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| Acmlm's Board - I2 Archive - General Gaming - The degradation of gaming |
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Dei* Nipper Plant Level: 26  Posts: 7/412 EXP: 97995 For next: 4280 Since: 06-18-05 From: USA, Florida Since last post: 2 days Last activity: 1 day |
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| You know, it's dawned on me recently, given some thought about games in the past decade+, that the game developers are losing their touch with the way games were: replayable, epic, fun. Some of you may argue with this, but the way I see it, if you take a look at say, Warcraft 2, then take a look at World of Warcraft, do you not see a striking degradation in the core 'feel' of the gameplay? If you don't grasp what i'm saying, look at it like this. If you ever played Warcraft 2, didn't you feel a great sense of epic fun? That would make it replayable over and over? Play WoW after that and see if you can find the same 'touch'. I sure didn't, it's all one MMORPG with some fancy models, and the name WARCRAFT stamped on. This isn't Warcraft, this is some passoff of a game that was so much fun, it's even still played today. Will people play WoW 15 years from now? No, they'll be playing Halo 653, or Runescape 5. The way I see it, is in this age and era of technology, people and game developers are ignoring the fundamental style of the games which brought them up to the top, then demolish it by adding every new feature possible with 'zomg effects', barely even paying attention to the actual gameplay. Sure this can be 'fun', but not in any way the same kind of fun that the previous games of a series had. This is true in nearly every series, like Lufia, Doom, among others. And people continue to buy them and play them, thinking that classics are a thing of the past. Maybe they are, but how could you ignore so easily the simple and basically awesome gameplay they offered? These aren't one hit wonders either. Some developers, like Capcom, with their Street Fighter series, demolished the momentum they built up with delay of a 3rd release, and kept putting stupid unfamiliar things in the way, like Alpha 3, in attemt to coin in on the success of street fighter 2. But this didnt have the gameplay either, and loyal fans always realize this, they pay attention to it. Lufia is another example, with their latest release on the GBA, this was a crude spinoff of the 2nd title, one that disgraced the name of Lufia with its uninteresting story and strange RPG system. People today, consider graphics over gameplay, that any advanced models and effects can negate the effects of a dumb storyline. Newcomers think "The past is the past, let it be the past." this is not true. The past can be an inspiration and learning point for everyone, and I think especially so in this case for the video game developers and the entire industry. Insert quarter to continue. (edited by Dei* on 06-18-05 11:43 PM) |
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Clockworkz Birdo  "Hoargh! Take your shoes off!" Level: 64  Posts: 1567/2002 EXP: 2188320 For next: 25777 Since: 03-15-04 From: Undisclosed Since last post: 12 hours Last activity: 12 hours |
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| I disagree; Look at Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas. The plot line is very cutting edge and important, and it's an incrediblt fun game. As is any game where you can gun down hookers and gang mambers. Halo and Halo 2 are wonderful games; overrated as al hell, but fun, nonetheless. Metroid Prime was good, Metroid Prime 2 was even better. Graphics, sound, gameplay, all while keeping that classic Metroid touch. BTW, Halo will end at 3. Bungie says so. I am inclined to agree with you, though, that people take more pride in graphics nowadays. I believe the games of old are 'epic', because they were new, cutting edge genres. Super Metroid, Donkey Kong, Breath of Fire... those games really defined gaming. These new games, I don't even call them Video games anymore... well... yeah, I do, but a more apt name would probably be "Interactive Media". |
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Dei* Nipper Plant Level: 26 Posts: 10/412 EXP: 97995 For next: 4280 Since: 06-18-05 From: USA, Florida Since last post: 2 days Last activity: 1 day |
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Originally posted by Clockworkz Yeah, I agree, GTA, and Metroid are 2 of the few series (Including Mario and Zelda) That haven't really been touched. Halo was indeed overrated but i'm talking classics here, not recent new titles.  |
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RT-55J Ninji Level: 23  Posts: 113/240 EXP: 65287 For next: 2436 Since: 12-29-04 Since last post: 9 hours Last activity: 9 hours |
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Originally posted by Clockworkz I could have sworn Bungie said Halo would end at 2. |
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Clockworkz Birdo "Hoargh! Take your shoes off!" Level: 64 Posts: 1568/2002 EXP: 2188320 For next: 25777 Since: 03-15-04 From: Undisclosed Since last post: 12 hours Last activity: 12 hours |
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| Nope; 3. It says To Be Concluded, and the Chief says "I'm going to finish this war." [/lame-ass ending] (edited by Clockworkz on 06-19-05 12:11 AM) |
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Zerodius Aquamentus Level: 65  Posts: 1610/2036 EXP: 2243783 For next: 91845 Since: 03-16-04 From: ??? Since last post: 2 days Last activity: 2 days |
