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| Acmlm's Board - I2 Archive - World Affairs / Debate - Why do you think Jesus Exists? |
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Jei*376 Micro-Goomba Level: 6 Posts: 8/13 EXP: 744 For next: 163 Since: 02-22-05 Since last post: 173 days Last activity: 173 days |
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| I have read all this topic about this and so far, the only thing I can see prevelant about denying Jesus Christ, his exsistence in life and his being....is lack of faith. Lord knows, it isn't the lack of his exsistence. Why? Because both Christian and secular accounts - 500 independent sources, people, ok? - have confirmed his being AFTER the crucufixtion. Now correct me if I am wrong but that in itself, supernatural as it may be to our pathetic human brains, tells you not only that Jesus exsisted in reality, that not only was he endowed with greater power than we can even begin to fathom, but that he was God in flesh. How so> Who else ever in history, through science or religious channels, have you ever known to have been killed then reanimate perfectly sound in 3 days and have 500+ recorded and verified instances of your being be recorded? Can you think of any? Lack of faith people, not lack of proof. God never had to prove a thing and if you don't believe now, you never will. but if you will downtalk a religious belief or whatever, do yourselves a favor and at least KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT BEFORE OPENING YOUR MOUTH! Know your 'facts, sceince and proof" then make judgement because you can't judge without your proof. i have given my proof, so I can talk. Not because I am Christian, not because I have 'religion' because I believe. because I don't need to see to believe. The wind is invisible....yet it is there. How do I know...for crying out loud, how nam I alive without it? It's called faith. Try it on someday, you may learn more than you ever thought you could. Or keep making excuses not to, but don't say Jesus never exsisted, etc., when proof clearly shows, not only his exsistence, but his power and influence as well. He is not a ghost. He was real. Think about it! |
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alte Hexe Star Mario I dreamed I saw Joe Hill last night Alive as you and me "But Joe you're ten years dead!" "I never died" said he "I never died!" said he Level: 99  Posts: 3764/5458 EXP: 9854489 For next: 145511 Since: 03-15-04 From: ... Since last post: 2 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
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| Then why do you HAVE to antagonize staff? I have no personal problem with you. Just act like the rest of the board and show people respect. Jei - I can. There have been lots of fakes of people coming back to the dead through history. Many in this century. There is also the constant reincarnation of Siharta Guatama. What make's Jesus' ressurection remarkable is that it is recorded by the Roman Empire, Greek merchants, Pagan groups, Jewish sources and Alexandrian records that were translated after the Crusades. That's what is incredible. The actual sources, not the amount. |
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geeogree Bloober Level: 34  Posts: 352/448 EXP: 231583 For next: 22068 Since: 03-16-04 From: Calgary, Canada Since last post: 1 day Last activity: 11 hours |
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| "Then you have complete and utter douches like geeogree that should choke on their own vomit. " that doesn't sound like no problem to me |
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alte Hexe Star Mario I dreamed I saw Joe Hill last night Alive as you and me "But Joe you're ten years dead!" "I never died" said he "I never died!" said he Level: 99 Posts: 3765/5458 EXP: 9854489 For next: 145511 Since: 03-15-04 From: ... Since last post: 2 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
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Well. As you can see from previous posts that you can really erk people.  But that is simply semantics. You going to try to fly straight, or are you going to continue your little trip? |
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geeogree Bloober Level: 34 Posts: 353/448 EXP: 231583 For next: 22068 Since: 03-16-04 From: Calgary, Canada Since last post: 1 day Last activity: 11 hours |
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| of course not.... I can see the limits.... the real reason I pushed so much is because you made such a fuss about it.... I was entertained |
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knuck Hinox Banned until 19-58-5815: trolling, flaming, spamming, being a general fucktard... Level: 62 Posts: 1247/1818 EXP: 1894574 For next: 90112 Since: 03-15-04 Since last post: 14 hours Last activity: 9 hours |
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Originally posted by Jei*376No you didn't. You pretty much said what everyone knows: Jesus died and after 3 days he was revived. Anyone can write a book and fill it with stuff. it just sucks when lots of people believe in it. =( Now show me some proof please.  |
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Legion banning people for no reason sure is fun Level: 101  Posts: 3666/5657 EXP: 10399737 For next: 317938 Since: 03-15-04 From: The Crossroads is under attack! Since last post: 5 days Last activity: 5 days |
