 |
| Register | Login | |||||
 |
Main
| Memberlist
| Active users
| ACS
| Commons
| Calendar
| Online users Ranks | FAQ | Color Chart | Photo album | IRC Chat |
|
| | ||
|
| Register | Login | |||||
|
Main
| Memberlist
| Active users
| ACS
| Commons
| Calendar
| Online users Ranks | FAQ | Color Chart | Photo album | IRC Chat |
|
| | ||
| 0 user currently in World Affairs / Debate. |
| Acmlm's Board - I2 Archive - World Affairs / Debate - ANWAR |
 |  |  |
| Pages: 1 2 | Add to favorites | "RSS" Feed | Next newer thread | Next older thread |
| User | Post | ||
|
Kefka Indefinitely Unbanned Level: 81 Posts: 2591/3392 EXP: 4826208 For next: 166641 Since: 03-15-04 From: Pomona, CALIFORNIA BABY! Since last post: 4 hours Last activity: 4 hours |
| ||
| Why wasn't there a friggin topic about this BEFORE? Hell, they voted on it like, 2 days ago. Anyway, what do you think about drilling for oil in America? They already voted yes (51-49). Do you agree or disagree? Did you think it was a hasty decision, or do you believe that it is what we must do at this point? Do you think that big ferocious polar bears should actually be viewed as cute and cuddly for some reason, or do you think that big hunky men who do the drilling are sexy beasts? Thoughts people. Again, I'm surprised no one else thought to make a topic on it in the weeks leading up to the vote or the day of the vote. |
|||
Cruel Justice XD Level: 55  Posts: 718/1384 EXP: 1253266 For next: 60923 Since: 03-20-04 From: Darkwoods Penetentiary Since last post: 11 hours Last activity: 7 hours |
| ||
| I think people in the fatass h2s and other oil-hogging behemoths would be better off without oil. They should limit the oil strictly to purposful transportation such as freightliners, ships, airplanes, and buses. If people here feel the absolute need to cram oil in their vehicles just to crash and burn, don't drill for oil, save it for later. Some rich people are too stubborn and afraid to think 100 steps ahead. |
|||
windwaker Ball and Chain Trooper WHY ALL THE MAYONNAISE HATE Level: 61  Posts: 1316/1797 EXP: 1860597 For next: 15999 Since: 03-15-04 Since last post: 4 days Last activity: 6 days |
| ||
| Yeah, like Raven said, some rich people are too stubborn and afraid to look ahead. Why dig for oil when it's going to run out? Why don't we make transit oil free and place our energy there? | |||
Grey the Stampede Don't mess with powers you don't understand. And yes. That means donuts. Level: 82  Posts: 1982/3770 EXP: 5192909 For next: 16318 Since: 06-17-04 From: Kingston, RI, USA, Earth Since last post: 2 hours Last activity: 1 hour |
| ||
| I believe nuclear, solar, and hydrogen research will take us much further than fossil fuels ever can in the development of efficient energy management practices. I also have a fervent dislike for the fossil fuel industry for their money-grubbing and their constant release of CO2 gas into the atmosphere, which I believe will eventually choke the earth and melt the polar ice caps, putting 80% of the American population underwater. I believe the Bush administration is being pulled at the strings by corporations such as Halliburton, and that antitrust legislation is what we desperately need right now. I believe we're being distracted by our overseas conflicts while domestic policies are being flitted under our noses. Finally, I believe polar bears are beautiful, majestic creatures that deserve our respect and attention. Especially since they're tough enough to rip a human being apart with their eyebrows. |
|||
hhallahh Bob-Omb Level: 38  Posts: 523/607 EXP: 365476 For next: 4971 Since: 03-15-04 From: Portland, OR Since last post: 73 days Last activity: 60 days |
| ||
| My only concern with ANWAR is whether we should be so hasty to tap it. Although I'm not really worried about Peak Oil, I'm not sure that it's in our long-run interests to use this source up now. | |||
|
Kefka Indefinitely Unbanned Level: 81 Posts: 2594/3392 EXP: 4826208 For next: 166641 Since: 03-15-04 From: Pomona, CALIFORNIA BABY! Since last post: 4 hours Last activity: 4 hours |
| ||
Originally posted by Grey Problems: Nuclear: we really don't know what to do with the waste. We hav to store it somewhere, because it just can't be "dumped." It is mostly being stored in the plants they are made in right now, but that can't last forever. There are several places they are thinking about storing it, and one place is in some mines near Las Vegas. However, like all the other places on the list, Las Vegas is taking a "not in my backyard" stance. Solar: do you know how much a solar panel costs? Solar plants work out in the desert for small towns, but you really need a LOT of panels or reflectors to power anything significant. And there doesn't seem to be a point of time when people will be able to afford solar cars, because that would be a lot of solar panels as well. Also, those things are small. Hydrogen: The only reasonable way to get hydrogen, as it is not found by itself in nature, is to break it away from