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1 user currently in Super Mario World hacking:  labmaster |
| Acmlm's Board - I2 Archive - Super Mario World hacking - Is the creation of Lunar Magic a good thing? |
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Read the title.| Many people complain that the creation of Lunar Magic is the cause for the lack of good SMW hacks. | Lunar Magic was a big mistake! |
8.1%, 3 votes | Lunar Magic was what the SMW community really needed! |
81.1%, 30 votes | Lunar Magic? Is a brand of shoes? |
10.8%, 4 votes | Multi-voting is disabled.
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cpubasic13 17 years old now. Time to buy some M rated games by myself! Level: 54  Posts: 314/1346 EXP: 1206934 For next: 26936 Since: 03-15-04 From: Blame my parents, Eddy Since last post: 2 days Last activity: 1 day |
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| I used that so-called editor and it just doesn't do anything. You make a level, you test it with a crappy interface, etc... It isn't LM's fault for the crappy hacks. It is the person behind the hacks who did it. Sure, some of the newbies start out with a really crappy hack (My first hack was Mario's Fun Levels and I didn't like the fact I didn't know how to edit the graphics). Soon they make an even better hack that makes people play it. Look at chris' hack. The one demo he released was really crappy... actually crap... but now if you look at it, it looks a whole lot better. It is just about learning the interface and features to make a good hack. Of course, if you don't like these newbies, you can always beg Fu to remove the link to these fourms on his site. That is how people usually come here. |
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Deleted User Banned Level: 8 Posts: 7/12 EXP: 1736 For next: 451 Since: 01-23-01 Since last post: 13089 days Last activity: 21 days |
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| It's not that Lunar Magic sucks, it's that most of the SMW hackers suck. It is so easy to use that friggin editor that anyone who has an IQ of 50 or higher now thinks they have the right to go off making some hack. | |||
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Surlent サーレント Level: 49  Posts: 374/1077 EXP: 863920 For next: 19963 Since: 03-15-04 From: Tower of Lezard Valeth Since last post: 16 hours Last activity: 1 hour |
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| So you'd limit the usage to people who have serious knowledge in ROM hacking only ... But on the other hand, the editor is too easy to use for a professional ROM hacker; this doesn't maske sense  ?As for me, I don't hack anymore since a very long time; due to laziness and losing motivation (also in designing a RM2k game beforehand; today only playing and rating them  ), but usually it is a masterpiece of editor.Not just for Super Mario World, but its GUI easily wipes out any other ROM editor; let's compare it with Hyrule Magic. Despite the fact that HM is a fully another editor, its GUI ist nice, but harder to use and less good organzied than LM (like the tree map structure, the order of dungeon maps etc.). Plus extra "add-ons" like the Block Inserter tool, the Animated Tile editor and pure ASM hacking, most of the people can invent their own ideas and nearly everything; with Blocktool you won't even eed ASM hacking skills, since a mass of really useful blocks is already included and very easy to put inside your hack  |
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hhallahh Bob-Omb Level: 38  Posts: 279/607 EXP: 365476 For next: 4971 Since: 03-15-04 From: Portland, OR Since last post: 73 days Last activity: 60 days |
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| Well, I remember getting in a huge argument with DahrkDaiz over a similar topic. I'll just say that it's undoubtedly a good thing... people bitch that it enables poor designers to make crappy hacks, but so what? It also enables good designers to make good hacks without having to have a shitload of technical expertise. It's (kinda) like saying that the calculator was a bad invention because it enables stupid people to do math. | |||
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FuSoYa Defender of Relm Level: 26  Posts: 74/255 EXP: 99529 For next: 2746 Since: 03-15-04 From: Moon Since last post: 7 days Last activity: 7 hours |
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Originally posted by Acmlm I was wondering if anyone still remembered that first thread at CG.  Up until that point I hadn't really mentioned LM anywhere other than on my web page (so in other words, virtually no one knew about it). When I noticed the early documenting work going on in that thread, I thought I'd save them some effort by mentioning what I had already nearly completed.Although in hindsight, I'm actually kind of embarrassed by version 1.00 of LM. No data management *at all*... you could save over anything, and it wouldn't erase the old modified levels. With only levels to save in the expanded area, at the time I seriously didn't think the editor would be used enough for it to matter.  |
