 |
| Register | Login | |||||
 |
Main
| Memberlist
| Active users
| ACS
| Commons
| Calendar
| Online users Ranks | FAQ | Color Chart | Photo album | IRC Chat |
|
| | ||
|
| Register | Login | |||||
|
Main
| Memberlist
| Active users
| ACS
| Commons
| Calendar
| Online users Ranks | FAQ | Color Chart | Photo album | IRC Chat |
|
| | ||
2 users currently in General Chat:  Dark Vampriel |
| Acmlm's Board - I2 Archive - General Chat - Gay Marriage (again) |
 |  |  |
| Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 | Add to favorites | "RSS" Feed | Next newer thread | Next older thread |
| User | Post | ||
Valentine Revolution Leever Level: 24  Posts: 57/199 EXP: 68616 For next: 9509 Since: 03-15-04 From: UK Since last post: 103 days Last activity: 59 days |
| ||
| I am a voter. The government has a certain right to fulfil my expectations of it. This month, the UN are going to vote on whether sexuality and gender identity should be added to the list of human rights. If it passes, then coupled with the existing human right to marry, it would be a violation of my basic human rights to disallow me to marry. | |||
|
Kefka Indefinitely Unbanned Level: 81 Posts: 195/3392 EXP: 4826208 For next: 166641 Since: 03-15-04 From: Pomona, CALIFORNIA BABY! Since last post: 4 hours Last activity: 4 hours |
| ||
Originally posted by geeogree Um, but you are forgetting, the entire nation is not voting for the amendment, Congress is. Although they are mostly Christian, most of them are liberal enough to realize "hey, I know a gay person or two, and I have nothing wrong with them." And it has to get 66% or more in each house. I could see it getting over 50%... but there are enough democrats (who are for the most part liberal) who will vote against it, and keep it from being passed. EDIT: even if it made it out of Congress, it would need 3/4 of the states votes, which WON'T happen, trust me. (edited by Mighty Kefka on 03-17-04 06:04 PM) |
|||
|
Kasumi-Astra Administrator Level: 62  Posts: 80/1867 EXP: 1971846 For next: 12840 Since: 03-15-04 From: Reading, UK Uni: Sheffield, UK Since last post: 1 day Last activity: 12 hours |
| ||
| The public can be divided into three parties. Pro gay marriage, against gay marriage, and those who do not care. It is popular belief that there are more people who support gay marriage than oppose it, as has been shown previously in this discussion. The religious activitists who oppose gay marriages are in support of removing the rights of other people which, in my opinion, constitutes as an extremist act of religion. (edited by Kasumi-Astra on 03-17-04 06:12 PM) |
|||
Imajin Buster Beetle Level: 34  Posts: 66/452 EXP: 234863 For next: 18788 Since: 03-15-04 From: Kingdom of Zeal Since last post: 39 days Last activity: 53 days |
| ||
Gays never had the right to marriage  Who's taking it away from you?Good news for anti-gay marriage people, MA passed the first step in getting a statewide anti-gay marriage admendment passed... |
|||
|
Kefka Indefinitely Unbanned Level: 81 Posts: 198/3392 EXP: 4826208 For next: 166641 Since: 03-15-04 From: Pomona, CALIFORNIA BABY! Since last post: 4 hours Last activity: 4 hours |
| ||
Originally posted by Kasumi-Astra Well, actually, a national poll shows more people being against it, which is why Kerry has decided to state he is against it, even though he's probably not (people won't vote based on that now). However, even with over 50% of the people being against it, due to religious reasons or whatever, there will not be 75% of the states voting for this amendment, if it ever got that far. Maybe over 50% of the states, if that. But I doubt the amendment will even make it to the states. EDIT: Imajin, it would be taking away her right as a citizen of the United States to have a civil union with someone she loved. (edited by Mighty Kefka on 03-17-04 06:17 PM) |
|||
|
Valentine Revolution Leever Level: 24 Posts: 59/199 EXP: 68616 For next: 9509 Since: 03-15-04 From: UK Since last post: 103 days Last activity: 59 days |
| ||
