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| Acmlm's Board - I2 Archive - Lost Section - Why internet arguments are worthless. |
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Zem You can be civil without being flowery, dipshits. Level: 49 Posts: 932/1107 EXP: 829398 For next: 54485 Since: 06-13-04 Since last post: 131 days Last activity: 131 days |
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| If you're not going to read the log, don't reply to the thread. I have some stuff after the log, but the log is important. Also, don't reply to say how funny it is that I repeated the word "log" so many times. In fact, how about this. Don't reply if you're not going to add to the discussion, assuming there is in fact a resultant discussion. THIS IS A SERIOUS THREAD. KEEP THAT IN MIND, PLEASE. <&knuck> ok let me add a few awesome people: <+Zem> I do try to remain unaffected by what other people think aboot each other <&knuck> Phil <&knuck> bouche <&knuck> Reid <&knuck> Krel <&knuck> Acmlm <&knuck> Yiffy Kitten <&knuck> monopolyman <&knuck> those are people that i actually trust <+Zem> which is why I (like to thing I can) get along fairly well with, for example, legion and windwaker <&knuck> and as i said before, legion <+windwaker> guys <+windwaker> question <+Zem> I just stay out of stoopid bitchfights <+JDavis> Zem likes to thing <+Zem> but I watch them because they're SUPER FLY <+windwaker> why make lists about "omgz i dont liek u"? <&knuck> oh <+Zem> I like to what? <&Phil> ww <+Zem> =[] <&Phil> the only person <&Phil> who gives a shit <&Phil> is you <+JDavis> Zem likes to thing <+windwaker> [03/14/05 06:15:20 pm] <Zem> which is why I (like to thing I can) get along fairly well with, for example, legion and windwaker <+Zem> []= <+windwaker> that's what JD was referring to. :\ <+windwaker> Phil <+Zem> lolz <&knuck> PHIL YOU HAVE THE PERMISSION TO KICK FUCKTARDS <+windwaker> why did you say that then? ;\ ;/ <&knuck> I DONT GIVE A FUCK ANYMORE <+Zem> thanks for picking out a typo =D <+windwaker> well <+Zem> hey anyway <+windwaker> [03/14/05 06:15:47 pm] <JDavis> Zem likes to thing <+Zem> before this goes too far <+windwaker>  <+Zem> DRAMA IS A RETARDED <+Zem> ON THE INTERNET <+Zem> plz <&Phil> i'm not making drama out of this <&Phil> anymore than anyone else is <+windwaker> irony <+Zem> I'm not referring to anyone specifically <+Zem> but <+Zem> it happens <+JDavis> You know what would have been awesome? <&knuck> windwaker your problem is <&knuck> that just like lots of people <&knuck> (including me sometimes) <&knuck> you think you're funny <&knuck> but you arent <+JDavis> If Phil kicked knuck right after he said that permission line <&knuck> oh he cant i'm SOP too <&knuck> ;D <+Zem> HEY HEY seriously <+JDavis> That's what I don't like about this system <+Zem> eh <+Zem> I forget * &Phil is now PELVIC THRUSTING to: Maximum The Hormone - Rolling1000Toon (Air Master ED) [01:42m/128Kbps/44KHz] <+JDavis> I prefer channels where ops can kick anybody <&knuck> nah its not fun <&knuck> else Kitten Yiffer would be able to kick me <+windwaker> knuck is totally conservative. <+windwaker> that has to be it., <+JDavis> Who made knuck op anyway? <+Zem> okay, for one thing <+Zem> a good example <+Zem> knuck and windwaker <+Zem> whenever they start talking <+Zem> neither of them will EVER acknowledge what the other is saying <+Zem> that I've seen <+JDavis> windwaker usually has knuck ignored <+windwaker> I forgot to reignore him <+Zem> hey <+Zem> that's what I'm talking about <+windwaker> at the religious conversiation <+Zem> it doesn't matter what the argument is <+Zem> it's usually something inconsequential <+windwaker> half of the time we argue I have him on ignore. :\ <+Zem> even when people are rational most of the time, a personal problem with someone else means AUTOMATIC DISAGREEMENT PERIOD. <+Zem> that is one MAJOR PROBLEM resulting from minor internet drama. <+windwaker> it's like conservatives. <&Phil> fdjlsfjslkfjdslksjfsf <+Zem> windwaker, stfu <&Phil> this makes me lol <+windwaker> I'm joking. <+Zem> it's NOT like conservatives <+Zem> >=( <&Phil> [9:14:08p] [+windwaker] half of the time we argue I have him on ignore. :\ <&Phil> why argue with him then <+windwaker> because he's wrong by default <+windwaker> haven't you been listening. >8( <+Zem> blah <+Zem> I figured we were having an actual discussion just now * Disconnected Now. I like to try to get along with everyone. I consider Legion, Knuck, Windwaker, and JDavis friends of mine (whether that feeling is reciprocated, I have no idea), and I'd like to say the same for Phil but I can't read him at all. Now, other people don't actively try to be as widely friendly, and that's fine. Many of these people dislike each other personally, and I understand that. This does not cause me awkward sitcom-style HI-LARIOUS situations when arguments break out, which they frequently do. I try to stay out of the arguments, mostly. Why? Because as soon as two people who don't like each other are involved, rationality goes out the window. I happen to know that all of the people I mentioned ARE rational, and COULD handle a discussion with someone they don't like due to outside reasons. But for some reason, it's just not happening. And this isn't only a problem with these people; this is just for the sake of example. Blah, blah... as usual, I can't articulate my feelings very well. Here's what I want to say. Please, give your opponent a chance. I'm not asking you to like everyone, but for the sake of a good discussion, try to ACKNOWLEDGE what the person who is disagreeing with you is SAYING. Eh, I had more, but it's gone. I'm sure I'm just being whiny and over-optimistic. Well, take this topic and do with it what you will. |
