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| Acmlm's Board - I2 Archive - General Emulation - Justified? |
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Did You Think I Deserved It?| Yes if you think I had it coming or No you think it was unfair. | Yes you deserve it. |
36.4%, 8 votes | No that was unfair. |
63.6%, 14 votes | Multi-voting is enabled.
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ShadowSonic Paragoomba Level: 13 Posts: 60/69 EXP: 8585 For next: 1682 Since: 03-23-05 From: Minnesota Since last post: 54 days Last activity: 7 days |
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| Ok this is may help if you know what zbattle.net is. If you don't zbattle.net is a program that lets you play online with Zsnes but without filling out IP Addresses and having both Roms as the same name, etc... Anyway zbattle.net has been out for a long time and I've used it for a logn time too. I thought it would be nice if there was something different about it. So I changed some text in the program with a Hex editor. I liked it and posted on the zbattle.net forums. I called it Z-Battle.Net (Modified Version 1.00). I never said I claimed it as my own but I did asked if anyone else would like it so I posted a download link on the forums. The next thing I get is an email from the zbattle.net creator, Veeb0rg. He wrote: Title of email: WTF do you think your doing? Email says: hacking someone elses client, and then claiming it as your own version? gimme a ****ing break. consider this your warning That's what he wrote and I thought that was just it, a warning. I was gonna delete my topic but he erased my username from the forums. Then he banned me from zbattle.net. Then he got my websites deleted from tripod because I had it uploaded on it and it also had my SLRPG and SL64 stuff on it. So now I have to remake a whole new site. zbattle.net isn't even copyrighted so doesn't that mean anyone could modify zbattle themselves and distribute it? Well anyway thanks for reading my story and I hope you think what he did was wrong. |
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Dish Spiny Level: 38 Posts: 517/596 EXP: 355646 For next: 14801 Since: 03-15-04 From: Disch Since last post: 18 days Last activity: 18 days |
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Originally posted by ShadowSonic I'm sure it is copyrighted. It's most likely under a freeware liscence like GNU GPL -- of which there are restrictions on what you can and can't legally do with it. That out of the way... I tried going to the forums to see the post in question -- but it doesn't look like all forums are available for non-registered users -- so I tried to register but they don't allow free email addresses, so blech. There's probably more to this picture than you'd have us believe (or than you realize). Perhaps if we could read the thread you posted? (copy/paste). But if this is just a ploy for sympathy and an attempt to start up an angry mob against zbattle.net -- you're not getting any fuel out of me. |
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KATW King Yoshi "If you stare at something long enough, it can be funny." Level: 86  Posts: 3473/3959 EXP: 6087979 For next: 54128 Since: 03-15-04 Since last post: 7 hours Last activity: 5 hours |
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| Your first mistake was actually posting a download link. You left yourself wiiiiiiiide open for something bad to happen. Always ask before editing someone elses program. Its better to get a no the good way, instead of a no the flame way... Come to think of it, what EXACTLY did you change. |
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Prier Archangel Administrative Priestess. NUCLEAR SUB WEEEOOOO Level: 119  Posts: 7230/8392 EXP: 18790939 For next: 138352 Since: 03-15-04 From: Nerima Dist. - Tokyo, Japan Since last post: 1 day Last activity: 1 day |
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| I would think only 'changing the text' would not warrant a ban, but why in the world edit it anyways? Did you even get permission to do modifications to it to begin with? Regardless if you like a program for what it is or not, it's probably the most disrespectful move to make against the original authors of the program without seeking their approval first. That doesn't necessarily mean I think he went completely overboard by taking care of getting your site deleted...but then are you really telling us everything? Changing some text with a hex editor just doesn't seem to be enough to get Vee in a sling. As for the forums, they could be a little less uptight. They're almost worse than this forum is. (edited by Prier on 08-11-05 04:53 AM) |
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dan Snap Dragon Level: 43  Posts: 685/782 EXP: 534516 For next: 30530 Since: 03-15-04 Since last post: 20 hours Last activity: 14 hours |
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| You were just asking for trouble really. I mean, modifying a binary with a hex editor, then posting it for everyone to use, without asking for permission from the author? And to cap it off you posted it on the author's forum? Pure stupidity. |