| I have the right to marriage. Its as simple as that. And using gender to allow or disallow it is sexism at the very least. And we're UKbies.... but it is still an issue over here, and like it or not, whatever the US does we end up copying  (edited by Lucrecia Barton on 03-17-04 06:20 PM) |
|||
|
Kefka Indefinitely Unbanned Level: 81 Posts: 200/3392 EXP: 4826208 For next: 166641 Since: 03-15-04 From: Pomona, CALIFORNIA BABY! Since last post: 4 hours Last activity: 4 hours |
| ||
| Oh well, then I will change my last statement: Perhaps in the UK, people are in favor of gay marriage. In the U.S.A, most people are against it. I'm all for it though, if you can't tell from my other posts. EDIT: 200th POST! WOOOOOOOOH! (edited by Mighty Kefka on 03-17-04 06:24 PM) |
|||
|
Kasumi-Astra Administrator Level: 62 Posts: 82/1867 EXP: 1971846 For next: 12840 Since: 03-15-04 From: Reading, UK Uni: Sheffield, UK Since last post: 1 day Last activity: 12 hours |
| ||
| Precisely. There is no stronger right than a human right, which activists believe should be taken away from me. Luckily for me, my government is in the process of rectifying this. As is most of Europe, and western nations who oppose it are in the minority. |
|||
Prier Archangel Administrative Priestess. NUCLEAR SUB WEEEOOOO Level: 119  Posts: 36/8392 EXP: 18790939 For next: 138352 Since: 03-15-04 From: Nerima Dist. - Tokyo, Japan Since last post: 1 day Last activity: 1 day |
| ||
Originally posted by Flying Goomba That literally summed up the idiocy of this thread. |
|||
Jarukoth  IRRATIONAL EXUBERENCE!!1! Level: 79  Posts: 20/3194 EXP: 4402011 For next: 177456 Since: 03-17-04 From: New Jersey, U.S.A. Shoes: Yes. Since last post: 8 days Last activity: 1 day |
| ||
| As both a christian and a heterosexual male, I personally disagree with gay marriage strongly. However, I also believe that forcing your beliefs on others is also wrong. If the gay wish to wed, I cannot stop them. As said previously, everyone is responsible for thier own behavior, for better or for worse. |
|||
|
Imajin Buster Beetle Level: 34 Posts: 68/452 EXP: 234863 For next: 18788 Since: 03-15-04 From: Kingdom of Zeal Since last post: 39 days Last activity: 53 days |
| ||
Originally posted by Mighty Kefka I'm all for letting her have a civil union... Just not a marriage |
|||
|
Kefka Indefinitely Unbanned Level: 81 Posts: 209/3392 EXP: 4826208 For next: 166641 Since: 03-15-04 From: Pomona, CALIFORNIA BABY! Since last post: 4 hours Last activity: 4 hours |
| ||
Originally posted by ImajinOriginally posted by Mighty Kefka Well, that's the church's choice, not the state/country's. They're deciding whether they get a civil union, not "marriage" |
|||
kiwibonga Double metal axe Level: 27  Posts: 6/266 EXP: 106040 For next: 10119 Since: 03-15-04 From: Montreal, QC, Canada Since last post: 126 days Last activity: 3 days |
| ||
| So by the anti-gay-marriage opinion, two people of the same sex must remain boyfriend-girlfriend their whole life? There's no way to make it final and they'll always be regarded as "single" legally speaking. I think that's not only horribly selfish, it's also conservative and naive. If two people love each other and want to spend the rest of their life together, let them get married, whether they can procreate or not, whether they adopt a child or not. It doesn't matter because marriage is not something that should be taken this seriously, it is a label, it indicates the alliance between two people. AND EXCUSE ME BUT WHAT IS THIS I HEAR ABOUT DIVORCE RATES?? 50%? You think people take marriage seriously?? Pardon my language but that's a load of bullshit. Faith in marriage has already hit an all time low, I don't even see why people complain about gay marriage -- it'll probably make the divorce rate go down for all I care. Anyhow, just like VN I think there should be an alternative to marriage, a civil contract of engagement of some sort, like we have in european countries -- and the only reason it exists is to prevent gay-bashing shitheads from protesting. On TV, I saw a group of christians singing in front of a city hall in which gay people were getting married. I wanted to say only one thing to them: GET THE FUCK OFF THE CITY HALL AND GO TO CHURCH, THIS IS NOT YOUR PLACE TO BE. And finally... Gay marriage is not decadence, it's progress. PROGRESS. What I'd like to see is a more accepting society, not people who say "this should stay the same because it was made that way, if it ain't broke don't fix it" |
