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| Acmlm's Board - I2 Archive - World Affairs / Debate - [rantage] Opinions < law / statistics in government. |
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windwaker Ball and Chain Trooper WHY ALL THE MAYONNAISE HATE Level: 61  Posts: 1358/1797 EXP: 1860597 For next: 15999 Since: 03-15-04 Since last post: 4 days Last activity: 6 days |
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| I don't see why so many people don't understand this. I'm not pointing any partisan fingers, both parties in America have been guilty of this. Like with the "omg gay = dai IT'S UNNATURAL" thing, that's an opinion, yet the thought of restricting a right of a human in America is unconstitutional. BUT WAIT DON'T FORGET THE BIBLE OMG. IT'S SO NOT OPINION. People don't like the thought of homosexual intercourse, therefore they make the decision to be ANTI OMG GAY before they really think about it, then come up with excuses to support their opinion in the future, because they don't want the shame of turning on something they've supported for so long. This isn't just for the homosexual thing though. Think about it, like with abortion, the judges in the supreme court don't really think about the law AT ALL. It's their job to interpret the law, but they would seldom do this. It's all opinions, there's no interpreting the law there. People just don't understand that sometimes there'll be things that happen that aren't against the law, that you don't agree with... but they don't stand for it, they let their opinions lead them into blind support of something. Of course, opinions on laws do exist, if one has to create a law that doesn't controdict another, or in other cases. Though, take Bush or any other president putting judges on the supreme court. Nor he, nor anybody else actually puts someone there to interpret the law in an unbiased way, he puts them there to judge based on what party they represent, which is horrible, and people have come to EXPECT that from people in power these days. Does anyone believe something similar to this, or that opinions should dictate the way one thinks, rather than laws? (edited by windwaker on 03-27-05 10:14 PM) |
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MathOnNapkins Math n' Hacks Level: 67  Posts: 1652/2189 EXP: 2495887 For next: 96985 Since: 03-18-04 From: Base Tourian Since last post: 1 hour Last activity: 32 min. |
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| For the love of Mary and Joseph please stop mixing internet stuff like OMG in with otherwise intellegible writing. It's harder to take you seriously when you do that, especially in this forum. And yes, I do believe that people are often blinded by their religion when it comes to dealing with laws. I guarantee if we had mormons running the nation that pop and coffee would be banned everywhere. Not that I care that much about things like that, but what one person finds acceptable is not always law. I think laws should be meant to protect people from others, and even from the government, rather than controlling their behavior. |
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Kitten Yiffer Purple wand Furry moderator Vivent l'exp����¯�¿�½������©rience de signalisation d'amusement, ou bien ! Level: 135 Posts: 8939/11162 EXP: 28824106 For next: 510899 Since: 03-15-04 From: Sweden Since last post: 3 hours Last activity: 4 min. |
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| Oddly we visit the church alot in Sweden, yet we don't have alot opinions against gay people. There is a small christian party against gays in Sweden but that's about it. And we do have same sex marriage in Sweden, I see no problems whatsoever arising becuse of it. Well, I try to personally follow my own opinion. Therefore i'm not getting attached to an certain party but just elect the party who seems the best for the moment. |
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Grey the Stampede Don't mess with powers you don't understand. And yes. That means donuts. Level: 82  Posts: 2054/3770 EXP: 5192909 For next: 16318 Since: 06-17-04 From: Kingston, RI, USA, Earth Since last post: 2 hours Last activity: 1 hour |
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Originally posted by Kitten Yiffer Kitten Yiffer: Your political parties also don't take their roots in slavery, bigotry, and base their views off of religion. Chruch and state need to be kept separate. The religious right shouldn't be allowed to exist, period, because they're basing their views off of a religion that an ever-increasing number of Americans do not follow. Eventually, Christianity is going ot become a minority in the face of the other religions exhibited in America, and the views expresed by it in our government are going to be made null and void. This needs to happen faster, and it needs to happen with extreme ferocity. windwaker's point about politicians considering the bible fact is perfect; Our nation was founded under christianity, but that doesn't somehow give the faith some kind of lawmaking loophole that allows its views to be interjected into daily American life. If it were, we'd still have slaves, and spousal abuse would be legal. If gay marriage is unnatural because the bible says it is, does that make the ardent abuse of women portrayed in the bible justified and therefore legal? I don't think so. |
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HGanon Red Paragoomba Level: 12 Posts: 48/59 EXP: 7041 For next: 880 Since: 03-06-05 Since last post: 104 days Last activity: 9 hours |
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Originally posted by windwaker That's NOT an opinion. How can you say that when it's a fact you need 1 male and 1 female to reproduce? |
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Tamarin Calanis We exist. Earth exists. The universe exists. Do we really need to know why? Level: 59 Posts: 401/1802 EXP: 1672751 For next: 377 Since: 07-12-04 From: The gas station on the corner... Since last post: 5 hours Last activity: 5 hours |
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Originally posted by HGanonI hope to avoid this turning into a gay marriage debate, but I'm gonna say this. WHO SAYS MARRIED PEOPLE HAVE TO HAVE KIDS?! There's a lot of hetero couples that never have kids, but you never complain about THAT, do you?  |
