courts have the power to let babies die? This isn't the original article I was looking for, but it's discussing the same topic. The child in the story, Charlotte, has lived her entire short life in pain, being resuscitated and revived pretty well daily for her whole little life. The doctors are sick of seeing her suffering, they don't think that the little baby deserves this pain, and they know that if Charlotte survives, she will always be a very, VERY sick little girl. The next time the child needs to be revived, they don't want to resuscitate her. The parents on the other hand, insist on the baby being kept alive. Now, my question is, do you think it's fair to impose "aggressive lifesaving" on a human being that is suffering? Do you think that lives must be saved at all costs, regardless of pain, etc? Or is saving a life in this manner just as much "playing god" as taking a life in the case of euthanasia? |
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Kefka Indefinitely Unbanned Level: 81 Posts: 2296/3392 EXP: 4826208 For next: 166641 Since: 03-15-04 From: Pomona, CALIFORNIA BABY! Since last post: 4 hours Last activity: 4 hours |
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| It sounds to me like this little girl must live in a hospital all the time, because she needs to be revived constantly. She will never be able to live in a home, it sounds like. She will never be able to breathe for any significant length of time. I have to go with the docs on this and say we should let her go before she has a chance to reason and know that she is essentially being given up on. As sad as it may be, it is better to do it then to have her suffer her whole life living in a hospital. What the hospital should do if they give up is give the parents a monetary compensation, as well as pay for a decent funeral. Btw, when was this forum finally added???? |
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Colleen Administrator Level: 136 Posts: 4673/11302 EXP: 29369328 For next: 727587 Since: 03-15-04 From: LaSalle, Quebec, Canada Since last post: 3 hours Last activity: 1 hour |
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| My understanding of the Canadian health care system is that the doctors/nurses have to do everything in their power to help someone who is suffering, be it a terminal or temporary illness. They can advise families as to what the best course of action might be, but they can't make the decision to stop treatment out of the blue. So my answer would be no. Advise a family that it might be a good idea to let the person die peacefully, yes. Take action themselves, no. |
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Tarale I'm not under the alfluence of incohol like some thinkle peop I am. It's just the drunker I sit here the longer I get. Level: 73 Posts: 581/2720 EXP: 3458036 For next: 27832 Since: 03-18-04 From: Adelaide, Australia Since last post: 4 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
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| See, personally I think it's a bit cruel to enforce "agressive lifesaving" on somebody. If somebody has been recuscitated every day for days, and days, in tremendous pain, and likely to come out of the whole thing seriously brain damaged, etc (as with this child), IF EVER, I kinda think it is selfish of the parents to insist that they keep the child alive. The child can't even speak for themselves, they don't get to say "next time, don't revive me" like an adult can. Instead they just get subjected to whatever the parents say the doctors have to do. The doctors can see how much pain the child is in, and that the child's chances of survival are pretty well nil.... but they have to keep reviving, over and over, and over, even though they know that the child is NEVER going to get better -- that this is what the kid's life is going to be, all their life. Sorry, I can't think of a better definition of the word "Hell" than that -- torment, and no end in sight (as long as they keep reviving her) Frankly, I think that there should be some kind of line. I wouldn't want to be kept alive if I was in incredible pain ALL the time, with absolutely NO chance of getting better... if my body was trying to die (several times a day, every day), I wouldn't want to keep having death delayed because my family say I have to live, no matter how horrible that existence is. I'd rather my suffering be ended. And as an adult, I have the right to request that too. But because this is a child who can't speak for themselves, she doesn't have the right to ask not to be revived -- she's at the whim of her parents. I think what the parents are doing is cruel, and selfish. I think the doctors know it, and they want the child to die as peacefully as possible. |
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Colleen Administrator Level: 136 Posts: 4681/11302 EXP: 29369328 For next: 727587 Since: 03-15-04 From: LaSalle, Quebec, Canada Since last post: 3 hours Last activity: 1 hour |
