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| Acmlm's Board - I2 Archive - General Emulation - Roms > Carts |
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Weasel Missionary in PeruLevel: 34  Posts: 265/454 EXP: 236444 For next: 17207 Since: 03-15-04 From: Washington Since last post: 467 days Last activity: 339 days |
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| There was a discussion in #rom-hacking about this and, as far as I know, I won. The problem was: Which is better, roms or carts? My answer was that roms are better, for these reasons: 1) Game saving: A cart battery can die, thus losing your savegames. With emulators, this isn't an issue as there is no hardware (other than the computer itself) that can erase on accident. 2) Controllers: Saying that a controller is better than the keyboard is absurd. People buy computer controllers all the time. This is not an argument. 3) The TV: You can hook up your TV to your computer with relative easy. People do it all the time. 4) Sound: Sound is as good as your sound card. There isn't a difference between your sound card and the TV. Listen carefully. 5) Hardware issues: Sometimes, a cart will not work. This is seen on the NES constantly. The game doesn't load or you get funky glitches. This is eliminated on the emulators. Try it. It loads every time. 6) Cheating: On an NES, you had to buy a game genie separately. Most modern emulators support cheat devices. 7) Console fKitten Yiffer: Example is my n64. The console quit working one day and I haven't a clue as to why. But lo and behold, the n64 emulator works every time! 8) Retro gaming, or "I have all these old games in cart form!": Big whoop. I have as many roms as you have carts. And mine are definite to work too. Doesn't matter if they aren't worth much money. That's why jobs were invented. There were other reasons, but I'm not going into detail. But for these said reasons, I conclude that emulators and roms are greater than original carts and consoles. Care to depose my argument? Or to agree with me? |
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Kefka Indefinitely Unbanned Level: 81 Posts: 1316/3392 EXP: 4826208 For next: 166641 Since: 03-15-04 From: Pomona, CALIFORNIA BABY! Since last post: 4 hours Last activity: 4 hours |
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Well, my say on this would be that most of the time, yes, roms are better. However, you can't discount the fact that it is harder to play games on the computer than on the console, especially with the SNES or N64. However, with innovative utilities such as PocketNES on the rise, I think that the need for carts is dwindling. I used to say that for GBA games, I would rather have the game than the rom, because the controls just feel smoother on the GBA. But now that I spent the money to get a flash card, I can play any damned rom I want on that thing!  So, in short, I agree that roms are greater than carts. EDIT: I am too lazy to buy a controller for my comp.  Which is why I said the bullshit I stated above.(edited by Kefka on 05-04-04 07:08 PM) |
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Dark Sorceress Rope Level: 18  Posts: 60/107 EXP: 27052 For next: 2845 Since: 03-15-04 From: California, USA Since last post: 134 days Last activity: 127 days |
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| Another good thing about roms, translations and patches. You can play SD3 in English or play SoE in 2 player. Something that wasn't available for carts. Graphical buffering. Turn on that 2xSai engine or something and watch everything smoothed out real nice. Frame Skipping, tired of those ANNOYING cutscenes that take forever? SKIP EM! Also with some emulators you can rewind or slow down the speed (which is good when needed) State Saving, this can ruin gameplay, but if you use them right, then it can still be fun. You can beat those games that are impossible to beat (Wild Guns). Portability, why bring your carts to a friends house when you can just bring them on disk. If you want your performance then bring the computer. |
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LocalH Red Goomba Level: 12  Posts: 3/46 EXP: 7612 For next: 309 Since: 03-17-04 Since last post: 25 days Last activity: 4 days |
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| It's still not the original hardware though. Not that emulators aren't good, there's lots you can do with emulation that you can't do with hardware. But hardware is paramount to anyone who codes for said system. If your code only works on emulation, and not on the real thing, then your code sucks ass. And for programmers, 100% accuracy is best, and you only get that with hardware - although emulators are very close, they're still not 100% accurate and thus might differ from hardware in some miniscule way. Guess it matters whether you look at it from a user's standpoint or a programmer's standpoint. For users, I agree, the things stated are valid benefits of emulation over hardware. |
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WeaselMissionary in Peru Level: 34 Posts: 266/454 EXP: 236444 For next: 17207 Since: 03-15-04 From: Washington Since last post: 467 days Last activity: 339 days |
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| Wow, I was expecting some slight opposition, like I got from #rom-hacking. Take that, Skiffles! I'm happy you guys agree with me on this subject. Take that, Nintendo! |
