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11-02-05 12:59 PM
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Acmlm's Board - I2 Archive - World Affairs / Debate - Veganism as a growing pillar in American society... | |
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Grey the Stampede

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Posted on 05-25-05 03:56 AM Link | Quote
I challenge you to enter the words "anti veganism" into your local search engine. The population of vegans in America grows by the day, and I was wondering about everyone's opinions on the subject. I've found some interesting pro-vegan material, like this particular article on the biological problems associated with drinking milk:

linky doesn't work It does now

I dunno, that Harvard study was cited incorrectly: There was no conclusive evidence in either direction, when the article claims that people who drank milk were more susceptible to bone fractures.

So, I'm neutral to the whole issue. On the one hand, I sympathize with PETA on the subjects of animal abuse in factories...

But on the other hand, I can't say the vegan lifestyle doesn't go to extremes. I'm really concerned, for example, about my girlfriend hurting herself because she doesn't eat right (she's trying to make the shift from vegetarian to full vegan).

What do you all think?


(edited by Emperor Ziffatine on 05-24-05 10:59 AM)
(edited by Grey on 05-24-05 01:19 PM)
alte Hexe

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Posted on 05-25-05 03:58 AM Link | Quote
Ziff doesn't eat red meat or chicken nowadays. I'm effectively a vegetarian.

But I do not sympathize with militant vegans.
Grey the Stampede

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Posted on 05-25-05 04:15 AM Link | Quote
Alright, now we're getting started...

Why not? Any crazy opinions or ideas you want to share?
Dracoon

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Posted on 05-25-05 04:39 AM Link | Quote
Really, only problem with anything about vegatarians, full fledged, are the people who don't take vitamins and things like that. Really, no problem about it, I don't care about people only eating vegatables (for gods sake don't assume I mean you only eat vegatables, just I'm to lazy to say fruit/veg/blah/blah), but if you ever eat only organic, remind me to kill you where you stand.

I really don't care what people do as long as they aren't hurting anyone else, if you want to be a full fledged vegen, make sure you do watch about some stuff, get your protien and calcium. Yeah... thats about it.
alte Hexe

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Posted on 05-25-05 06:16 AM Link | Quote
Dracoon, I never take vitamin supplements...You know why? I balance my diet so that I get all of the bases cover
Dracoon

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Posted on 05-26-05 03:21 AM Link | Quote
That also works, but a lot of people don't go through the trouble, and its slightly easier.
FireOcean

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Posted on 05-26-05 03:59 AM Link | Quote
Personally, I find vegans to be rather extreme, because all they can eat are fruits, vegetables, legumes, and vitamins. I eat meat, and I'm not afraid to admit it. I think vegans are extreme basically because there are meats that are actually healthy for you, and I think that some people who are vegans can be misinformed. Seriously, who said that chicken or fish, when prepared the right way, is unhealthy for a person?
Cymoro
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Posted on 05-26-05 04:56 AM Link | Quote
I eat meat, usually without a second thought. I mean, Soylent Green I'd be a bit suspicious of, however, any meat is fine for me. Why?

Because. Just because. I just eat it. That's it. I like the taste, even with a bit of A1.

Now, fish I just don't like the taste of. I never really did like the taste of it, and that could be the case with some vegans, and it's not a moral thing at all. That's totally respectable.

Edit: Whoops, forgot to add "I don't mind them, as long as they don't push their views down my throat, thus forcing me to stab them in the god damn eyes."


(edited by Cymoro on 05-25-05 11:58 AM)
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Posted on 05-26-05 08:24 AM Link | Quote
Vegetarians are one thing but vegans are just downright insane. Milking a cow does NOT hurt the cow. Fuck!

Eating meat does not mean you condone cruelty to animals or any of that other stuff that they allegedy do to the animals I consume. Not eating it isn't going to change any of that either.

If meat is murder then muder is damn delicious.
||bass
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Posted on 05-26-05 08:27 AM Link | Quote
I agree that not eating meat as a protest against killing animals accomplishes zero. The human race is more or less dependant on eating meat products, and the natural evolution of our teeth structure tells us that that's how nature intended it.