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rg_ Goomba Level: 8  Posts: 11/26 EXP: 1964 For next: 223 Since: 03-27-05 Since last post: 21 hours Last activity: 12 hours |
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Originally posted by ShadowSonicYou might want to read up on copyright laws, specifically the Berne Convention of 1886. By now I think each and every Western country has copyright laws that grant the copyright automatically to the creator of something, registering your copyright somewhere is not necessary anymore although it's often still possible for legal reasons (it makes it easier to prove that you're the creator). I quote from here: "Under the Berne convention, copyrights for creative works generally are not granted, but rather automatically assumed; an author does not have to "register" or "apply for" a copyright. As soon as a work is "fixed", that is, written or recorded on some physical medium, its author is automatically entitled to all exclusive rights to the work and any derivative works unless and until the author explicitly disclaims them, or until the copyright expires." |
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ShadowSonic Paragoomba Level: 13 Posts: 61/69 EXP: 8585 For next: 1682 Since: 03-23-05 From: Minnesota Since last post: 54 days Last activity: 7 days |
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Originally posted by DischOriginally posted by ShadowSonic Sorry but I can't even log in because he deleted my account on the forums and I'm sure he deleted that thread ASAP. And, no, I'm not looking for sympathy or attempting to start up an angry mob against zbattle.net. I like using zbattle.net and wouldn't hate it. Originally posted by Watery Brick Yeah your right, I guess I just wasn't aware of the consequences for doing this thing in the first place. But if you want to see what I changed, go here: http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y91/abarna01/zbattle_changes.png and you can see what are my changes on the left and the original on the right. (edited by ShadowSonic on 08-11-05 05:10 PM) |
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Lenophis Super Koopa Level: 44  Posts: 640/830 EXP: 584360 For next: 26925 Since: 03-15-04 From: Duluth, MN Since last post: 4 hours Last activity: 3 hours |
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| ...The original was better anyway. Because When People Type Like This They Reek Of Stupidity. You Are Worse Than A Noob. With that out of the way, you still deserve what you got. | |||
UnsurpassedDarkness Melon Bug Level: 39 Posts: 703/746 EXP: 391555 For next: 13216 Since: 10-29-04 From: Λtlantıs. All your base are belong to us. Since last post: 12 days Last activity: 2 days |
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He probably only typed that way because he considered those titles, and you’re supposed to capitalize the first letter of most words in a title. Anyway, ShadowSonic probably should’ve asked Veeb0rg first, but Veeb0rg shouldn’t have deleted his account, or his website, if the only thing he did was change some text that didn’t really even matter. Maybe give him a warning or something (like the e-mail said), maybe a temporary ban, and then delete his account and get his website deleted, but not all at once like that… but then maybe that’s just me. Also, the e-mail said “claiming it as your own version”, not your own program, which is little bit different. Anyway, assuming that I know the whole story, I would have to say that he made a one time mistake, and probably didn’t deserve all that. |
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Kyoufu Kawa I'm not bad. I'm just drawn that way. Level: 70  Posts: 1972/2481 EXP: 3008456 For next: 7355 Since: 03-19-04 From: Catgirl Central Since last post: 14 hours Last activity: 13 hours |
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| Shadow's little text hack sucks, you shouldn't ever use Camel Caps, and Veeborg deserves a shot in the knees from 120 km away with an Aratech sniper rifle for overreacting like that. | |||
Zer0wned Cheep-cheep Level: 17  Posts: 10/181 EXP: 21472 For next: 3271 Since: 08-16-05 From: Hermosa Beach, CA Since last post: 30 days Last activity: 30 days |
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| Avoiding all the "shoulda woulda coulda" and comments on the hack, what happened to Shadow is like a cop pulling someone over for a modified muffler. Those are illegal, yes, but the only ones that'll pull you over for it are bored and in need of a power trip (that or the noise is actually creating a problem). He screwed up, yeah, but he shouldn't have had the book thrown at him like that. A warning would have been plenty sufficient. |
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thrasas Octorok Level: 7 Posts: 19/25 EXP: 1101 For next: 347 Since: 08-16-05 From: Greece Since last post: 63 days Last activity: 61 days |