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Originally posted by knuckOriginally posted by Jei*376No you didn't. You pretty much said what everyone knows: Jesus died and after 3 days he was revived. Hey hey! I'd like to see the same proof too. |
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Dracoon Zelda The temp ban/forum ban bypasser! Level: 84  Posts: 2947/3727 EXP: 5514391 For next: 147561 Since: 03-25-04 From: At home Since last post: 5 hours Last activity: 5 hours |
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| "...and have 500+ recorded and verified instances of your being be recorded? Can you think of any?" Ziff just listed a few of the groups wh say they saw it. Read please  |
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seanbabaganoosh Paragoomba Level: 13  Posts: 24/71 EXP: 8476 For next: 1791 Since: 04-15-05 From: Canada Since last post: 59 days Last activity: 59 days |
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| Has anyone actually seen one billion dollars in cash? Can you prove that it exists? Just because you can't see it, doesn't mean it cannot exist. (edited by seanbabaganoosh on 05-11-05 08:22 AM) |
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Legion banning people for no reason sure is fun Level: 101 Posts: 3667/5657 EXP: 10399737 For next: 317938 Since: 03-15-04 From: The Crossroads is under attack! Since last post: 5 days Last activity: 5 days |
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Originally posted by Dracoon Originally posted by knuck knuck said he wanted proof, not stories. |
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alte Hexe Star Mario I dreamed I saw Joe Hill last night Alive as you and me "But Joe you're ten years dead!" "I never died" said he "I never died!" said he Level: 99 Posts: 3767/5458 EXP: 9854489 For next: 145511 Since: 03-15-04 From: ... Since last post: 2 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
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| Well, there are the stories in the Apocrypha. And about a few dozen "lost" gospels that are primarily epistles AKA, secular accounts. I mean, Leg, knuck...If you want to get me access to the Greek, Italian, Egyptian and Israeli nation archives as well as the Vatican archives I can get you the info right for your eyes. You just need to make me into a certified professor who is trained to handle these things, and pay for my air fare if you want ABSOLUTE proof. Otherwise, you'll just have to go on common knowledge. But jei, having a comment doesn't entitle you to complete and utter knowledge of all. |
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Legion banning people for no reason sure is fun Level: 101 Posts: 3668/5657 EXP: 10399737 For next: 317938 Since: 03-15-04 From: The Crossroads is under attack! Since last post: 5 days Last activity: 5 days |
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| Behold! Artifact. (Kwan gets credit for link.  )If that isn't proof, then I don't know WHAT is. |
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knuck Hinox Banned until 19-58-5815: trolling, flaming, spamming, being a general fucktard... Level: 62 Posts: 1248/1818 EXP: 1894574 For next: 90112 Since: 03-15-04 Since last post: 14 hours Last activity: 9 hours |
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Originally posted by Emperor Ziffatine Originally posted by knuckAnd as Leg said, I want proof, not stories.  And Leg thats win xD. |
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alte Hexe Star Mario I dreamed I saw Joe Hill last night Alive as you and me "But Joe you're ten years dead!" "I never died" said he "I never died!" said he Level: 99 Posts: 3768/5458 EXP: 9854489 For next: 145511 Since: 03-15-04 From: ... Since last post: 2 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
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| I'm sorry guys, but either you keep it serious, or get out. | |||
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Jei*376 Micro-Goomba Level: 6 Posts: 9/13 EXP: 744 For next: 163 Since: 02-22-05 Since last post: 173 days Last activity: 173 days |
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| I have provided you proof. If 500+ people, who were different walsk of life, both believer and unbeliever alike, saw Jesus resurrected after his death, how much more proof do you need? He was dead, people. He had been beaten to heck worse than any other before or after him. His hands were pierced and nailed to a cross and his feet, impaled through the toes and gams, also staked into the cross he was hung on. His sides were impaled with lances as his blood gushed outwards and squirted to the ground. He was on that cross hours and hours until he finally died. Granted they didn't have CSI-type machinery back then to test someone's pulse but you don't need to be a doctor or require a heart monitor to test someone's pulse and find it non-exsistant, see their body a bluish-green color (the color of dead body) and to know that a warm body that goes completely cold means it is dead. Nobody stole his body from the grave. Roman soldiers (who were unbelievers in those days and anti-Christians) guarded the tomb