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HGanon Red Paragoomba Level: 12 Posts: 49/59 EXP: 7041 For next: 880 Since: 03-06-05 Since last post: 104 days Last activity: 9 hours |
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| That's different. They're physically able to have kids. | |||
Ran-chan Moldorm eek, when are they going to stop growing... Level: 143  Posts: 8619/12781 EXP: 35293588 For next: 538220 Since: 03-15-04 From: Nerima District, Tokyo - Japan Since last post: 12 hours Last activity: 12 hours |
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Originally posted by Kitten Yiffer Sverigedemokraterna and Nationalsocialistisk Front. I |
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Tamarin Calanis We exist. Earth exists. The universe exists. Do we really need to know why? Level: 59 Posts: 403/1802 EXP: 1672751 For next: 377 Since: 07-12-04 From: The gas station on the corner... Since last post: 5 hours Last activity: 5 hours |
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Originally posted by HGanonNot always. There are physical difficulties they can come across that hinder or prevent reproduction. But you've never said we shouldn't let infertile people get married. windwaker, politics and law will always be influenced by opinions that are unsupported by facts. Not a thing we can really do. It's human nature to make life difficult for people who are different in whatever way, be it religion, sexual orientation, or anything else you can think of. Well, I tried to stay on topic. |
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HGanon Red Paragoomba Level: 12 Posts: 50/59 EXP: 7041 For next: 880 Since: 03-06-05 Since last post: 104 days Last activity: 9 hours |
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| TC: I'm not trying to start an argument, but marriage is between a man and woman, because 'naturally' they are able to reproduce. They don't HAVE to be able to have kids, or even want to, but if you go back to the beginning, males and females are meant to reproduce with one another. That sets the precedent for marriage. It doesn't just come down to love. | |||
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MathOnNapkins Math n' Hacks Level: 67 Posts: 1653/2189 EXP: 2495887 For next: 96985 Since: 03-18-04 From: Base Tourian Since last post: 1 hour Last activity: 32 min. |
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| HGanon: So you're saying Marriage = Love + Pragmatism? That people only get married to love each other AND make babies... If that's the definition, it seems trivial to allow gays to marry, for many of them want to be adoptive of orphans and such. There are lots of kids in the foster circuit who could use an adoptive set of parents. So obviously such a family would serve a purpose, in putting forth more units capable of raising children. Your argument boils down to "It shouldn't be marriage because people have never "married" that way before." Which is essentially closemindedness, not morals or ethics. Please be frank, these couldn't possibly be your actual views on the matter? |
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alte Hexe Star Mario I dreamed I saw Joe Hill last night Alive as you and me "But Joe you're ten years dead!" "I never died" said he "I never died!" said he Level: 99  Posts: 3409/5458 EXP: 9854489 For next: 145511 Since: 03-15-04 From: ... Since last post: 2 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
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| No. Anthropologists claim that marriage was the union of love...NAH!...Anyone can have a fucking kid out of wedlock. It is more cost-effective in the long run for a community to have single mothers raising children while working back in the old sedentiary agricultural days. Nope. Marriages are purely economic. It was simply a way of ensuring the passing of wealth through the daughter to grandsons. | |||
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windwaker Ball and Chain Trooper WHY ALL THE MAYONNAISE HATE Level: 61 Posts: 1364/1797 EXP: 1860597 For next: 15999 Since: 03-15-04 Since last post: 4 days Last activity: 6 days |
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Originally posted by HGanon Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you... Compassionate conservatism.  That's NOT an opinion. How can you say that when it's a fact you need 1 male and 1 female to reproduce? Marriage != reproduction. What are you basing any of this on, except the fact that "EW MALE ON MALE ACTION IS DISGUUUUUUSTING OPINION TIME" is what you believe. A Grade A example of the biased rule in our government. They don't HAVE to be able to have kids Yet you're basing your anti-gay marriage on "marriage = man and woman reproducing"?  For the love of Mary and Joseph please stop mixing internet stuff like OMG in with otherwise intellegible writing. It's harder to take you seriously when you do that, especially in this forum. Hey, I'm not the one who says "OMGOMGOMG GAY DIE". (edited by windwaker on 03-28-05 09:06 PM) |
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Cruel Justice XD Level: 55  Posts: 752/1384 EXP: 1253266 For next: 60923 Since: 03-20-04 From: Darkwoods Penetentiary Since last post: 11 hours Last activity: 7 hours |
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| Gay or indifferent, some people simply find it more palletable to love one another without the burden of children. They want to keep things simple and gay people can most definately satisfy themselves that way. If they want to be gay, so what, it's their choice, not ours. From a religious standpoint, I can understand why chrisitans would find it wrong; the bible states it's a sin to sodomize. Telling people to not be gay is about as bad as attempting to convert everyone into chrisitians, otherwise condemning gays. No one can necessarily say "God hates you because your gay! You're going to hell!", because no one on earth has the right to dictate the "proper" anything. |
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HGanon Red Paragoomba Level: 12 Posts: 51/59 EXP: 7041 For next: 880 Since: 03-06-05 Since last post: 104 days Last activity: 9 hours |