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alte Hexe Star Mario I dreamed I saw Joe Hill last night Alive as you and me "But Joe you're ten years dead!" "I never died" said he "I never died!" said he Level: 99  Posts: 3259/5458 EXP: 9854489 For next: 145511 Since: 03-15-04 From: ... Since last post: 2 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
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| ...To be honest, I have no probs with anyone on the board. As for Phil. You have to earn his trust, his love, his virginity. |
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windwaker Ball and Chain Trooper WHY ALL THE MAYONNAISE HATE Level: 61  Posts: 1300/1797 EXP: 1860597 For next: 15999 Since: 03-15-04 Since last post: 4 days Last activity: 6 days |
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Honestly, I assumed that no one was really being serious. These childish "u hate me  i hate u" games have no meaning; no one really takes them seriously (I think, I know I don't).I wub knuck and he knows it. Honestly, that entire log is just us arguing over nothing. No one really keeps grudges over it (I hope  ). |
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MathOnNapkins Math n' Hacks Level: 67  Posts: 1578/2189 EXP: 2495887 For next: 96985 Since: 03-18-04 From: Base Tourian Since last post: 1 hour Last activity: 32 min. |
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| Internet discussions that turn into flamewars are the worst sort. Then there is the discussion with someone you disagree with a lot, but are still friends. And you're right, for the discussion to go anywhere, you have to acknowledge or at least consider your opponent's points. | |||
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Valcion YOU WA SHOCK Level: 50  Posts: 790/1139 EXP: 939607 For next: 7710 Since: 03-15-04 From: internets. Since last post: 3 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
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| don't worry Zem. I <3 | |||
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Zem You can be civil without being flowery, dipshits. Level: 49 Posts: 934/1107 EXP: 829398 For next: 54485 Since: 06-13-04 Since last post: 131 days Last activity: 131 days |
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| Ziff/Phil: Let's see if we can touch each other like the people in that magazine! MathOnNapkins: yeah. windwaker: Bad example maybe, but it's still a problem in many situations. I'll come up with examples in a while. Hopefully I didn't just ruin this thread with that link, but it needed to be said. |
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MathOnNapkins Math n' Hacks Level: 67 Posts: 1581/2189 EXP: 2495887 For next: 96985 Since: 03-18-04 From: Base Tourian Since last post: 1 hour Last activity: 32 min. |
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Don't "yeah" me you hooligan.  And O_o at the comic. Reminds me of the "youth protection" training videos I had to watch for Boy Scout camp staff. They had one skit where three adolescent boys get together as friends and discussed how they were molested. Provides excellent lines such as "Got room for one more [in that shower]? |
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Ran-chan Moldorm eek, when are they going to stop growing... Level: 143  Posts: 8275/12781 EXP: 35293588 For next: 538220 Since: 03-15-04 From: Nerima District, Tokyo - Japan Since last post: 12 hours Last activity: 12 hours |
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| Well, me and Legion were friends but what the hell made him go berserk and get banned? I never reallygot to know that. I |
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Kitten Yiffer Purple wand Furry moderator Vivent l'exp����¯�¿�½������©rience de signalisation d'amusement, ou bien ! Level: 135 Posts: 8520/11162 EXP: 28824106 For next: 510899 Since: 03-15-04 From: Sweden Since last post: 3 hours Last activity: 4 min. |
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| Well #acmlm usually goes like this nowdays. Yiffy Kitten unbans Knuck Jesper enters #Acmlm and bans Knuck Knuck IM's me and call me a fucktard becuse of me telling Jesper even when I have been away the whole day and it hadn't been even possible to tell Jesper in the first place... And like with relgion views, people won't give up. Althought I stay outside thoose discussions nowdays since I like discussions sure.. but pointless ones where we just get angry at each other? :/ Well, it's funny seeing the arguments Knuck and Legion have against Linux. |