day and night until his resurrection which, when they rolled the stone away, found no body, just His wrapped, soiled linens he was buried in. That is the so-called Shroud of Tourin and I don't really hold much faith in that piece of cloth b/c it means nothing. Tat is like assuming the sandals Jesus wears somehow has magical power or religious significance...they don't. They are objects and material things. Jesus, not a shroud or sandal, is the focus here. I gave you proof. You have it You just don't believe and that is fine. It's called free will and we all have it. But to genrally say he doesn't exsist is wrong. Because while we cannot prove he exists as you wish it to be proven, YOU cannot prove he doesn't exsist, lest your faithlesness and unbelief, which is YOUR prerogative alone and not to be generalized as if all think like you when you say blandly 'they don't exsist'. If the proof you demand is the kind where you expect God to come to your face and show himself to you like you are anything important, gues again. God is not a circus attraction that he shows himself to unbelievers just so they can believe. Then it wouldn't be much of faith you believed in. It would be typical Liberal/Atheist style - 'if I don't see it, I don't believe it". Sorry, the God I serve is no Sideshow Bob to put himself on display like a museum exhibit. He isn't a clown who parades around showing himself to people who don't believe. He lives and is - believe it or not it is your choice. And since you asked me to prove his exsistance, which I did but you didn't accept because he wasn't putting on a show for your satisfaction, how about you unbelvers do me a favor: Prove he doesn't exsist. And non of this 'Big Bang' scientific theory crap because theory isn't fact. It is assumption and a scientist will tell you that also, not just religious scholars. I mean show me proof of God/Jesus non-exsistance and I will shut up. Please, prove me wrong with irrefutable and undeniable evidence. (edited by Jei*376 on 05-11-05 11:07 AM) |
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Tamarin Calanis We exist. Earth exists. The universe exists. Do we really need to know why? Level: 59 Posts: 527/1802 EXP: 1672751 For next: 377 Since: 07-12-04 From: The gas station on the corner... Since last post: 5 hours Last activity: 5 hours |
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| You claim to have provided facts, yet all you've said is that 500 people from different walks of life saw him. There is no proof of this. You do not have any sources that you have referenced, and therefore all you have given us is hearsay. Try again. |
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knuck Hinox Banned until 19-58-5815: trolling, flaming, spamming, being a general fucktard... Level: 62 Posts: 1249/1818 EXP: 1894574 For next: 90112 Since: 03-15-04 Since last post: 14 hours Last activity: 9 hours |
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Originally posted by Jei*376Prove me that 500+ people saw Jesus resurrected. Originally posted by Jei*376Yeah he only shows up when it's time to flood earth. Originally posted by Jei*376God and creationism are just theories too. |
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Rydain Ropa Blaze Phoenix Runs With the Dragon Within Level: 42  Posts: 568/738 EXP: 490056 For next: 31306 Since: 03-15-04 From: State College, PA Since last post: 6 days Last activity: 8 hours |
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Originally posted by Jei*376Considering that you are the one claiming the existence of an extraordinary supernatural being, the burden of proof to demonstrate it lies squarely on you. Underpants gnomes live in my basement. I never see them or hear them, but I know they must be there because underwear sometimes gets "lost" in the laundry. Rando wouldn't steal my undies (and I have no use for his) and our cats are physically incapable of making our clothing disappear, and nobody who comes to visit ever goes near the laundry pile, so it must be the gnomes' fault. How would you prove that the underpants gnomes do not exist? Or, for that matter, fairies, leprechauns, Oompa Loompas, orcs, or Super Mario? Furthermore, your comment about the Big Bang is way off. You seem to be using the common vernacular definition of theory (i.e. a guess or hypothesis) in reference to a scientific theory. That is incorrect. In science, a theory is a set of explanations for observations. For example, heliocentric theory describes how the earth goes around the sun - a phenomenon that is a pretty damn well-established fact. Furthermore, you imply that accepting the Big Bang as the most likely explanation for the beginning of the universe and believing that God started the entire thing are mutually exclusive, which is flat-out wrong as well. Who's to say that God didn't use the Big Bang as His method of creation? Many religious people (including astronomists) believe just that. |
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Jei*376 Micro-Goomba Level: 6 Posts: 10/13 EXP: 744 For next: 163 Since: 02-22-05 Since last post: 173 days Last activity: 173 days |