water molecules. Coincidently, it takes more energy to seperate it from these molecules than the amount of energy the fuel itself would put out. Thus, you've actually lost energy, and that isn't a logical thing to do. Then again, you are right that these choices will end up being better than fossil fuels. Ethanol and electricity are also being looked at, and are being used in conjunction with petrol in cars already. Problem with ethanol is that even 10% concentrations have been known to corrode engines, and the problem with electric is that electricity needs a source, and it might be made from plants that use fossil fuels. Thus, all pollution and such will just move from a dispersed source to a point source. However, ethanol and other bio products have some promise because they would close the carbon loop, thus having the CO2 they emit go back into plants instead of getting caught up in the atmosphere and contributing to the greenhouse effect. My biggest problem, aside from the fact that this action WILL result in the obliteration of an ecosystem and its inhabitants, is that we are being too hasty, as hahahalalala said. We just voted to go up and take some more oil (apparently as pre-emptive measures for gas prices) BEFORE using any incentives for conserving fuel, such as tax breaks for hybrid car owners or people who only use so much gas in a year, or raising gas taxes... we also don't have a whole lot of groups that go and educate people/companies about flouresence (sp?), heat recycling, and other energy saving methods which would cut down oil consumption. Also, we aren't really in an energy crisis anyway. Most of Europe is much worse off than we are. Remember, we basically own Iraq, and they have the second largest oil reserves in the world. EDIT: my god, we need some neocons here so that there's actually an argument and not just a bunch of agreement. (edited by Kefka on 03-19-05 01:11 AM) |
|||
|
Grey the Stampede Don't mess with powers you don't understand. And yes. That means donuts. Level: 82 Posts: 1987/3770 EXP: 5192909 For next: 16318 Since: 06-17-04 From: Kingston, RI, USA, Earth Since last post: 2 hours Last activity: 1 hour |
| ||
| Alright, Kefka, you're assuming I'm going into this debate not knowing the problems of the sources I advocate. Firstoff, there are two kinds of solar panels (as I'm sure you know). As much as I like the idea of photovoltaic cells, the aluminum panels that are used to heat water to turn turbines with steam are also good, you just need a crapload of a lot of them. Not only that, but european plastics companies are experimenting with solar panels made not out of silicon, like the expensive ones, but with plastics that are 20 times cheaper and only half as effective, meaning you could theoretically produce ten times as much energy for the same amount of money. And the room required for solar panels can be circumvented by the fact that (in America anyway) there's a heck of a lot of land that's completely and totally unsettled in many parts of the world. The entire world's population could theoretically be crammed, shoulder to shoulder, in the Hawaiian Islands if we didn't have all of these buildings in the way. If someone had the guts to continue with nuclear research, even on a basic level, there's no way we wouldn't find a way to minimize or get rid of nuclear waste. And as for hydrogen, it doesn't take more energy. It used to take more energy, now it takes about as much energy, and soon if research on that subject increases, it'll be that much easier to get hydrogen from water molecules and require less energy than coal or oil power. |
|||
|
Kefka Indefinitely Unbanned Level: 81 Posts: 2595/3392 EXP: 4826208 For next: 166641 Since: 03-15-04 From: Pomona, CALIFORNIA BABY! Since last post: 4 hours Last activity: 4 hours |
| ||
Dude, I know all that. I was just trying to start an argument since everyone's been friggin agreeing  EDIT: the good things outweigh the problems anyway as far as those potential power sources (edited by Kefka on 03-19-05 03:49 PM) |
|||
Dracoon Zelda The temp ban/forum ban bypasser! Level: 84  Posts: 2715/3727 EXP: 5514391 For next: 147561 Since: 03-25-04 From: At home Since last post: 5 hours Last activity: 5 hours |
| ||
| Bleh, lets see what I can pull up here... With constant technological developement and more than enough idealist, this won't cause a problem. This will be stopping a long term problem for a short time, so something else can stop the problem soon after. Yes polar bears will suffer, if we completely destroy their habitat, but just cause we can, doesn't me we will. We will probably make reservations and everything, and if someone could give me a link to the bill it would help a hell of a lot more than me trying to pull stuff out of my ass. |
|||
|
Grey the Stampede Don't mess with powers you don't understand. And yes. That means donuts. Level: 82 Posts: 1991/3770 EXP: 5192909 For next: 16318 Since: 06-17-04 From: Kingston, RI, USA, Earth Since last post: 2 hours Last activity: 1 hour |