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DahrkDaiz Red Super Koopa  Acmlm's Mosts 2005 Best ROM Hacker Level: 45  Posts: 187/885 EXP: 643520 For next: 16644 Since: 03-15-04 From: K-Town Since last post: 4 hours Last activity: 4 hours |
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Originally posted by hhallahh Actually, it's like saying that all calculators should have to be able to do calculus so that stupid people can do it without even knowing how to do algebra. |
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hhallahh Bob-Omb Level: 38 Posts: 280/607 EXP: 365476 For next: 4971 Since: 03-15-04 From: Portland, OR Since last post: 73 days Last activity: 60 days |
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| If you explain to me how being a good designer is contingent on being a good hacker (as understand calculus is contingent on understanding algebra), I'd buy that analogy. | |||
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DahrkDaiz Red Super Koopa Acmlm's Mosts 2005 Best ROM Hacker Level: 45 Posts: 188/885 EXP: 643520 For next: 16644 Since: 03-15-04 From: K-Town Since last post: 4 hours Last activity: 4 hours |
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| Let's just say, you don't see any utilities that make ASM hackers have better design, now do ya? </end further debating> (edited by DahrkDaiz on 06-16-04 07:18 PM) |
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hhallahh Bob-Omb Level: 38 Posts: 281/607 EXP: 365476 For next: 4971 Since: 03-15-04 From: Portland, OR Since last post: 73 days Last activity: 60 days |
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| Because if you did, they wouldn't really be hacking? /Catch-22 |
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iamhiro1112 Armos Level: 35  Posts: 49/487 EXP: 259927 For next: 20009 Since: 03-27-04 From: sd Since last post: 18 days Last activity: 7 days |
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Originally posted by Emptyeye My words exactly. When I was a kid I used to have lots of level ideas in my head. Without level editors these ideas could never come to light. I'm sure there are a lot of people out there that feel LM is a blessing for this reason also. |
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Escherial Shyguy Level: 17 Posts: 23/90 EXP: 20866 For next: 3877 Since: 03-15-04 From: Pasadena, CA Since last post: 202 days Last activity: 38 days |
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| The elitism in this thread's a bit depressing. If bad designers can create bad hacks easily, what difference does that make to you? Simply don't play them. That the mere existence of bad hackers lowers the discipline of hacking seems illogical to me. Here's an analogy: anyone can pick up a pencil and draw, but people only pay attention to decent artists. Should pencils be regulated because there are bad artists in the world? |
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Kario In Possession of a Stolen Shovel Level: 65 Posts: 387/2082 EXP: 2321379 For next: 14249 Since: 03-15-04 From: Texas... Yeehaw! Since last post: 2 days Last activity: 17 hours |
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| I think it would have been interesting if there weren't updates after 1.0. Let people figure the rest out themselves. | |||
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Xkeeper The required libraries have not been defined. Level: NAN  Posts: -4020/-863 EXP: NAN For next: 0 Since: 03-15-04 Since last post: 2 hours Last activity: -753366 sec. |
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Originally posted by EscherialI'd use my applause sign, but it's out of batteries. Anyway, like he said: If you don't like 'bad' hacks, DON'T PLAY THEM. No one's forcing you, remember? |
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DahrkDaiz Red Super Koopa Acmlm's Mosts 2005 Best ROM Hacker Level: 45 Posts: 191/885 EXP: 643520 For next: 16644 Since: 03-15-04 From: K-Town Since last post: 4 hours Last activity: 4 hours |
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| Personally, I think Lunar Magic is a good thing, it does allow good designers to make good hacks. Granted there are a lot of bad hacks, those are easily ignored. Now saying that Lunar Magic should include more so that ASM hacks can be easily applied is a bitch much. ASM hacking is a talent and skill that not everyone can do, just like being a good designer is. If the program can't automatically make well designed levels for ASM hackers who have bad design, why should it make good ASM hacks for good level designers who can't ASM hack? I'm content with the progress LM has made and continue to look forward to other great hacks to come. (edited by DahrkDaiz on 06-17-04 07:28 AM) |
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Parasyte Bullet Bill Level: 35  Posts: 80/514 EXP: 267348 For next: 12588 Since: 05-25-04 Since last post: 104 days Last activity: 32 days |