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| It might be selfish of them, but it *is* their choice. It's like if someone's on life support - eventually the plug has to be pulled, but maybe the family wants a little more time with the patient. Like I said, the doctors have every right to tell the parents "Look, she's not going to get any better, and her body can't take this much longer." The parents also have the right to say "We want our baby to live and we're willing to do whatever it takes." And that's understandable; they might know that there's little, if any hope, but at the same time they don't want to lose him/her. It's tough. |
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Apple Kodondo Level: 38 Posts: 448/594 EXP: 350163 For next: 20284 Since: 03-27-04 From: Washington. Since last post: 264 days Last activity: 152 days |
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| When my uncle and his (ex)wife lost their child when it was only a few weeks old, it hit them hard. Everyone I have ever meet who has lost a child have never really been the same afterwards regradless of the age of the child. So I can totally reason with the parents in the story. I understand the baby may never recover and may be ill her whole life and it'll probably be the best for the parents to pull the plug but on the otherside. Pulling the plug on your own child would make you feel like you killed your own child and/or failed as a parent. So I'm going to go with yes. You should keep someone alive at all costs UNLESS the person states otherwise. |
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Kitten Yiffer Purple wand Furry moderator Vivent l'exp����¯�¿�½������©rience de signalisation d'amusement, ou bien ! Level: 135 Posts: 5515/11162 EXP: 28824106 For next: 510899 Since: 03-15-04 From: Sweden Since last post: 3 hours Last activity: 4 min. |
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| I'm sort of for the "Keep them alive unless the person really REALLY wants to", but this person is so young and probably can't even speak. I'm not surprised if she was the only child thoose parents have. Personally I wouldn't stand my kid suffering so much, I probably would pull the cord if she was "constantly dying". And I think this kid is just gonna die early, soon whatever the parents want that or not... :/ Hell, whatever i'm for "Clinical murder" or whatever you call it, but only for the extreme cases where it's impossible. :/ |
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Ran-chan Moldorm eek, when are they going to stop growing... Level: 143  Posts: 4374/12781 EXP: 35293588 For next: 538220 Since: 03-15-04 From: Nerima District, Tokyo - Japan Since last post: 12 hours Last activity: 12 hours |
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| So the baby stops breathing every now and then whatever they do? That | |||
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Tarale I'm not under the alfluence of incohol like some thinkle peop I am. It's just the drunker I sit here the longer I get. Level: 73 Posts: 587/2720 EXP: 3458036 For next: 27832 Since: 03-18-04 From: Adelaide, Australia Since last post: 4 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
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| All the doctors want to do is.... the next time it happens, they don't revive her. Which, I think, considering the situation, is a fair thing to do. Sure, it's going to be very sad for the parents, but it'll also end the child's suffering. And while it'll be hard initially, I'd like to think that eventually the parents will be happy that their child died peacefully rather than suffering needlessly.... I'd hate not to be able to have a say in what happens if I were in the same situation. |
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Gavin Fuzzy Rhinoceruses don't play games. They fucking charge your ass. Level: 43  Posts: 247/799 EXP: 551711 For next: 13335 Since: 03-15-04 From: IL, USA Since last post: 13 hours Last activity: 13 hours |
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Originally posted by Colleen right-o. I don't think the courts should be able to have the power to condemn this child to death, it just shouldn't be their choice. Originally posted by Millennium Neko |
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Ran-chan Moldorm eek, when are they going to stop growing... Level: 143 Posts: 4375/12781 EXP: 35293588 For next: 538220 Since: 03-15-04 From: Nerima District, Tokyo - Japan Since last post: 12 hours Last activity: 12 hours |
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| I know that the parents care about their baby but...would you like to have a life like that? Always being at the hospital with a machine that helps you breathing. It doesn |
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Tarale I'm not under the alfluence of incohol like some thinkle peop I am. It's just the drunker I sit here the longer I get. Level: 73 Posts: 589/2720 EXP: 3458036 For next: 27832 Since: 03-18-04 From: Adelaide, Australia Since last post: 4 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
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| Okay, yes, it is the parent's LEGAL right... but the question is, should it be? Should there be some kind of line, some point at which the suffering of the person is too great, and with no gain... after which the doctors are able to make a judgement not to rescuscitate? Yes, I know that gives doctors the power to "play god" a little, but at the moment the parents get to play that a little too....if they're deciding whether that child lives or dies, that's exactly what they're doing.... I think there needs to maybe be some kind of middle ground... some kind of point where it's not fair to ask a human being to keep being subjected to the pain.... |