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Prier Archangel Administrative Priestess. NUCLEAR SUB WEEEOOOO Level: 119  Posts: 5663/8392 EXP: 18790939 For next: 138352 Since: 03-15-04 From: Nerima Dist. - Tokyo, Japan Since last post: 1 day Last activity: 1 day |
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| Uhm...welcome to the real world? Don't tell me you're this naive. It doesn't exist just on messageboards. Get out sometime. You'll notice that the Internet isn't the only place where such arguments are borne. If you think it's any less rational on the net than it is in real life...they're both dumb. I don't think there's really a weights and measures thing about it. But, people will argue. Especially those that have to deal with each other constantly. You know why that 'go somewhere else if you don't like it' thing has a low success rate of someone actually listening to it? I was talking to someone the other day, and this is one of a few people who've thought this, that was constantly putting trouble back without leaving here because if he left then he automatically assumed that they won. Basically, it's a matter of shameless pride. People are going to argue back when their intellect, no matter what size, is insulted. That's going to be on the comp, in the streets, on the phone, in the tub, whatever. Unless you're one of these spineless people that just let things roll off your back and eventually get to a point where you've bottled up your anger for too long and eventually snap and do something even worse than a silly argument then it will always happen. So that said...no one ever really takes these things seriously anyways. Most times I figure if people are just in an uproar about something anyways, they're pretty much in a stressed mood, everyone's bitching anyways, so they just decide to let off steam and build on to a flame war. Whoopie. People have to let anger out in some fashion. Might as well do it through a medium where it's 'comical'. I'm a usually addition to this play that goes on. Speaking of that, it's not like we're all role-playing already. Name one staffer that is any better than another person because they're on staff and the same can be said for any normal user over another person or even banned members over another depending on how they were banned or what they were banned for just for the sheer fact that they might not know how to present themselves on net. I doubt you'll come up with any 'this person is' answers that aren't subjective. So we're roleplaying...we have the drama...so that said who gives a shit anyways? Apparently quite a few people, ironically enough. You know, people used to bitch about SB and SF forums all the time but...this whole board is just that. Like many other forums on net. An SB and SF forum, just in a less glorious scale. Most, if not all, forums are that aren't dedicated to just posting unopinionated information. So people are going to act however they feel and the staffers will play their roles out in the way they were assigned by the script, aka FAQ and whatever else for interpretation, and lo and behold we have a board conflict at points. People hate people, families against families, brother pitted against brother, babies...having babies. And I won't go into the SB email after Virus. That's about all there is to it. More serious conversations for me tend to go on AIM really. The only time I make any serious posts are these long and drawn out ones that are usually for better topics than this. If you really hate them then your best answer is a simple one: ignore it. Even though you seem to want to stay out of things you're still adding on by acknowleding this now and stirring up shit, even minor amounts by rememberance. Globally, I doubt any person is going to change everyone's mind because people have their own thoughts and their own set of rules and quite frankly don't even have to give two shits about the next person's ideals thanks to that...so threads like these are pretty much pointless and the end of the first post has an amount of drama in it as it is so it's pretty much a hypocritical statement as it is an argument or at least fuel for one as it is. Simply put, 'getting along' period is a lot harder than what you're trying to make out, I'm afraid. :\ |
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Colleen Administrator Level: 136 Posts: 7580/11302 EXP: 29369328 For next: 727587 Since: 03-15-04 From: LaSalle, Quebec, Canada Since last post: 3 hours Last activity: 1 hour |
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| I think it's a bit different on the Internet however. On the net, you're in front of a screen with a keyboard and mouse beside you. You can type whatever the hell you want, no matter how outlandish, racist or blasphemous it is, and usually get away with it because of anonymity. Worst case scenario is you get tossed from a board/forum usually, and then the guy/girl will just take his/her thoughts elsewhere. Arguments happen everywhere, but they might have more teeth online since you can say things without the fear of having your lights knocked out. |