|||
|
Kefka Indefinitely Unbanned Level: 81 Posts: 212/3392 EXP: 4826208 For next: 166641 Since: 03-15-04 From: Pomona, CALIFORNIA BABY! Since last post: 4 hours Last activity: 4 hours |
| ||
| Well, Kiwi, I too would like to think our society will become more accepting of others. However, there will ALWAYS be those on the far right that don't want gays married. And no matter how far our society progresses, I don't think polygamy's coming back. Well, if religion is the only basis for an argument in a state issue, then it should be dropped out of the issue. |
|||
drjayphd Beamos What's that spell? pimp! Level: 56  Posts: 33/1477 EXP: 1387410 For next: 10766 Since: 03-15-04 From: CT Since last post: 2 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
| ||
| Christian nation? (bzzt) Find where the Constitution says that Christianity is the official religion of the US. You won't. You'll find an establishment clause, though. Majority rules? I'm calling shenanigans on that too. The reason why it's so hard to amend the Constitution is to protect the minority from the whims of the majority. Look at Prohibition. The majority pushed for it. However, it was recognized as pure idiocy, and tossed out the window. Majority rules was never the rule. Nor should it be, and this is why. |
|||
|
Vystrix Nexoth Level: 30 Posts: 37/348 EXP: 158678 For next: 7191 Since: 03-15-04 From: somewhere between anima and animus Since last post: 3 days Last activity: 2 days |
| ||
some points I'd like to make concerning this debate:
and some arguments:
(edited by Vystrix Nexoth on 03-17-04 10:41 PM) (edited by Vystrix Nexoth on 03-17-04 10:44 PM) |
|||
Arwon Zora Level: 35  Posts: 9/506 EXP: 278115 For next: 1821 Since: 03-15-04 From: Terra Australis Incognita Since last post: 5 hours Last activity: 10 min. |
| ||
| -Taxation -Divorce protections -Automatic inheritance rights -Visitation of partner in hospital or prison -Visitation of partner's children in hospital or prison -Immunity from testifying against spouse -Domestic violence protection -Immigration -Joint custody -Joint adoption and foster care of existing children of the parties -Joint parenting -Joint insurance -Medical decisions on behalf of partner -Medical insurance family coverage -Sick leave to care for partner -Bereavement leave -Wrongful death benefits -Burial determination -Assumption of spouse's pension -Access to partner's superannuation This is the inequality, here. This is the discrimination, here. This is where the horrible discriminatory things happen to gay couples - not being allowed access to their lovers in hospital because the state doesn't recognise them as having any link to them. Parents over-ruling the wishes of a hospitalised or dead partner becuase they don't have "next of kin" status. Lack of access to joint taxation and insurance, inability to take joint custody of existing children. Any sensible person must be able to see that these things are not right. This is the nuts and bolts of why we need gay marirage or civil unions. So people like Kasumi and Lucrecia can, if they choose, enter into a binding partnership with these benefits and responsibilities. For security, and permenance, and for legal recognistion. And because, dammit, it's fair and right. The cultural "it's destroying marriage" stuff... the "marriage is a sacred institution" stuff, and the Christian "homosexuality is a sin" stuff... all these things are secondary and unimportant to the core issues at stake here. These other issues are irrelevant. We're talking about the functioning of secular states and their legal systems here, nothing more. Christianity is IRRELEVANT. Ickiness is IRRELEVANT. No-one is asking churches to recognise gays as equals. Some do, some don't. That's their perogative as institutions functioning outside the State. No-one is asking anyone in the Christian Right to throw big parades celebrating gay marriages, or expecting that people will stop viewing gay sex as ICKY. These other things are IRRELEVANT. The prime goal is to secure equality in these above listed areas and other similar ones - to get rid of discrimination, and to stop people being treated as second class citizens for such a silly reason as genetalia. (edited by Arwon on 03-17-04 11:23 PM) |