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| The burden of proof is not on me just because I believe God exsists. Nice try though. See, the one's who deny are the ones who need proof. I don't deny and need no proof beyond his Word. Jesus was right; "Lest a man be born again, he cannot enter the Kingdom of Heaven". As this implies, being born again isn't some title. it opens your eyes to understand the book you shame and call old and dusty. You can't prove your theory that God does not exsist and I prove he did by his Book called the Bible. But I know, this is evidence you won'tbelieve because God, in his mighty hand did not physically come down here, touch those Holy pages and inscribe the book himself in his own handwriting word for word. instead, he had Moses write the first 5 books which explain the originas of life in Genesis to the book of Numbers. Other followed thereafter. Now you guys can dance around and say the Bible, because it was written by men, that it is subject to error and prejudice and whatever other human corruption you can think of. However, this only means you further disbelieve the fact that, while men did right the bible, it was inspired wholly by God himself. Of course, you guys will also refute this and debate it to death saying this doens't prove he exsists! But it doesn't prove he doens't exsist either. in fact the Bible makes clear that he exsists. But you won't acknowledge it because for one, that means you would have to admit you were wrong all this time. Trying to swallow that big a lump of pride is equivelant to trying to swallow a large ice cube and hoping not to choke. Furthermore, it would also mean that everything you thought to this point was wrong. Coming to terms with the truth is hard. Too hard for most people. But the truth is the truth. Just because God himself didn't lay his mighty finger on the original Dead Sea Scrolls and write the book himself doens't mean it isn't his word or his divine inspiration which man was told to write exacty as God worded it. Your denial of the truth in the Bible in no way negates or invalidates the validity or doctrine contained in the Bible. Just because you deny the Bible as God's word and written under his strict supervision, order and authority does not mean it didn't happen that way. it just means you are an unbeliver and that's all. Further proof God exsists is everything you see around you - including yourself. We did not develope from a primitve puddle of goo or evolve from apes or marine life or space gases or extra-terrestrials playing humanity games with us. Everything you see in life including yourself is too unique and fragile to have "just happened" and even a monkey brain can see that. Did God have anything to do with Big Bang? Sure he did! God said "Let there be Now youc an dance around the issue of God's exsistence all you want to. You can take my evidence, which is the Bible and base that for your 'proof'. Or you can do like I know you will and deny it through your teeth and say "awww, man wrote those...so I don't believe until I see him myself". My friends, you don't realize that the day you see God....youa re already dead. You better hope you thought wisely before that time because you will not have a second chance. This is it. You don't have to give a darn one bit. You don't have to believe and you don't have to have faith....hey we all have free will. But I have given you your evidence. Whether you accept it or not as proof is your choice. If you don't, then you really didn't want proof of his exsistance (other than a real-life face-to-face with the man himself which won't happen), you wanted a stupid secular debate as to why you should continue to make excuses to not believe or hear the truth. In which case, you're lost and nothing more say or do will change that until you, yourselves, wake up. Eat it up people....read the book or else, don't claim he doesn't exsist when you won't even look at the eevidence that says he does just because you know you will find the truth too hard to bear from a 'religious' book you don't even believe about a God you don't believe in. |
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Rydain Ropa Blaze Phoenix Runs With the Dragon Within Level: 42 Posts: 570/738 EXP: 490056 For next: 31306 Since: 03-15-04 From: State College, PA Since last post: 6 days Last activity: 8 hours |
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| I don't have time for a long reply before I go to work, but here are a few points to ponder: You didn't answer my question about how one could go about disproving the existence of a being that does not leave any direct physical evidence. Can you disprove the underpants gnomes in my basement? Why or why not? How would you go about doing this? The Bible does not prove the existence of God because the Bible said so. That's circular logic, which is fallacious. Should we all go kissing Hank's ass because a self-proving list says he exists and will kick the shit out of you if you don't suck up to him? Edit - I removed the comment about Pascal's Wager because that wasn't what you said. My apologies for misreading you. Do some reading on evolutionary theory and the vast body of evidence behind it before you make snarky comments along the lines of "Even an idiot can see that we're designed". Getting on a high horse does not at all constitute providing evidence in support of your claim. (edited by Narf Vader on 05-12-05 10:08 AM) |
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