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Zem You can be civil without being flowery, dipshits. Level: 49 Posts: 973/1107 EXP: 829398 For next: 54485 Since: 06-13-04 Since last post: 131 days Last activity: 131 days |
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| I'm not sure what my point was when making this thread. Hiryuu, I agree! I guess it just irritates the hell out of me when the UNentertaining, boring, back-and-forth shitslinging spreads all over the place. (e.g. Xkeeper talking shit in every single thread mentioning Firefox.) And yeah, sometimes I am having a discussion in which people are acknowledging each other's arguments, and it gets thrown off track by some losers who can't keep their dicks in their pants. I'm sure I'm guilty of this as well, but it annoys me, leading to things like the creation of this thread. =p Yeah, my opening post here is not drama-free. I should have mentioned that I was pissed off when I created it, because I was, and I'm sure you can tell. That's also why I regret making it now, since it's not really saying anything, and I always regret the things I do online under the influence of emotion. Anyway, yeah. I'm just going to resume my normal board behavior of posting irreverent snide comments. However, I admit to feeling rather bitter that it is so difficult to have a reasonable discussion in a public forum online. |
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Prier Archangel Administrative Priestess. NUCLEAR SUB WEEEOOOO Level: 119 Posts: 5665/8392 EXP: 18790939 For next: 138352 Since: 03-15-04 From: Nerima Dist. - Tokyo, Japan Since last post: 1 day Last activity: 1 day |
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| Well, going back to what Colleen said, the majority of the people on here that have mouths on them are probably going to be weak and feeble when it comes to conversations in real life at least in terms of those conversations, I don't really know about physical strength and whatever, so I couldn't guess whether or not a person could actually hold their own by the words they talk or if they're just talking shit to look all high and mighty. Personally, I usually think the latter is more true...especially in the case of a nerd ROM Hack board. And trust me, I can't say I'm not irritated with it either. I'm one of the few people that actually has to do something about it and you know sometimes the staff on here just does not want to go through with steps to ban or punish someone because it overall feels wrong. You wouldn't believe how many times I've seen something that could just take a second to end get strewn out for several months over drama and the feelings of others on staff and not on staff over just a single person. Trust me, when it comes to that, I get tired of it too. May make me look like an ass at points, but it's better to just end the shit with someone getting their ass, at most, permabanned than see some annoying shit play out for months and months and months. Lot better on people involved really, even if a few people get the perma-shaft. But, then again, you can't expect people to conform. Especially on a forum even this size. There are almost a couple thousand users now. I doubt very seriously you're going to make a small town-sized board conform...so that's where we come in, the mods that is. Sometimes, it's not a great job, but you know we get to be the ones that take care of the fun stuff so the normal members don't have to put up with this shit...or at least TOO MUCH of it. :\ But, that doesn't necessarily mean that we're going to go all dictator either when something's going down and someone sneezed incorrectly and started a little scuffle over it. They'll get warned if they keep it up and then if they continue then their ass is in the slammer for a noted amount of time. That said, it's really hard to designate one person over the other in terms of banning when we're already doing that already by having a staff even though it is an utmost necessity. I think that's why some of the minor stuff like this gets dragged out because no one wants to do anything about it because, on the majority, it's small and most of the stuff, in terms of a few people mentioned, is over with now and they can go to other place like IRC and bitch all they want and such...but hey...if something goes all wrong, you can be assured the staff'll do something about it, if not right away then eventually. I know that much. |
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Kitten Yiffer Purple wand Furry moderator Vivent l'exp����¯�¿�½������©rience de signalisation d'amusement, ou bien ! Level: 135 Posts: 8912/11162 EXP: 28824106 For next: 510899 Since: 03-15-04 From: Sweden Since last post: 3 hours Last activity: 4 min. |