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| OK... Here is what I have to say: There is no such thing as a "degradation of gaming". I have some words to strenghten my position: SSBM, Metroid Prime, Legend of Zelda, Paper Mario, Megaman Zero, Kirby Canvas Curse. Do I need to continue on? Oh yes... one last detail. Notice how you only take note of bad exemples? Everything not in black and white after all (I will apply this to myself right now! Halo and Kingdom Hearts are good counter-balances to the titles mentionned above... and I must say that while some series evolved, others rather... well... let's just say Megaman X isn't what is used to be...)... |
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Prier Archangel Administrative Priestess. NUCLEAR SUB WEEEOOOO Level: 119  Posts: 6196/8392 EXP: 18790939 For next: 138352 Since: 03-15-04 From: Nerima Dist. - Tokyo, Japan Since last post: 1 day Last activity: 1 day |
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Originally posted by Zerodius That should be a 'no shit'. It basically boils down to one easy thing to remember: The game sucks or it doesn't. ET sucked back in the day just like Superman 64 did on the N64. It really doesn't matter what time it comes out. If it sucks, it sucks. |
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DarkSlaya POOOOOOOOOOOORN! Level: 88 Posts: 3734/4249 EXP: 6409254 For next: 241410 Since: 05-16-04 From: Montreal, Quebec, Canada Since last post: 8 hours Last activity: 5 hours |
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| It's more like "Now-a-days gamers suck" Because those who make the games usually create their games so the gamers buy them. If the gamers are all like "OMFG GRAPHICS PWN YOU", then the game will lean toward graphics and not other stuff. |
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Dei* Nipper Plant Level: 26 Posts: 12/412 EXP: 97995 For next: 4280 Since: 06-18-05 From: USA, Florida Since last post: 2 days Last activity: 1 day |
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| Which is exactly my point. O_o | |||
GeckoYamori Paratroopa Level: 18 Posts: 22/153 EXP: 25084 For next: 4813 Since: 05-10-05 Since last post: 1 day Last activity: 7 hours |
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| First of all, you are comparing a real time strategy game to an online role playing game. The developers wanted to achieve completely different things. That's like shitting on Mario Kart for not being the same as Super Mario Bros. Second, the statement that today graphics are more important than gameplay is bullshit. It's been like this since the dawn of the industry. For Christ's sake, just look at the Legend of Zelda commercial, and on top of that every Capcom NES box cover would have "State-of-the-art high resolution graphics" printed on it. Games could be viewed as gorgeus 15 years ago because they didn't have anything else to compare with, but they can still be pretty today in an artistic sense. Graphics are not just fancy lighting and polygon amount, it also covers things like atmosphere and character design. It's the entire visual experience. Graphics ARE a very important factor to a great, memorable game. Would you like to play a monochrome Ocarina of Time with stick characters? There will always be lots of shit games and some gems that will ultimately make the cut. There are plenty of cool things to look forward to, such as game physics that have added an entire new level of gameplay and user interaction. Half-Life 2 merely scratched the surface on what's possible. And for the record, Street Fighter Alpha 3 is one of the very best in the entire SF franchise :o (edited by GeckoYamori on 06-19-05 10:21 AM) |
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DarkSlaya POOOOOOOOOOOORN! Level: 88 Posts: 3736/4249 EXP: 6409254 For next: 241410 Since: 05-16-04 From: Montreal, Quebec, Canada Since last post: 8 hours Last activity: 5 hours |
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Originally posted by GeckoYamori Monochrome: Yes. Stick Characters: No. Graphics are important to some extent, they do not make the game. Now-a-days, most gamers won't play a game unless the graphics are godly (those graphics that look like real life). I've heard more than once: "The graphics aren't that great, I'm gonna buy *insert game with almost nothing to remember except good graphic*" This what I think is annoying. |
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Kasumi-Astra Administrator Level: 62  Posts: 1589/1867 EXP: 1971846 For next: 12840 Since: 03-15-04 From: Reading, UK Uni: Sheffield, UK Since last post: 1 day Last activity: 12 hours |
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| The reason World of Warcraft does not feel the same way as Warcraft 2 is because they are completely different games. You interacted with the games in different ways, and the goals are completely different. A game that is set in the Warcraft universe therefore shouldn't need to be an RTS. Of course the game isn't "Warcraft" by nature, what did you expect? You simply can't expect an MMORPG to feel identical an RTS and still make a game people will want to play. The vast majority of fans of the Warcraft games who have also played WoW have praised it's faithful interpretation of the Warcraft universe, and that's all the game could and should ever have achieved. |
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GeckoYamori Paratroopa Level: 18 Posts: 23/153 EXP: 25084 For next: 4813 Since: 05-10-05 Since last post: 1 day Last activity: 7 hours |