| ||
Originally posted by Dracoon I officially declare Dracoon the winner of this debate. |
|||
HGanon Red Paragoomba Level: 12 Posts: 13/59 EXP: 7041 For next: 880 Since: 03-06-05 Since last post: 104 days Last activity: 9 hours |
| ||
| ANWAR? What's that? Is this about drilling in Alaska? If so, then what's so bad about that? | |||
|
windwaker Ball and Chain Trooper WHY ALL THE MAYONNAISE HATE Level: 61 Posts: 1320/1797 EXP: 1860597 For next: 15999 Since: 03-15-04 Since last post: 4 days Last activity: 6 days |
| ||
| Are you serious? XD If you don't know what's wrong with it, then there's something wrong with you. There isn't enough oil on Earth forever, or even the next century. Digging for it, IN WILDLIFE RESERVATIONS, will just prolong our dependancy on it, until the rich idiots running our government die, leaving their children to replace oil with electricity. |
|||
|
HGanon Red Paragoomba Level: 12 Posts: 14/59 EXP: 7041 For next: 880 Since: 03-06-05 Since last post: 104 days Last activity: 9 hours |
| ||
Originally posted by windwaker Scuze me.  I'm not gonna get into the whole 'amount of oil left' arguement, but since we'd be drilling in our own country, we'd be saving billions in not buying it from others. Does't anyone care about that? |
|||
|
windwaker Ball and Chain Trooper WHY ALL THE MAYONNAISE HATE Level: 61 Posts: 1321/1797 EXP: 1860597 For next: 15999 Since: 03-15-04 Since last post: 4 days Last activity: 6 days |
| ||
| That is a fact. But the oil is going to run out anyway. Our government's taking the easy way out by drilling for oil, rather than preparing for when all of the oil's gone. And again, it's in a wildlife reserve, which deters from the beauty of Alaska. |
|||
|
Kefka Indefinitely Unbanned Level: 81 Posts: 2605/3392 EXP: 4826208 For next: 166641 Since: 03-15-04 From: Pomona, CALIFORNIA BABY! Since last post: 4 hours Last activity: 4 hours |
| ||
| This wouldn't be happening so easily if the proposal had been to drill in Yosemite. 51 senators apparently don't give a shit about Alaska. Probably the 2 of the Republican senators that voted against it were from Alaska ... so that's about it... damn... |
|||
|
HGanon Red Paragoomba Level: 12 Posts: 15/59 EXP: 7041 For next: 880 Since: 03-06-05 Since last post: 104 days Last activity: 9 hours |
| ||
| Well of course the oil's going to run out. It takes something like this to get you complaining? But seriously, oil is reproducable. Oil is created from fossils of plants. And in WW2 the Germans successfuly created oil-then the formula got destroyed. Plus, look at the oil fields in Iraq. Saddam set fire to them twice in the past 10 years, and they're still full of oil. Oil doesn't run out that quickly. Just don't worry, there's more than enough oil out there, and by the time it runs out-if it does- there'll be a way around it. |
|||
Tamarin Calanis We exist. Earth exists. The universe exists. Do we really need to know why? Level: 59 Posts: 386/1802 EXP: 1672751 For next: 377 Since: 07-12-04 From: The gas station on the corner... Since last post: 5 hours Last activity: 5 hours |
| ||
| "there'll be a way around it" Not if people just keep ignoring the fact that oil will run out. Then no one will think about a "way around it" until we need it, and by then it'll be too late. And with that, I'm out. |
|||
|
HGanon Red Paragoomba Level: 12 Posts: 16/59 EXP: 7041 For next: 880 Since: 03-06-05 Since last post: 104 days Last activity: 9 hours |
| ||
| I just said "By the time it runs out" there will be a solution . It's not gonna run out for over a century at least. | |||
|
Tamarin Calanis We exist. Earth exists. The universe exists. Do we really need to know why? Level: 59 Posts: 388/1802 EXP: 1672751 For next: 377 Since: 07-12-04 From: The gas station on the corner... Since last post: 5 hours Last activity: 5 hours |
| ||
| It sounds like you think a solution's just gonna magically appear before we need it. And that is laughable. Of course, if that's not what you think, then be a little more clear on what you do think. You're not saying very much. Edit: When I said "With that, I'm out."... yeah, I kinda lied. (edited by Tamarin Calanis on 03-21-05 06:05 PM) |
|||
alte Hexe Star Mario I dreamed I saw Joe Hill last night Alive as you and me "But Joe you're ten years dead!" "I never died" said he "I never died!" said he Level: 99  Posts: 3308/5458 EXP: 9854489 For next: 145511 Since: 03-15-04 From: ... Since last post: 2 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
| ||
Originally posted by HGanon Based on current consumption rates, I heard a "conservative" estimate being placed at a 10-15 years life. More realistically, a 50 year life limit. If dependency doesn't peak and fall by the time ANWAR is done, then that "solution" won't be around. Long term planning > short-sighted harmful choices. |
| Pages: 1 2 | Add to favorites | "RSS" Feed | Next newer thread | Next older thread |
| Acmlm's Board - I2 Archive - World Affairs / Debate - ANWAR |
| | |