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Colleen Administrator Level: 136 Posts: 1267/11302 EXP: 29369328 For next: 727587 Since: 03-15-04 From: LaSalle, Quebec, Canada Since last post: 3 hours Last activity: 1 hour |
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| However, you can't discount the fact that it is harder to play games on the computer than on the console, especially with the SNES or N64. It depends on what kind of gamepad you use. Yes, the games are harder to play on keyboard, but my gamepad can handle SNES and PSX games no problem - and I have some custom N64 schemes too. Or you can just get a USB adaptor and use a PS2/GC controller. |
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Fyxe Lyn Level: 51 Posts: 130/1160 EXP: 954265 For next: 59673 Since: 03-29-04 Since last post: 117 days Last activity: 114 days |
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| I have one simple reason (oh, and a few others...) for why the original thing is better... No graphical errors, and no frame-skipping. It may just be my computer, but I always have to skip frames on my emulators for them to run at full speed. And no emulators are completely accurate with graphics. I spot graphical glitches even with games like A Link To The Past. Even if you do have a faster Pc, that doesn't stop the speed from 'skipping' occasionally or being incorrect. Also, unless you use some kind of thing to make your console controllers compatible with the Pc, no controllers are ever as good as the real thing. I've got a controller that's essentially a SNES controller in design, but it's still crap compared to the real thing. Another problem is that playing 2 player is harder because you need TWO controllers plugged into the Pc, and I don't even have enough sockets for that, I don't think... As for sound... Zsnes is not accurate with sound. It's very close but it's not. I can't speak for other emulators, but. I don't think that has much to do with your soundcard. Emulating sound correctly is very difficult. Oh, and hooking up the Pc to the Tv surely won't get a completely accurate image from the game, as the games still run through the emulator. I'm not saying there isn't good things. The fact that you never get any fKitten Yiffers is a good thing (although an N64 suddenly stopping working is something I've never heard of before... You could probably get it fixed for free, too, Nintendo is quite good with that), and save states and cheats are nice and clever, and the fact that saves won't disappear is lovely. ROMs have lots of good things... Buuuut, it's never quite the same. (edited by Fyxe on 05-05-04 09:11 AM) |
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KawaiiImoto-e Hammer Brother Level: 49 Posts: 245/1068 EXP: 852917 For next: 30966 Since: 03-15-04 From: In my own little complicated dreamworld Since last post: 16 days Last activity: 4 days |
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| I think the real thing is better. 1. I got the damn game. I can boast with my cartridge of that game, but not with the rom. (Wow! You got a rom!). 2. You can take the cart to your friend, stick it in the console and play. 3. When the cart works, it works, and it never glitches unless something is defective. 4. Controlls, nothing beats the original Game Controllers. |
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Ice Ranger Leever Level: 23  Posts: 25/183 EXP: 60462 For next: 7261 Since: 03-16-04 Since last post: 82 days Last activity: 3 days |
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| Except for not game boy * games, I'd prefer the roms. I burned everything off on a couple of CD-"roms" and plug it in a friends computer a long with a couple of controllers (which is no longer a problem as you can see). Frame skipping doesn't bother me, it's barely noticable on my computer. I have the video output to the TV so it looks more like the original. I have better than factory speakers so my sound is pretty good now too. I agree though that it is not 100% like the console, but it probably never will be. The fact that emulators let you play without cleaning the carts when they've sat on a shelf for months is also extremely helpful. The benefits far outweigh the downfalls. Oh, about the GB thing, I have a game boy color (living in the dark ages still ). On trips (where I don't drive and I don't like the people I have around) I play that. Once I get an SP, I'm getting the flash cart for all those GBA roms I have. |
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Kitten Yiffer Purple wand Furry moderator Vivent l'exp����¯�¿�½������©rience de signalisation d'amusement, ou bien ! Level: 135 Posts: 1420/11162 EXP: 28824106 For next: 510899 Since: 03-15-04 From: Sweden Since last post: 3 hours Last activity: 4 min. |
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It depends on which console. N64 emulation is sometimes slow on my favorite game (Goldeneye) that it get's unplayable. And thoose arguments works best on NES/SNES games.  I can hear the diffrence between real and emulated.  And show me a free GBA emulator where I can link on, so I can trash my GBA. The link feature is something that I almost abuse on my GBA. |