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Originally posted by DarkSlayaOriginally posted by GeckoYamori Like what? Major successful titles like San Andreas, or any sports series from EA like Madden are anything but graphic powerhouses. Yet they sell a lot more than games like Doom 3. Xbox had hardware greatly superior to PS2 yet it was outsold several times over. There are many things that contradict your statement. The biggest selling point is and will always be brand recognition. That is why we are showered with the same titles over and over and over. Hell, they're too scared to even give their consoles creative names so they just put a number after it. |
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Dei* Nipper Plant Level: 26 Posts: 14/412 EXP: 97995 For next: 4280 Since: 06-18-05 From: USA, Florida Since last post: 2 days Last activity: 1 day |
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| "The reason World of Warcraft does not feel the same way as Warcraft 2 is because they are completely different games. You interacted with the games in different ways, and the goals are completely different. " This is true, but look at what the company said upon creation of this game, "We hope to make warcraft 3 into a world where one person can level up yada yada blah blah blah blah etc etc etc etc." They tend to pass it off as the sequel and same type of game as the one that came before it in the series, you're missing my point people. |
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DarkSlaya POOOOOOOOOOOORN! Level: 88 Posts: 3736/4249 EXP: 6409254 For next: 241410 Since: 05-16-04 From: Montreal, Quebec, Canada Since last post: 8 hours Last activity: 5 hours |
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| GeckoYamori: Xbox didn't sell because of the thing called "Microsoft hatred". I myself didn't buy it because of that and now regret it. And "major successful titles" like you said, I believe they should because of graphics. (I knew none who had stuff like GTA2, but when the big graphics come out, sure every buys it). |
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GeckoYamori Paratroopa Level: 18 Posts: 25/153 EXP: 25084 For next: 4813 Since: 05-10-05 Since last post: 1 day Last activity: 7 hours |
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| Microsoft hatred only has a strong presence within nerd and semi-nerd subcultures. Otherwise they wouldn't have been enjoying their financial success. Before #3 GTA was first and foremost a PC franchise, and it had relative sucess on that platform. Sony just got the leftovers with some pretty terrible ports. After part 2 Rockstar signed a contract with Sony and the franchise was heavily marketed on a platform which was a lot more accessible to the gaming market. |
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HyperLamer <||bass> and this was the soloution i thought of that was guarinteed to piss off the greatest amount of people Sesshomaru Tamaranian Level: 118 Posts: 5105/8210 EXP: 18171887 For next: 211027 Since: 03-15-04 From: Canada, w00t! LOL FAD Since last post: 2 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
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| I just disagree with the whole thing. Sure, some classics could kick a lot of new games' asses, but there are tons of great new games. Mario Kart Double Dash has to be the best Mario Kart yet. And as good as Zelda and Super Mario Bros were, OoT and Mario 64 blow them the hell away. | |||
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Dei* Nipper Plant Level: 26 Posts: 17/412 EXP: 97995 For next: 4280 Since: 06-18-05 From: USA, Florida Since last post: 2 days Last activity: 1 day |
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| I'm not saying that there aren't any titles out there that still do it the way they used to, like Mario Kart, etc, but i'm saying that there are a number of titles out there that have submerged under people's radar, partly due to hype of the big games and possibly because people dismiss it for something else. You're all assuming that I say all titles have been affected by this.  I'm not saying that at all, but if this keeps happening, more and more people will stray away from what actually made a game. (edited by Dei* on 06-19-05 05:17 PM) (edited by Kasumi-Astra on 06-19-05 08:23 PM) |
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Yoronosuku Bullet Bill YORO 4 GOD Level: 32 Posts: 224/502 EXP: 194954 For next: 11488 Since: 01-06-05 From: hailing from Oyamazaki, Kyoto Since last post: 4 hours Last activity: 4 hours |
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| Dei*, your layout messed up the bottom of this page. Please try to fix that, it is breaking the thread. | |||
NetSplit Koopa Level: 19 Posts: 54/117 EXP: 30378 For next: 5399 Since: 04-05-04 Since last post: 1 day Last activity: 1 hour |
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Originally posted by HyperHackerI do agree with you about this, much because of games like Metroid Prime managing to stack up well against classics considered by some to be the best of all time, but I gotta say that your example sucks; I hate Mario Kart Double Dash. There's something not right about that game; it lost whatever it was that made Mario Kart 64 so fun for me. Hopefully Mario Kart DS will be better; I expect the online capabilities to make it a blast.  |
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