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| There always were and always will be bad hacks and bad hackers. I only speak for myself when I say this, but I'm immediately turned down by programs which are "too easy" to use. I feel belittled by programs like AIM which have to litterally guide you through the process of using the bitch of a program. It's rather pathetic. That said, Lunar Magic is not really one of these "too esy to use" programs that everyone is making it out to be, but instead just brings some ease to editing a game. Unfortunately, going back to my opening sentence, bad hackers come along and just make a bunch of bad hacks. They swarm in numbers, you know. And the really sad part is that there's only one or two hacks available which actually rival the original game. Everything else is a step in the wrong direction. So since only one person knows anything at all about using the program, I'm going to call it a bad thing. Until all of you clowns learn how to use the editor, stop releasing hacks. Thanks. (edited by Parasyte on 06-17-04 10:50 PM) |
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HyperLamer <||bass> and this was the soloution i thought of that was guarinteed to piss off the greatest amount of people Sesshomaru Tamaranian Level: 118 Posts: 1048/8210 EXP: 18171887 For next: 211027 Since: 03-15-04 From: Canada, w00t! LOL FAD Since last post: 2 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
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Originally posted by DahrkDaiz Only because it's impossible. Escherial made a good analogy. Was the invention of pencils a bad idea because it allows people to make bad drawings?Para: I'd put a fair amount of cash on the bet that without LM, those 'two hacks that rival the original game' wouldn't even exist. Except, I'm broke. (edited by HyperHacker on 06-18-04 12:59 PM) |
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Sendy Shyguy Level: 17 Posts: 37/93 EXP: 21726 For next: 3017 Since: 03-25-04 From: South of UK Since last post: 55 days Last activity: 53 days |
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| How can a level editor be too easy to use? Easier to use editor = more advanced and creative levels. Do you think DaVinci would have done a better job of his painting if his paintbrush was uncomfortable and routinely delivered him electric shocks? It also of course = more shit hacks by people who's heart isn't in it, but usually the lack of screenshots tells you a hack isn't worth bothering with (or bad screenshots!) |
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Atma X Bandit Level: 43  Posts: 392/801 EXP: 553639 For next: 11407 Since: 03-16-04 From: Derrière vous!!! Since last post: 43 days Last activity: 14 days |
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| I would say that newbies should take a year or two to learn the program before even thinking about releasing a Hack, and they should only start releasing hacks by their Third of Fourth one (not some half ass first hack that they made, because nobody cares to play a crappy game such as that, if Nintendo released bad games, would we want to play them? No, not at all, so why should we play bad SMW hacks). I have only played a few hacks myself, because most of them look like crap, and all of them rip gfx from SMAS excessively. As for my hack, it wasn't very fun, because I didn't have enough work done on it yet (because it was a big project), but it will be a good hack when finished I should have only posted ScreenShots to show my Graphical work, rather than the Hack itself, because the Levels weren't very complete, so it wasn't very fun to play (technically, you couldn't really play it much at all yet) Newbies: Wait to release your hack, trust me, it'll be a lot better if you do. Never be impatient to show what you can do, because it's not really that impressive, until you've spent enough time working on it and learning how to make it well. Time heals many wounds (or in this case, it helps fix many things)(edited by Atma X on 06-18-04 04:04 PM) (edited by Atma X on 06-18-04 04:09 PM) |
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hhallahh Bob-Omb Level: 38 Posts: 282/607 EXP: 365476 For next: 4971 Since: 03-15-04 From: Portland, OR Since last post: 73 days Last activity: 60 days |
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Originally posted by Sendy The argument that can be made is that if an editor is outrageously easy to use, no one would go beyond what that editor can do, because they wouldn't know and wouldn't find it worthwhile to learn. For example, using a block editor with a bunch of premade blocks makes it less likely that a person will learn how to make his own blocks, etc. It's not a good argument, though. |
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DahrkDaiz Red Super Koopa Acmlm's Mosts 2005 Best ROM Hacker Level: 45 Posts: 199/885 EXP: 643520 For next: 16644 Since: 03-15-04 From: K-Town Since last post: 4 hours Last activity: 4 hours |
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Originally posted by HyperHacker Drawing well with a pencil and using colors in your art = 2 different things. Should a pencil be able to mix colors together in a painting to create good artwork, or should that not be left to those who can obtain that skill? |
| Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 | Add to favorites | "RSS" Feed | Next newer thread | Next older thread |
| Acmlm's Board - I2 Archive - Super Mario World hacking - Is the creation of Lunar Magic a good thing? |
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