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| I voted for unfair because the punishment was far too harsh from normal! On the other hand you should have asked first befor hacking! |
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Roneo Strife Tektite Level: 12 Posts: 40/60 EXP: 6298 For next: 1623 Since: 05-02-05 Since last post: 11 days Last activity: 35 days |
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| That's totally fucked up! Some assholes are just like that. I say fuck Zsnes and go snes9x...and fix that problem with the controler configureration.  No seriously, I'm sorry that guy sucks ass. |
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aioria1981 Ninji Level: 20  Posts: 36/234 EXP: 36701 For next: 5738 Since: 07-20-05 From: Viña del Mar, Chile Since last post: 5 days Last activity: 5 days |
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Originally posted by thrasas At most, it would have been a temporary ban, but not deleting someone's site, even more if there are thing stored on there unrelated to zbattle (such as rom hacks and such). He should have asked ONLY for the removal of the link from your tripod page, NOT the whole site. |
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NetSplit Koopa Level: 19 Posts: 87/117 EXP: 30378 For next: 5399 Since: 04-05-04 Since last post: 1 day Last activity: 1 hour |
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| Did anyone actually LOOK at the changes he made in that screenshot he posted? They're pretty terrible; few, if any, can be considered USEFUL changes, and many are downright stupid. I mean, come on, changing host to hoster? That's not even a word. Changing player to they? Why aim to make the word used MORE vague? Ugh, come on. Furthermore, why release this AND call it a new version? He changed a few bits of text in the program without permission and released it as an entirely new version like he did something spectacular. I don't even know of anyone who would find these changes useful. Harsh as it may sound, it was well deserved. | |||
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DarkSlaya POOOOOOOOOOOORN! Level: 88 Posts: 4035/4249 EXP: 6409254 For next: 241410 Since: 05-16-04 From: Montreal, Quebec, Canada Since last post: 8 hours Last activity: 5 hours |
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Originally posted by NetSplit I don't think so. There are limits. You give a warning before taking action. If the warning doesn't work, you go ahead an punish who needs to be punished. Also, if the person doesn't do what you want you to do (doesn't get rid of the modified program on his website), you can ask the host to take action and DELETE THE SINGLE FILE. Because it's pretty fucking moronic to ask the host for complete site deletion if said website isn't all about the released program. Of course, Shadow shouldn't have made those modifications at first, but Veeb0rg obviously overreacted. Because from what Shadow said, he didn't take credit for the program, only for the modification (like Rom Hackers take credit for the changes and not for the original game). And deleting an account + ban from your website the way he did it was pretty childish, since it let's no chance from the offender (Shadow) to explain himself. He doesn't give a chance to do anything. Way to go  Anyway, this is all based on the Shadow's side of the story, so some things may not be right, but that's all I have and I don't exactly have any proofs. So in the end, it wasn't justified, even if Shadow shouldn't have done it. |
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dan Snap Dragon Level: 43 Posts: 694/782 EXP: 534516 For next: 30530 Since: 03-15-04 Since last post: 20 hours Last activity: 14 hours |
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| Why is this thread still here? I thought bitching about getting banned on other people's boards was one of those 'no-no' threads. | |||
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Dish Spiny Level: 38 Posts: 533/596 EXP: 355646 For next: 14801 Since: 03-15-04 From: Disch Since last post: 18 days Last activity: 18 days |
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Originally posted by DarkSlaya In otherwords: allow yourself to be walked all over at least once before doing anything. Let's just say I don't agree.He might have had stuff like this to deal with in the past. Even if he would have given a warning saying "take that down" -- how would he have known the guy would? He probably assumed the guy wouldn't. And that's not an unreasonable assumption at all... considering the types that are usually involved in this kind of thing.
For all we know -- that's all he did. He probably alerted Tripod about his program -- then they either decided to close it on their own -- or they noticed the OTHER stuff he had on his page (SM64, ?SLRPG?) and close it because they saw that. We don't know whether he really said "OMG SHUT HIS PAGE DOWN FOREVER" or not.
Quit making assumptions. You don't know he did any such thing. Though personally -- I wouldn't call that moronic. And I wouldn't blame him if that's actually what he did (though I don't think I'd do it, myself).