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| WW: I'm basing it on scientific facts. Unlike animals, humans choose a mate that they wish to live their lives with, and continue on their family, only into today's world it goes much deeper, as you're willing to share every aspect of your life. That was ONE of my reasons to be against it, naturally gays can't have kids with each other. I'm not gonna argue any further, seeing my points will just be teared apart and made out to be prejudiced. I never said anything about the death of gays, if that's what your last line is about. CJ: I'm religious, but I don't believe God hates gays, nor do I. |
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Gavin Fuzzy Rhinoceruses don't play games. They fucking charge your ass. Level: 43  Posts: 565/799 EXP: 551711 For next: 13335 Since: 03-15-04 From: IL, USA Since last post: 13 hours Last activity: 13 hours |
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Originally posted by HGanon reproduction and the miracle of love are two entirely separate events. You can have love without reproduction, and reproduction without love. It might not agree with your religion, but you know what? last time i checked we didn't have a state religion, and i'll be damned if the government should tell me how to love. Originally posted by HGanon You're basing nothing on scientific facts. Marriage is not needed for reproduction, and in fact it's increasingly becoming less and less a staple of a healthy family. What is that fact, 50% of americans marriages end in divorce? Furthermore, your logic makes no sense. You say gays shouldn't marry because they can't have kids. Yet a male and a female are allowed to marry without having kids. So by your reasoning we should be imposing a stipulation that any married couples must give birth within 5 years or their marriage is void, because you know, people who are married and don't/can't have kids makes marriage meaningless. And you're wrong, what you are saying is entirely prejudice, you just don't see it. Men and Women who marry and don't have children are okay. Men and Men/Women and Women who marry and don't have kids are not okay... am i missing how this is not belittling homosexuals?? And what about Men/Women who have tubes tied and are physically, permanently unable to have children, yet get married? By physical reproduction standards, they are exactly in the same boat as the gays, yet they are allowed?!? *cough*doublestandard*cough* Listen man, i'm not gay, i just don't swing that way, but i kinda have this thing about closemindedness, especially with marriage considering it's disrespectful and intolerant history with blacks and women. And furthermore, i have another extremely important and serious question for you: Why the fuck would you care if two males got married??? I don't much like body piercing (just not my thing), but do i go around proposing ammendments to the constitution suggesting that piercings violate the sancitity of the body?? Of course not, why? Because it's not my freaking body, it's not my life. If marriage is truly this great institution in your mind, an amazing way to share your life and continue your family, then two guys in maine walking down the isle shouldn't rain on your parade. I don't let critics of movies who give them bad ratings influence my opinion of movies. If a movie is good, i know it's good, to hell with Ebert. It must truly only be a small person who let's something so petty ruin something they loved so much. Sweet, HGanon says he doesn't believe God hates gays, so they don't have to burn in agony for eternity after all! Score one for the gays |
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Gray Micro-Goomba Level: 5 Posts: 4/10 EXP: 463 For next: 66 Since: 04-01-05 Since last post: 214 days Last activity: 64 days |
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| lol gavin u dont make ne snese cuz u r in swedish hganon is smart i lik his ideaz the bibl iz rite and u r all rong bcause jesus died 4 our sins i dun h8 gays ether but i dont wnna b gay |
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Gavin Fuzzy Rhinoceruses don't play games. They fucking charge your ass. Level: 43 Posts: 600/799 EXP: 551711 For next: 13335 Since: 03-15-04 From: IL, USA Since last post: 13 hours Last activity: 13 hours |
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| lolz that's great foryou bt th3 bibl3 sh0uld neVar become officially embeded in our federal or state laws because that's not how our government works lolz!11 lolz HGanon's points were refuted lolz and s0 w4s j0!! |
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Vystrix Nexoth Level: 30 Posts: 292/348 EXP: 158678 For next: 7191 Since: 03-15-04 From: somewhere between anima and animus Since last post: 3 days Last activity: 2 days |
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Originally posted by HGanonOriginally posted by windwaker Celibacy is unnatural as well. After all, humans have a libido (sex drive) and that is natural (God-given, if you want to view it that way): it is natural to want to have sex. Yet we are taught to suppress that, especially by the Christian Right. You cannot invoke nature if you do so only when it supports your position ("same-sex relationships are unnatural and therefore bad") and dismiss it when it does not ("you ought to be celibate despite celibacy being unnatural"). (Note: I'm not saying "celibacy is bad".) (edited by Vystrix Nexoth on 04-02-05 10:37 PM) |
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Dracoon Zelda The temp ban/forum ban bypasser! Level: 84  Posts: 2816/3727 EXP: 5514391 For next: 147561 Since: 03-25-04 From: At home Since last post: 5 hours Last activity: 5 hours |
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| Grey, just some minor nit picks in your post. Cathiic religion is shrinking, last time I checked in this area, Protestant is increasing. Most churches realize that time has created a differnce between what was fine back then and what is now. It is also accepted that the bible was written by man. Anyways, I don't care, the church recognizing marriage CAN'T change. Only what the government recognizes. |
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