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| Acmlm's Board - I2 Archive - General Chat - London Explosions |
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alte Hexe Star Mario I dreamed I saw Joe Hill last night Alive as you and me "But Joe you're ten years dead!" "I never died" said he "I never died!" said he Level: 99  Posts: 4546/5458 EXP: 9854489 For next: 145511 Since: 03-15-04 From: ... Since last post: 2 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
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| No need to westernize them. There are some western ideals, like tolerance, that came from that region. But due to centuries of brutal "westernization" it has been lost. We just need to teach that corrupt politicians = bad. We need to show by example that bombings = wrong. We need to show the poverty = not needed. We need to show that killings gays, beating women, treating Jews like slime = VERY BAD. We need, as a society, to understand that hatred, violence, bigotry and such issues are unneeded and that we should try to harmonize and enjoy each other rather than trying to do it for our interestes and only our interests. | |||
geeogree Bloober Level: 34  Posts: 380/448 EXP: 231583 For next: 22068 Since: 03-16-04 From: Calgary, Canada Since last post: 1 day Last activity: 11 hours |
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| yeah well.... it's going to take a lot of years of leading by example to do that... and there are a lot of attacks that are going to occur in that time frame... or at least, a lot of potential attacks |
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alte Hexe Star Mario I dreamed I saw Joe Hill last night Alive as you and me "But Joe you're ten years dead!" "I never died" said he "I never died!" said he Level: 99 Posts: 4547/5458 EXP: 9854489 For next: 145511 Since: 03-15-04 From: ... Since last post: 2 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
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| I'd rather risk a few hundred innocents to see the destruction of such violent radicals. And the best way to do that is through taking the sacrifice on our side and doing all we can to change the surroundings that have bred such violent ideals. Humanity as a whole is the most important thing to preserve. It's a lot like a lawn. Bombing and war are only going to destroy the visible part of the weed. The root will grow stronger. If we throw down a better coat of grass seed it will be harder for the weed to grow and gradually its roots will be strangled and the weed will be no more. And with simple maintenance and diligence we can ensure that those weeds never take root again. |
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geeogree Bloober Level: 34 Posts: 381/448 EXP: 231583 For next: 22068 Since: 03-16-04 From: Calgary, Canada Since last post: 1 day Last activity: 11 hours |
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| in an ideal world.... where problems are grass related.... it could work I just can't imagine that someone that would blow up a bus would be able to be reasoned with rationally |
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alte Hexe Star Mario I dreamed I saw Joe Hill last night Alive as you and me "But Joe you're ten years dead!" "I never died" said he "I never died!" said he Level: 99 Posts: 4548/5458 EXP: 9854489 For next: 145511 Since: 03-15-04 From: ... Since last post: 2 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
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| Those people aren't rational. NOTHING will be able to deal with them. They are consumed with hate and resentment. A bomb won't kill the ideals they preach. Fixing the problems that they exploit to use as a backdrop for their teachings, on the other hand, will ruin that message. Oh, I found this awesome article in today's Toronto Star. I shouldn't reproduce it here, but it is amazingly well done and a good read: " Muslims in danger By THOMAS L FRIEDMAN - Thursday's bombings in downtown London are profoundly disturbing. In part, that is because a bombing in our mother country and closest ally, England, is almost like a bombing in our own country. In part, it's because one assault may have involved a suicide bomber, bringing this terrible jihadist weapon into the heart of a major Western capital. That would be deeply troubling because open societies depend on trust - on trusting that the person sitting next to you on the bus or subway is not wearing dynamite. The attacks are also deeply disturbing because when jihadist bombers take their madness into the heart of our open societies, our societies are never again quite as open. Indeed, we all just lost a little freedom Thursday. But maybe the most important aspect of the London bombings is this: When jihadist-style bombings happen in Riyadh, that is a Muslim-Muslim problem. That is a police problem for Saudi Arabia. But when Qaeda-like bombings come to the London Underground, that becomes a civilizational problem. Every Muslim living in a Western society suddenly becomes a suspect, becomes a potential walking bomb. And when that happens, it means Western countries are going to be tempted to crack down even harder on their own Muslim populations. That, too, is deeply troubling. The more Western societies - particularly the big European societies, which have much larger Muslim populations than America - look on their own Muslims with suspicion, the more internal tensions this creates, and the more alienated their already alienated Muslim youth become. This is exactly what Osama bin Laden dreamed of with 9/11: to create a great gulf between the Muslim world and the globalizing West. So this is a critical moment. We must do all we can to limit the civilizational fallout from this bombing. But this is not going to be easy. Why? Because unlike after 9/11, there is no obvious, easy target to retaliate against for bombings like those in London. There are no obvious terrorist headquarters and training camps in Afghanistan that we can hit with cruise missiles. The Qaeda threat has metastasized and become franchised. It is no longer vertical, something that we can punch in the face. It is now horizontal, flat and widely distributed, operating through the Internet and tiny cells. Because there is no obvious target to retaliate against, and because there are not enough police to police every opening in an open society, either the Muslim world begins to really restrain, inhibit and denounce its own extremists - if it turns out that they are behind the London bombings - or the West is going to do it for them. And the West will do it in a rough, crude way - by simply shutting them out, denying them visas and making every Muslim in its midst guilty until proven innocent. What do I mean? I mean that the greatest restraint on human behavior is never a policeman or a border guard. The greatest restraint on human behavior is what a culture and a religion deem shameful. It is what the village and its religious and political elders say is wrong or not allowed. Many people said Palestinian suicide bombing was the spontaneous reaction of frustrated Palestinian youth. But when Palestinians decided that it was in their interest to have a cease-fire with Israel, those bombings stopped cold. The village said enough was enough. The Muslim village has been derelict in condemning the madness of jihadist attacks. When Salman Rushdie wrote a controversial novel involving the prophet Muhammad, he was sentenced to death by the leader of Iran. To this day - to this day - no major Muslim cleric or religious body has ever issued a fatwa condemning Osama bin Laden. Some Muslim leaders have taken up this challenge. This past week in Jordan, King Abdullah II hosted an impressive conference in Amman for moderate Muslim thinkers and clerics who want to take back their faith from those who have tried to hijack it. But this has to go further and wider. The double-decker buses of London and the subways of Paris, as well as the covered markets of Riyadh, Bali and Cairo, will never be secure as long as the Muslim village and elders do not take on, delegitimize, condemn and isolate the extremists in their midst. " edit:: I must say that I have a HUGE amount of respect for Muslims and do everything I can to accomodate my Muslim friends and their culture in my community. I've gone to reading the Koran and speaking to some of their parents about the faith and doing a teensy bit of studying the history behind the culture. Islam as a faith is inherently good and espouses righteous tolerance and love. We, as a people, should see this in Islam and foster it. (edited by Ziff on 07-11-05 02:42 AM) |
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geeogree Bloober Level: 34 Posts: 382/448 EXP: 231583 For next: 22068 Since: 03-16-04 From: Calgary, Canada Since last post: 1 day Last activity: 11 hours |
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| I like that.... I really do I won't deny the truth behind it.... the "War on Terror" doesn't have to be fought with guns and bombs.... but I think it is being fought that way because there is no ally in the war on the other side.... at least not a very visible one... that article even said that not many are speaking up, and when they do they get crushed. the majority of the Islamic world disagree with what a small group is doing.... but the Islamic world as a whole doesn't realize that with little effort they could be 10 times louder and more powerful.... |
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