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Gavin Fuzzy Rhinoceruses don't play games. They fucking charge your ass. Level: 43 Posts: 249/799 EXP: 551711 For next: 13335 Since: 03-15-04 From: IL, USA Since last post: 13 hours Last activity: 13 hours |
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Originally posted by Millennium Neko |
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Kitten Yiffer Purple wand Furry moderator Vivent l'exp����¯�¿�½������©rience de signalisation d'amusement, ou bien ! Level: 135 Posts: 5519/11162 EXP: 28824106 For next: 510899 Since: 03-15-04 From: Sweden Since last post: 3 hours Last activity: 4 min. |
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At the same time, if they add any new laws. God forbid I hope they won't be abused in a way.  Wierd, with Animals there is no question. If they suffer people usually kill them becuse of morality reasons, but when humans suffer they have to suffer until their death becuse of  Doctors and scienties have since long time ago being accused for "playing god". Honestly aren't they playing god in a sense if they keep someone alive which should be dead if it wasn't for the help from the doctors?  |
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Ran-chan Moldorm eek, when are they going to stop growing... Level: 143 Posts: 4377/12781 EXP: 35293588 For next: 538220 Since: 03-15-04 From: Nerima District, Tokyo - Japan Since last post: 12 hours Last activity: 12 hours |
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| No...I don | |||
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Gavin Fuzzy Rhinoceruses don't play games. They fucking charge your ass. Level: 43 Posts: 250/799 EXP: 551711 For next: 13335 Since: 03-15-04 From: IL, USA Since last post: 13 hours Last activity: 13 hours |
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Originally posted by Kitten Yiffer it depends on the society and the creatures. If a gorilla mother senses that her offspring is in danger, it will place it out of reach and our of danger from a predatory attack. The natural course of action that would have followed if she had not intervened would have surely mean the death of the gorilla mother's offspring. Did she "play god" by interfering with the natural process? no. it's natural to protect and sustain one's own. |
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Tarale I'm not under the alfluence of incohol like some thinkle peop I am. It's just the drunker I sit here the longer I get. Level: 73 Posts: 590/2720 EXP: 3458036 For next: 27832 Since: 03-18-04 From: Adelaide, Australia Since last post: 4 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
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Originally posted by Gavin Ongoing, neverending pain, with no hope. |
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gnkkwinrrul Dry Bones Level: 39  Posts: 348/647 EXP: 402054 For next: 2717 Since: 03-15-04 From: LYKEOMGIMFROMSOMEPLACE???? Since last post: 81 days Last activity: 40 days |
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I think that she should be allowed to die...if the kid is really going through that much pain, it's just torture.  |
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MathOnNapkins Math n' Hacks Level: 67  Posts: 641/2189 EXP: 2495887 For next: 96985 Since: 03-18-04 From: Base Tourian Since last post: 1 hour Last activity: 32 min. |
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| Suffering is a part of life that people have to endure to survive. Everyone suffers in some way, or at least I would imagine so. This is not a matter of the child being "allowed to die." If I'm in intense pain, as I have been in before, I don't want to DIE. I want the pain to stop, not my life. Personally, I look at it as economics. If the parents are attached enough to their child that they are willing and capable to shovel out the dough to keep the kid alive, so be it. I don't think it's the doctor's choice. The doctor doesn't face the same direct emotional impact of losing that child that the parents will. If I was in that situation I would also consider whether there was any hope that my baby would somehow grow out of this condition. If money runs out as well as hope for the baby's future autonomy, he/she's dead meat. It's just the way it goes. |
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Apple Kodondo Level: 38 Posts: 450/594 EXP: 350163 For next: 20284 Since: 03-27-04 From: Washington. Since last post: 264 days Last activity: 152 days |
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| How would you feel if you told the parents to let their baby go and the next month or so, new technolgy comes out that would of been able to cure their child? |
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| Acmlm's Board - I2 Archive - World Affairs / Debate - Should you keep somebody alive at all costs? |
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