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Originally posted by ColleenActually you can techincally shut the offender of from his ISP. If you contact the offender's ISP's abuse department... which I actually we should do and even point out in the FAQ. People would be alot more paranoid to know how anaymous they really aren't. You can find out which country they are in and what ISP they use and the ISP can track the user down if you give them the IP... althought they just don't give info like that but there is always the abuse department. :/ I don't know how much effect the "piss off us even more and we contact the ISP" warning have thought. And I know for sure that it never happened... Trust me, the drama on this board is nothing. Seen worser, and that's by just lurking on alot of other boards. And this is one of the few open-minded forums I have seen. I can ask admins "Why was that user banned?" without getting the imfamous "Not your business reply". And I can point out problems about something on the board, as long I don't do personal attacks. ...that's sadly what people tries to do in debates, they try to piss off the other side sometime and even start with dumb personal attacks. Bigoted people are funny, like this certain person who visits this board and said that nerds aren't doing anything good... when he technically is one himself. I would agree with Hiryuu that the number of nerds and "special personality traits people" are quite high on this board. And I actually like it that way... |
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Zem You can be civil without being flowery, dipshits. Level: 49 Posts: 976/1107 EXP: 829398 For next: 54485 Since: 06-13-04 Since last post: 131 days Last activity: 131 days |
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| nerds lol Hiryuu, once again, I agree. You make many good points. I'd like to be able to respond to you paragraph-by-paragraph, but whenever I do that I lose track of what I'm saying. You made me think of something: I think Shroomy was right when he complained about how inconsistent this board was when it came to punishing flames; however, I don't think it would be effective any other way. Sure, a no-tolerance no-rule-breaking policy wouldn't be difficult to enforce if you got right down to it, but people would find it hampering and find the board less enjoyable. Extended example: Say you banned people for repeatedly responding to trolls after warnings not to. How many times has that happened? I haven't seen any warnings in those threads lately, but around when I first joined the board it was common for trolls/advertisers/born-to-be-banned users to post a stupid thread, garnering several insulting responses, and finally having a mod or admin close it with a "Don't reply to these threads" warning. It stopped some people, but most of them kept on doing it. Maybe I missed it, but I've never seen someone banned with a "responding to trolls" tag in their title. Edit: To clarify, it really wasn't a problem that people responded to trolls, and it would have been dumb to ban for it. So I'm glad it didn't happen. My point: whether or not this is supposed to be the case, the staff reacts like humans rather than business administrators. The few problems this might cause due to inconsistency are made up for by the resulting human feeling of the board. Aside: That's overall, of course. I still find the board mostly boring these days. =D P.S.: Look at this! We're having a civil debate over a somewhat controversial topic between multiple people on the internet! Sure, it's a bit inaccessible, but I don't think anyone's going to interrupt it at this point. More likely it will simply die within a few posts, but I'm hoping against that. (edited by Zem on 03-27-05 02:41 PM) |
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Kario In Possession of a Stolen Shovel Level: 65 Posts: 1575/2082 EXP: 2321379 For next: 14249 Since: 03-15-04 From: Texas... Yeehaw! Since last post: 2 days Last activity: 17 hours |
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| I think the biggest problem is that when someone isnt liked, they get all hurt about it. It is cool to have friends online, but if someone hates you or etc. just remember, its the internet. Half the people arent who they say they are, and the other half is hard to find. If you get a genuine friend from the internet, be glad about it. I dont really know what 99% of the people here think about me, and in the end it isnt that important to me either. Sure, I am human, and its natural to want people to think good of me, but if they dont, its not that big of a deal. | |||
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MathOnNapkins Math n' Hacks Level: 67 Posts: 1658/2189 EXP: 2495887 For next: 96985 Since: 03-18-04 From: Base Tourian Since last post: 1 hour Last activity: 32 min. |
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| Internet arguments are worthless b/c you can never be sure that the asshole on the other end isn't just some troll trying to fuck with you. I've seen some pretty elaborate trolling, too... sometimes the line just flat out blurs. |
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