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| Acmlm's Board - I2 Archive - General Chat - Gay Marriage (again) |
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Vystrix Nexoth Level: 30 Posts: 29/348 EXP: 158678 For next: 7191 Since: 03-15-04 From: somewhere between anima and animus Since last post: 3 days Last activity: 2 days |
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| heh. well, this was a more-or-less active thread on the old board at the time of its demise. a recent news blurb on TV prompted me to re-create this thread. turns out that Oregon is gradually allowing same-sex marriages. earlier this month, Multnomah county (in which Portland is located) started issuing same-sex marriage licenses; now Benton county (in which Corvallis is located) has voted to do the same, and will start issuing the licences later this month (26th or so). this is totally cool. *proud to be an Oregonian during this time*  |
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Legion banning people for no reason sure is fun Level: 101  Posts: 97/5657 EXP: 10399737 For next: 317938 Since: 03-15-04 From: The Crossroads is under attack! Since last post: 5 days Last activity: 5 days |
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| Well, from my own personal beliefs, I'm against it. At one point, I was for it but I've done a lot of research and thinking since then. Studies have been done in the countries that allow these types of marriages and it has cause the 'straight' people to take marriage at even a less value then it is. So people aren't even bothering getting married. Just living together and having kids and going from one relationship to another. As you probably know the divorce rate in America is 50% which is really bad...and will get much much worse if this is allowed. If we stand idly by and watch such laws put into place, the next thing that will come along is laws to allow adults to marry children, and other such horrid things. |
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Legolas Red Paragoomba Level: 13  Posts: 46/50 EXP: 8639 For next: 1628 Since: 03-15-04 From: USA Since last post: 595 days Last activity: 251 days |
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| Yeah, I have to agree with Legion on that. I just don't think same sex couples should be allowed to wed. Of course this is based on my religious beliefs. I don't have any hatred for same sex couples or anything; I just don't believe they should be allowed to get married. | |||
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Vystrix Nexoth Level: 30 Posts: 30/348 EXP: 158678 For next: 7191 Since: 03-15-04 From: somewhere between anima and animus Since last post: 3 days Last activity: 2 days |
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| you're right. next thing you know you can marry a ROCK! a ROCK, I say! and people will stop believing in God (edited by Vystrix Nexoth on 03-17-04 03:20 AM) |
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Legion banning people for no reason sure is fun Level: 101 Posts: 98/5657 EXP: 10399737 For next: 317938 Since: 03-15-04 From: The Crossroads is under attack! Since last post: 5 days Last activity: 5 days |
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| "50 years from now, no one of any importance will even bat an eyelash at the concept of same-sex marriage." And that's sad really. That is, the path we're on. What in 100 years? Murder is legal? "stop trying to associate same-sex marriage with something completely different and irrelevant. Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean it doesn't apply and it's irrelevant. You heard something you didn't like, thus you're trying to get rid of it as quickly as possible. Doesn't work that way. My point was just and holds much weight. "also note that allowing gay marriages does not somehow *ban* *straight* marriages. it will not affect it at all." Oh really now? Besides lessening the meaning of marriage in the first place? That is, the holy union between a man and a woman. By allowing the marriage of same genders, you LESSEN the meaning of marriage. You take away from it. "the feelings of emotional/sexual security of closed-minded people is a small price to pay to bring the human race as a whole a little closer together by erasing some of the lines drawn in the sand." Bringing the human nature closer together by going AGAINST the laws of nature? Heh, try explaining that one to me. If you can. |
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Vystrix Nexoth Level: 30 Posts: 31/348 EXP: 158678 For next: 7191 Since: 03-15-04 From: somewhere between anima and animus Since last post: 3 days Last activity: 2 days |