Legion
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Posted on 05-26-05 08:30 AM Link | Quote
Yeah, which reminds me of that one Maddox article in which he pointed out all the small animals that are needlessly killed in the fields by harvesting machines. At least my animals dont' go to waste.

The point is, you can make anything look bad if you try hard enough.
Grey the Stampede

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Posted on 05-26-05 09:10 AM Link | Quote
Ah, I really didn't want this to turn into a grain harvester debate, before you two get started...

And FireOcean, many people are moral vegans. A lot of the time, Veganism is not a health issue, but one of not harming animals. This is mainly why I didn't want to get into a grain harvester debate, because I want to try a Walden-esque experiment at some point in my life, effectively rendering the grain harvester problems moot.

Does anyone know anything about Less-harm theory?
Legion
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Posted on 05-26-05 09:13 AM Link | Quote
I only brought up the grain harvestor thing to make the point that no one should claim to be righteous because of how they live their lifestyle because no matter what you do, there's always a way to find a negative side about it.

||bass
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Posted on 05-26-05 09:17 AM Link | Quote
Yea I do know about the less harm theory. I also know that grain harvesters kill MILLIONS of animals nationwide. Your typical grain field results in the death of far more animals then even a slaughterhouse.
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Posted on 05-26-05 09:21 AM Link | Quote
Originally posted by ||bass
Yea I do know about the less harm theory. I also know that grain harvesters kill MILLIONS of animals nationwide. Your typical grain field results in the death of far more animals then even a slaughterhouse.


And not to mention that all of those animals go to waste too. At least the animals we eat didn't die in vein.
alte Hexe

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Posted on 05-26-05 09:34 AM Link | Quote
Nope, but the consumption levels of meat actually have detrimental effects on human health. They too often contain too much fats and negative cholestorals.

It's called balance. Don't be an idiot and eat a ham one night, then the next night a burger. Balance your diet, and be healthy. Eat fish, eat tofu, eat lots of beans. Balance the diet.
||bass
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Posted on 05-26-05 09:48 AM Link | Quote


Time for biology 101 with ||bass.
A common mistake vegatatarians commonly make is the assumption that killing animals is somehow not natural for humans. Nothing could be farther from the truth. All scientific evidence about human digestion suggests that humans are ment to eat both plants AND ANIMALS. The human jaw and teeth contains structures intended to eat animal flesh as well as tough plant matter.

Did you even know that the appendix is thought to have aided in the digestion of raw and undercooked meat for early caveman?


(edited by ||bass on 05-25-05 04:50 PM)
(edited by ||bass on 05-25-05 04:51 PM)
alte Hexe

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Posted on 05-26-05 09:51 AM Link | Quote
I should point to the human digestive system as a need to strictly balance your diet. Nevermind that our teeth are primarily there for crushing and grinding. Not tearing, like other meat eaters. Nor do we have serration. The human body is designed to eat more fruits and vegetables than meats.
||bass
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Posted on 05-26-05 09:55 AM Link | Quote
Last I checked. The main function of incisors are to tear and the main function of canines are to puncture. Both traits of teeth designed for the consumption of meet. The reason our teeth don't have serration is because we don't kill by means of our teeth.

PS: Does anyone know why my layout pushes all my "edited by ||bass" comments to the top of the whole page?


(edited by ||bass on 05-25-05 04:56 PM)
alte Hexe

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Posted on 05-26-05 09:58 AM Link | Quote
You kill an animal with those teeth. And then you tell me how your digestive system works if all you eat is meat. There is a reason we are omnivores. We are meant to eat both. But current science indicates that although meat is good for you, over consumption is not. Early humans would eat more fruits and vegetables than meat. It was easier to get, easier to prepare, safer, and was more nutritious in what they needed. Not to mention easier to store.

Then again, you would know everything, you found a picture of TEETH. And since you have doctoral degrees in evolutionary sciences, nutrition and other fields, I suppose you are the authority.

Honest to God, common sense in here just took a deadly dumb plunge.


(edited by Emperor Ziffatine on 05-25-05 05:00 PM)
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