|||
|
Legion banning people for no reason sure is fun Level: 101  Posts: 125/5657 EXP: 10399737 For next: 317938 Since: 03-15-04 From: The Crossroads is under attack! Since last post: 5 days Last activity: 5 days |
| ||
Originally posted by Kasumi-Astra Translation: "I don't give a fuck about your views but on the other hand, you should give a fuck about mine because mine are more important than yours." You want to talk about discrimination? Ha! You wish me to stop talking about religion in a topic about something that was CREATED by religion? Sorry, but that's not going to happen. I've done nothing wrong and you know it. You don't like what I had to say and this is not the way to deal with it. I.E. running away from it and not wanting to talk about it. I put forward my views as a religious man and I have every right to. I don't tell you to stop talking about homosexuality just because I'm not a homosexual now do I? Defend your lover? From what?! Show me where I personally attacked her. "as kasumi said, christian law is irrelevant to non-christians. trying to use the bible to shoot down a pro-gay-marriage argument by a non-christian, is like trying to literally shoot someone by aiming at a picture on them on the computer screen." I agree. But it works BOTH ways. You forgot to add that. drjay: "If you're against it because you're a Christian: Why?" Because it's a sin and taking something holy and turning it into a mockery of God. "Do you do everything a religious leader tells you to?" Religious leader? No. God? Yes. That one guy: "However, I also believe that forcing your beliefs on others is also wrong. If the gay wish to wed, I cannot stop them. As said previously, everyone is responsible for thier own behavior, for better or for worse." Exactly. I think people take WORDS on a message board as if they're going to have some profound impact on the way things will turn out. I merely expressed my opinions/views/beliefs. If that isn't welcome at this board, then why do we have threads like this in the first place. It seems as if some people want "everything our way or nothing at all." (edited by Legion on 03-17-04 11:35 PM) (edited by Legion on 03-17-04 11:46 PM) (edited by Legion on 03-17-04 11:51 PM) |
|||
|
Vystrix Nexoth Level: 30 Posts: 38/348 EXP: 158678 For next: 7191 Since: 03-15-04 From: somewhere between anima and animus Since last post: 3 days Last activity: 2 days |
| ||
| well, she's not trying to make you, as a christian (or as a person in general), accept homosexuality. she's trying to make you agree with a change in law to allow same-sex marriage. the topic is about law, not religion. so leave religion out of it. |
|||
|
Legion banning people for no reason sure is fun Level: 101 Posts: 127/5657 EXP: 10399737 For next: 317938 Since: 03-15-04 From: The Crossroads is under attack! Since last post: 5 days Last activity: 5 days |
| ||
| No, the topic is not about law, it's about Gay Marriage. And the two subtopics that go into it are religion and the law. Two things that both clash with each other on a frequent basis. If I'm to leave religion out of it, then I would expect you to leave law out of it too. Then we would end up with nothing. You can't remove one without the other. And I already said that I wouldn't be against civil unions but apparently that STILL makes me a hate-monger. Pssh, I have homosexual friends myself so I don't want people thinking I'm a homophobe because I'm not. |
| Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 | Add to favorites | "RSS" Feed | Next newer thread | Next older thread |
| Acmlm's Board - I2 Archive - General Chat - Gay Marriage (again) |
| | |