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| And that's sad really. That is, the path we're on. What in 100 years? Murder is legal? I told you to look up "snowball theory". do so. go look it up, search online, something. Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean it doesn't apply and it's irrelevant. You heard something you didn't like, thus you're trying to get rid of it as quickly as possible. Doesn't work that way. My point was just and holds much weight. conversely: you don't like the idea of gay marriage, so you try to heap as many other things you don't like on top of it and offer them as a comparison to, or, following the snowball theory, eventual result thereof. when certain states/counties/countries/whatever start allowing adult-child/parent-child/living-dead/human-animal/whatever-whatever marriages, then they're relevant. but, alas, they are no more relevant than is the price of tea in china. Oh really now? Besides lessening the meaning of marriage in the first place? That is, the holy union between a man and a woman. By allowing the marriage of same genders, you LESSEN the meaning of marriage. You take away from it. now you're going by the religious idea of marriage. I'm going by the legal definition. "separation of church and state" ring a bell? (although it would be nice if that were actually enforced... but that, in itself, is a different debate for a different day). personally, I don't really care whether the church recognizes same-sex marriages or not. besides, if same-sex marriages are recognized in the eyes of the law, then the church doesn't have to recognize same-sex marriages... the law will. Bringing the human nature closer together by going AGAINST the laws of nature? Heh, try explaining that one to me. If you can. I acknowledge that same-sex couples are not strictly natural. neither are computers. I don't see you complaining. besides, it's society being brought together... and society revolves around what humans do, not just what they are supposed to do. (edited by Vystrix Nexoth on 03-17-04 03:32 AM) |
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Legion banning people for no reason sure is fun Level: 101 Posts: 100/5657 EXP: 10399737 For next: 317938 Since: 03-15-04 From: The Crossroads is under attack! Since last post: 5 days Last activity: 5 days |
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| "conversely: you don't like the idea of gay marriage, so you try to heap as many other things you don't like on top of it and offer them as a comparison to, or, following the snowball theory, eventual result thereof." First off, find where where I say I don't like the idea. I said I was against it. There's a difference. Snowball theory or not, my point was valid. People are getting worse and worse. No one can deny that. This whole new "wave" of different lifestyles is being more and more accepted just because it's being pushed against us so much that people have no choice but to accept it. Thus, the idea of gay-marriages is being considered "Ok" by many. "now you're going by the religious idea of marriage. I'm going by the legal definition." Um, I'm not sure if you knew this or not but the legal definition of marriage IS the union of a MAN and a WOMAN. Seperation of chruch and state has nothing to do with this arguement. It's what the law says. "I acknowledge that same-sex couples are not strictly natural. neither are computers. I don't see you complaining" Apples and oranges my friend. Apples and oranges. "besides, it's society being brought together..." It's actually more of society deteriorating by defying the definition of marriage. People are doing whatever they want these days. Does that make it right? Of course it doesn't. "and society revolves around what humans do, not just what they are supposed to do." Exactly, and with things such as this, we're throwing ourselves into utter chaos. This is only the beginning. Did you know there is actually a movement for marriage of minors to adults? I forget what the organization was called. Something like "Men for Boys" or something. If homosexual marriages are legal, then things like this are next. And it will get progressively worse and worse until people start declaring their love for goats, cars, and whatever wacky relationships people have. We are systematically destroying the sacred meaning and definition of marriage whether you agree or not. (Both God's definition AND the law's. Doesn't matter which way you look at it.) |
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Vystrix Nexoth Level: 30 Posts: 32/348 EXP: 158678 For next: 7191 Since: 03-15-04 From: somewhere between anima and animus Since last post: 3 days Last activity: 2 days |
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| First off, find where where I say I don't like the idea. oh, only the hundred times or so* you've said that, basically, same-sex marriage is an insult to conventional, opposite-sex marriage, and will, inevitably, result in adult-child marriages human-goat marriages and murder and burnination and all those other cute and cuddly things. I'm assuming that you don't like the idea of legalizing murder, or adult-child or human-goat marriages, of course. (for the record, neither do I). so having you associate gay marriage with these things has placed me under the impression that you don't like gay marriage. go figure. * yes, hyperbole: I don't mean literally a hundred times or so. I said I was against it. that too. There's a difference. aye, but the difference is moot, as from what I can see, you both dislike and are against the idea of gay marriage. People are getting worse