Let's step back and look at how we know Veeborg actually acted. 1) He assumed ShadowSonic was some sort of pirate/thief 2) An e-mail saying "hey don't do this" 3) A banning from his forums 4) Alerted Tripod so they could remove his program. I don't see a single unreasonable reaction on that list: 1) He may have been kind of quick to make this assumption -- but it all depends on the circumstances. I didn't see the source available on zbattle.net, so apparently he doesn't want people tinkering with it. He may have had to deal with problems like this in the past, and thought it best to deal with the problem directly rather than tip-toe around it to avoid hurting some dude's feelings. Whatever the reason, he decided to take action. 2) I don't even think you would object to this action. 3) If I didn't want people messing with my crap and some dude on MY forums comes by and flashes something like that, you bet your ass I'd ban him. That's not the kind of people I want on my forums. I'm sure Veeb0rg felt the same way. Even if you don't agree -- they're his forums. No rule that says you have to allow everyone on them. 4) I probably would have done this too. Remember for all we know he just told them to remove his program -- not the whole page.
I fail to see how that matters at all. If you start posting your Nintendo DS ROM hack all over the Nintendo forums, you can bet your ass they'll have the same or worse reaction. And I'm sure you wouldn't think they were overreacting at all. So how comeyou say this this guy is overreacting and is being childish? Because he gives his software away for free? Rather than "immature" and "childish" -- I'd call that "kind" and "protective".
Maybe he thought the hack was childish and decided he didn't want people like that on his forums.
Do you realize what you just said there? You said "I know I don't have all the info, but I know Veeb0rg was wrong" The bottom line is we heard half a story in sob-story form from a guy that got canned from some forums and came here looking for sympathy. So without trying to get all the facts or trying to get the whole story... you (and apparently at least 12 others) ate it up like candy. I don't even know what to say. |
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DarkSlaya POOOOOOOOOOOORN! Level: 88 Posts: 4042/4249 EXP: 6409254 For next: 241410 Since: 05-16-04 From: Montreal, Quebec, Canada Since last post: 8 hours Last activity: 5 hours |
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| I think you misunderstood what I meant. I'm saying that what it's been said, it's unjustified. But it's because I only have seen Shadow's point of view. And I can't exactly verify if what he said is true and if he also overreacted. I did say that he was wrong to begin with. ... I'm not saying that Shadow needs any sympathy either. He did something wrong, and he should aknowledge this. While I'm at it, you're saying that I should quit making assumption, but you're saying that Veeb0rg's assumption was right and all? Because what he did should've been like the four steps you said, but one at a time. Warn, then if the guy doesn't do shit, act and ban his ass forever. As for #2, of course I don't object to this. As for the whole site deleting, I probably overreacted, as it's true that most hosts don't like to receive complaints about copyrighted stuff. Whatever, all this thread wouldn't matter anyway, since we can't exactly know what the circumstances where. It's pretty much pointless arguing, and I don't exactly want to start debating this with Disch (I know when to stop ).Oh, and of course, I can see it the other way and say: "That's what you get for being an idiot" (that would be Disch point of view in a few words )Edit: It's kinda fun to see how I'm becoming unsure of myself as my post get's near the end  (edited by DarkSlaya on 08-21-05 11:55 AM) |
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ShadowSonic Paragoomba Level: 13 Posts: 65/69 EXP: 8585 For next: 1682 Since: 03-23-05 From: Minnesota Since last post: 54 days Last activity: 7 days |
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| What I said in any of my posts is all just what happened. I suppose he sent me that email first and then waited for me to do something about it but I guess he couldn't wait long enough in one day for me to do something while I was sleeping. Anyway I'm not, NOT, looking for any sympathy from anyone. I wanted to know if what he did was a bit harsh. This all took place in one day. Also, I'm sure no one would be dumb enough to send a hacked rom to Nintendo or post it on their forums. And I'm sure it wouldn't have gotten my sites deleted from having information about some WIP roms (Super Luigi 64 and Super Luigi RPG). It's not like I posted any beta roms on my site from those. Anyway, he's still holding a grudge against for making a very dumb small hacked version of zbattle.net. Some of you do have a point about how dumb it was. BTW, if Veeb0rg could come here and post his side of the story, maybe that could change some things. |
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