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Kefka Indefinitely Unbanned Level: 81 Posts: 1351/3392 EXP: 4826208 For next: 166641 Since: 03-15-04 From: Pomona, CALIFORNIA BABY! Since last post: 4 hours Last activity: 4 hours |
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| With these little toys I don't see how anyone can claim that the console is better other than for collection purposes. |
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KATW King Yoshi "If you stare at something long enough, it can be funny." Level: 86  Posts: 570/3959 EXP: 6087979 For next: 54128 Since: 03-15-04 Since last post: 7 hours Last activity: 5 hours |
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| The Console still has one thing over Roms. You try crowding 4 people around a computer to play multiplayer |
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Kefka Indefinitely Unbanned Level: 81 Posts: 1390/3392 EXP: 4826208 For next: 166641 Since: 03-15-04 From: Pomona, CALIFORNIA BABY! Since last post: 4 hours Last activity: 4 hours |
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Originally posted by Kirby all the way This makes it easier Yep, barring the controller cords are super short, you should be able to fit 4 people around the computer area! |
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Kitten Yiffer Purple wand Furry moderator Vivent l'exp����¯�¿�½������©rience de signalisation d'amusement, ou bien ! Level: 135 Posts: 1426/11162 EXP: 28824106 For next: 510899 Since: 03-15-04 From: Sweden Since last post: 3 hours Last activity: 4 min. |
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Originally posted by ColleenI heard that this is a problem with GBA SP's. However my GBA SP dosen't have any dust.  Once my sister got a bug, inside her GBA. Not in the screen but in the GBA itself. (edited by Kitten Yiffer on 05-06-04 01:58 AM) |
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KawaiiImoto-e Hammer Brother Level: 49 Posts: 247/1068 EXP: 852917 For next: 30966 Since: 03-15-04 From: In my own little complicated dreamworld Since last post: 16 days Last activity: 4 days |
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Originally posted by Kitten YifferOriginally posted by ColleenI heard that this is a problem with GBA SP's. However my GBA SP dosen't have any dust. What? A real life bug? Cool! |
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Ran-chan Moldorm eek, when are they going to stop growing... Level: 143  Posts: 702/12781 EXP: 35293588 For next: 538220 Since: 03-15-04 From: Nerima District, Tokyo - Japan Since last post: 12 hours Last activity: 12 hours |
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Kitten Yiffer Purple wand Furry moderator Vivent l'exp����¯�¿�½������©rience de signalisation d'amusement, ou bien ! Level: 135 Posts: 1433/11162 EXP: 28824106 For next: 510899 Since: 03-15-04 From: Sweden Since last post: 3 hours Last activity: 4 min. |
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We were talking about dust inside the screen. Not on the connector. Originally posted by KawaiiImoto-eYep a real life bug. I have no idea how it got inside, or how it got out again for that matter. |
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KawaiiImoto-e Hammer Brother Level: 49 Posts: 248/1068 EXP: 852917 For next: 30966 Since: 03-15-04 From: In my own little complicated dreamworld Since last post: 16 days Last activity: 4 days |
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Originally posted by Kitten Yiffer Is there a Photo? |
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Setzer Popo Level: 36  Posts: 58/532 EXP: 290182 For next: 17928 Since: 04-22-04 From: Not Florida. because I'm going to sink it. Since last post: 5 hours Last activity: 48 min. |
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| Carts > Roms Nothing beats being able to brag about having a rare game Rare rom? oh yeah, like they're hard to find besides, you never have to worry about annoying IM windows popping up, or a small screen, or laggy play, or... well, anything that's normally not there, but is annoying, on a cart! because carts pwn weasel! just like my elf! |
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HyperLamer <||bass> and this was the soloution i thought of that was guarinteed to piss off the greatest amount of people Sesshomaru Tamaranian Level: 118 Posts: 559/8210 EXP: 18171887 For next: 211027 Since: 03-15-04 From: Canada, w00t! LOL FAD Since last post: 2 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
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| Emulators have their advantages, but... -Consoles are easy to use on a TV and don't require super-expensive hardware or moving your computer to do so. -You can use a console while your annoying little brother is on the computer. -No emulator is perfect. Especially with fun hardware-related bugs, they fall short. Newer consoles are especially hard to emulate. -Generic PC controllers often don't work well for complex games, and using a keyboard sucks. -You won't get hassled by the feds for using a console.  -No worrying about your computer crashing or messing things up. -Consoles boot faster than any computer ever will and launch the game instantly. -Game companies don't try to prevent the games from being used on consoles. But what really pwns, hands down, no contest: EMULATORS RUNNING ON CONSOLES. |
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