and worse. No one can deny that. This whole new "wave" of different lifestyles is being more and more accepted just because it's being pushed against us so much that people have no choice but to accept it. Thus, the idea of gay-marriages is being considered "Ok" by many. first, no, I do not deny that people are getting worse and worse. second, consider this: 1) people are getting worse and worse 2) people are becoming more open to the idea of same-sex marriage. that's obviously not coincidental. and also, obviously, the idea of same-sex marriage is something that's bad. a good (vs. evil) person who fancies members of the same sex? surely not! (not to say that all homosexuals are good people. good/evil and straight/gay are independent things) Um, I'm not sure if you knew this or not but the legal definition of marriage IS the union of a MAN and a WOMAN. well, that's kind of the whole point to this thread: that that definition is starting to change. Apples and oranges my friend. Apples and oranges. ok. then is it natural to sit at your computer and stare at the screen instead of being out doing the whole hunter-gatherer thing? (hmm... people used to do that, and we're not doing it anymore, and also, people are getting worse. so it must be bad. moving on...) It's actually more of society deteriorating by defying the definition of marriage. People are doing whatever they want these days. Does that make it right? Of course it doesn't. doesn't necessarily make it wrong either. pop quiz: is love between two consenting non-blood-related living adults inherently wrong? oops, turns out they have the same hardware, which obviously is more important than who they are as people and the thoughts and feelings they share with/for one another. Exactly, and with things such as this, we're throwing ourselves into utter chaos. This is only the beginning. Did you know there is actually a movement for marriage of minors to adults? I forget what the organization was called. Something like "Men for Boys" or something. If homosexual marriages are legal, then things like this are next. And it will get progressively worse and worse until people start declaring their love for goats, cars, and whatever wacky relationships people have. people have been involved in homosexual relationships since recorded history, and probably before that too. and just now laws are starting to be made. BTW, if people are getting worse (which obviously coincides with the increased awareness of homosexuality), but homosexuality has been around for a long time (including back in the past when society was better than it is now), maybe it has nothing to do with the world getting worse? fancy that. We are systematically destroying the sacred meaning and definition of marriage whether you agree or not. (Both God's definition AND the law's. Doesn't matter which way you look at it.) again, I leave the religious side of the argument to others who are interested in it. and "sacred" is not a term I've heard applied to any law yet, seeing as it's inherently a religious term. again (again), I'm arguing from the legal standpoint, not the religious one. I doubt the church will recognize same-sex marriages anytime soon, but I'm not particularly worried about that. I live without religion (does that make me bad?), so church law concerning lifestyles is irrelevant to me, directly anyway. (edited by Vystrix Nexoth on 03-17-04 04:19 AM) |
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FreeDOS Lava Lotus Wannabe-Mod :< Level: 59 Posts: 88/1657 EXP: 1648646 For next: 24482 Since: 03-15-04 From: Seattle Since last post: 6 hours Last activity: 4 hours |
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| Legion's said everything that I would say... His point of view on it appears to be the same as mine. |
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Legion banning people for no reason sure is fun Level: 101 Posts: 101/5657 EXP: 10399737 For next: 317938 Since: 03-15-04 From: The Crossroads is under attack! Since last post: 5 days Last activity: 5 days |
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| Well, we could argue about this back and forth until the cows come home but more than likely, it's not going to get us anywhere. Our views are from two different worlds. In my eyes (and other Christian/Catholics), homosexuality is an abomination of God and same sex marriages not only encourages it's sinfulness, but also goes against the meaning (spiritual meaning) of marriage itself. Now you on the other hand don't share the same views as me thus it doesn't apply to you. You don't live the same lifestyle as me. I'm held to different standards than you are. And when it comes down to it, it's hard to argue because both of us are set in our ways. So for now, I'm just going to let other people say what they will before I get back to this thread. |
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Vystrix Nexoth Level: 30 Posts: 33/348 EXP: 158678 For next: 7191 Since: 03-15-04 From: somewhere between anima and animus Since last post: 3 days Last activity: 2 days |
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| agreed. | |||
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FreeDOS Lava Lotus Wannabe-Mod :< Level: 59 Posts: 91/1657 EXP: 1648646 For next: 24482 Since: 03-15-04 From: Seattle Since last post: 6 hours Last activity: 4 hours |
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Originally posted by Legion In my eyes (and other Christian/Catholics), homosexuality is an abomination of God and same sex marriages not only encourages it's sinfulness, but also goes against the meaning (spiritual meaning) of marriage itself. I'm Christian, and that's probably one of the main reasons I wholeheartedly agree with you. |
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Lenophis Super Koopa Level: 44  Posts: 10/830 EXP: 584360 For next: 26925 Since: 03-15-04 From: Duluth, MN Since last post: 4 hours Last activity: 3 hours |
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| To the first matter of business, go Oregon! To all of those who oppose it on the religious method, your claim IS legit. Does that sound right? No. But it is, and this is why... (read BEFORE you flame.) The Catholic belief is what started marriage in the first place. Now, 400 some-odd years after it's initiation, the "big gay bully" is trying to steal the Catholics milk money. But as the case with all bully's, they DO NOT GO AWAY! Bully's will continue to bully others until the end of time. Now it's a different fight. So when President Bush says he wants to preserve the "sanctity of marriage," he's not on crack. He speaks from his heart, because he wants to save something that Christians made that he happens to believe in. Based on that alone, go Bush. Fight for what ya believe in. There's just one tiny problem. It's called the "United States Constitution." There's this tiny amendment that states "the seperation of church and state." True, pretty much every law the US has is based on religion, no matter how miniscule the effect. Originally posted by Legion Studies have been done in the countries that allow these types of marriages and it has cause the 'straight' people to take marriage at even a less value then it is. So people aren't even bothering getting married. Just living together and having kids and going from one relationship to another. As you probably know the divorce rate in America is 50% which is really bad...and will get much much worse if this is allowed. Ehhh, there's a couple holes in this... 1. Those "studies," did they have ANY other factors for the declining "value" of marriage? I'll give a couple, gold diggers, pre-nups, age. 2. "Value." Marriage is not materialistic. It is a label, attached to you signifying that you are together with another person as a union. 3. The divorce rate, that looks right, but go back to number 1. But you have to realize, people get divorced for stupid reaons too. You CAN'T blame divorce squarely on one reason, no matter how much you are against it. Originally posted by Legion And that's sad really. That is, the path we're on. What in 100 years? Murder is legal? The only way you could possibly associate murder with gay marriage is if you think that gay marriage is actually killing marriage. As you have said Legion, apples and oranges. If you want to get "super technical," marriage was defined by religion. Constitution requires the two be seperate. The government regulates marriage, therefore, going all the way back to 1776 marriage has been unconsitutional. I base this solely on the religious tie of marriage. Am I wrong? Originally posted by Legion We are systematically destroying the sacred meaning and definition of marriage whether you agree or not. (Both God's definition AND the law's. Doesn't matter which way you look at it.) I agree. But guess what, it doesn't matter. I look at the first three words in parenthesis, and that's all I need. It is said that you should not let your emotions cloud your judgement. To do so would mean you act irrational and illogical. If you are against gay marriage, fine. Give me an argument that does not involve you throwing the bible at me. If you cannot, legally, your argument will not hold. |
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Legion banning people for no reason sure is fun Level: 101 Posts: 104/5657 EXP: 10399737 For next: 317938 Since: 03-15-04 From: The Crossroads is under attack! Since last post: 5 days Last activity: 5 days |
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| "Give me an argument that does not involve you throwing the bible at me. If you cannot, legally, your argument will not hold." Again, I point you to the LEGAL definition of marriage. "The only way you could possibly associate murder with gay marriage is if you think that gay marriage is actually killing marriage." You make it sound as if I actually compared the concept of marriage and murder to make it look like it was closely related. Way to go!  I was giving an example. The path we're on now, the "let's do all kinds of crazy shit and make all kinds of crazy rules" is starting to get on a huge roll. This is just the beginning. Who knows where it's going to end up? I could make an arguement about how bestiality should be legal. But does that make it right? "If you want to get "super technical," marriage was defined by religion." Thus the church should regulate the definition/rules of it as well. The only thing the government should have to do with marriage is tax/legal rights etc... "It is said that you should not let your emotions cloud your judgement. To do so would mean you act irrational and illogical." Yeah, tell me about it. Those words actually help my case. So I guess I owe you a debt of gratitude."If you are against gay marriage, fine. Give me an argument that does not involve you throwing the bible at me." Already did actually. You just don't choose to accept it. Not my fault. |
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Vystrix Nexoth Level: 30 Posts: 34/348 EXP: 158678 For next: 7191 Since: 03-15-04 From: somewhere between anima and animus Since last post: 3 days Last activity: 2 days |
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| well, I'm still for the idea of leaving "marriage" for the churches, and in the legal sense of the word, changing it to "civil union". so a typical opposite-sex marriage would be 'marriage' according to the church and 'civil union' according to the law, and a typical same-sex marriage would not be a marriage in the eyes of the church, but would still be a civil union (in the law) just the same as for an opposite-sex couple. and, if I may say so, legion, it sounds like you have little faith in humanity. there are still many good people out there. it can't be completely good, it can't be completely bad; it always balances itself out. that's my belief, anyway. |
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Legion banning people for no reason sure is fun Level: 101 Posts: 107/5657 EXP: 10399737 For next: 317938 Since: 03-15-04 From: The Crossroads is under attack! Since last post: 5 days Last activity: 5 days |
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| "well, I'm still for the idea of leaving "marriage" for the churches, and in the legal sense of the word, changing it to "civil union". so a typical opposite-sex marriage would be 'marriage' according to the church and 'civil union' according to the law, and a typical same-sex marriage would not be a marriage in the eyes of the church, but would still be a civil union (in the law) just the same as for an opposite-sex couple." Arg, in my haste, I forgot to say this as well. I agree with what you've said up there. "and, if I may say so, legion, it sounds like you have little faith in humanity. there are still many good people out there. it can't be completely good, it can't be completely bad; it always balances itself out. that's my belief, anyway." It has nothing to do with my faith in humanity. It has everything to do with my God and my religious beliefs. I may come off as being closed minded but this is the way I have chosen to live my life. It's not as if I think I'm better or held in higher regards with my creator than homosexuals because I'm most certainly not. I'm not an elitist either. If I ever come off as sounding superior-like then let me know because that's not what I'm after. |
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Vystrix Nexoth Level: 30 Posts: 35/348 EXP: 158678 For next: 7191 Since: 03-15-04 From: somewhere between anima and animus Since last post: 3 days Last activity: 2 days |
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| no, that's not what I meant. I meant, during our exchanges, I kept getting this "the world's going to hell" vibe from you: people are getting progressively worse/more evil/etc. | |||
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Legion banning people for no reason sure is fun Level: 101 Posts: 108/5657 EXP: 10399737 For next: 317938 Since: 03-15-04 From: The Crossroads is under attack! Since last post: 5 days Last activity: 5 days |
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| Oh... Well, no. That's not exactly what I meant. People aren't really getting worse per se. We've always had this same nature about us. What I was trying to say was that people are trying to take things that are wrong, and put them into a positive light trying to make them right. |
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Arwon Zora Level: 35  Posts: 5/506 EXP: 278115 For next: 1821 Since: 03-15-04 From: Terra Australis Incognita Since last post: 5 hours Last activity: 10 min. |
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| How the hell is homosexuality "Against the laws of nature" when it's been found all over the animal kingdom? There's Gay goose couples and lifelong same sex penguin partnerships and all sorts of boy-on-boy buttsex! And as for Christianity finding it an abommination... doesn't the bible say in the Book of Numbers "Nothing I have created is unclean"? (edited by Arwon on 03-17-04 06:12 AM) |
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Flying Goomba Newcomer Level: 4  Posts: 2/4 EXP: 195 For next: 84 Since: 03-17-04 From: Goomba Since last post: 595 days Last activity: 339 days |
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| it's sick, that's all. yuck! it gets me sick just saying it. (* throws up *) |
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