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11-02-05 12:59 PM
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Alastor the Stylish
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Posted on 02-26-05 11:05 PM Link | Quote
And besides, that phrase came from the Something Awful forums, and we all know how accurate THEY are.


(edited by Kyouji Craw on 02-26-05 02:29 PM)
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Posted on 02-26-05 11:26 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Fyxe


Here's a list of games where Link doesn't know Zelda (or, more accurately, where Zelda doesn't know Link).
(...) and the Oracle games.




Gotta correct you there. If you play a game using a password, you do see Zelda; the circumstances are different based on which one you're playing, but both involve saving her. And if I recall the dialogue correctly, she knew Link before (though it has been a while).
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Posted on 02-26-05 11:32 PM Link | Quote
Actually, she didn't talk like she knew Link when you first meet her. She actually introduces herself. Why would she need to introduce herself if Link knew her?

ALttP isn't first, but OoT came before ALttP, and WW came after OoT. All of the games come after OoT.
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Posted on 02-26-05 11:45 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Fyxe
Actually, she didn't talk like she knew Link when you first meet her. She actually introduces herself. Why would she need to introduce herself if Link knew her?

Didn't remember that.

Ah well, my memory ain't the greatest. Gotta play the game again...
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Posted on 02-26-05 11:46 PM Link | Quote
That was playing Seasons first and Ages second, the dialogue may be slightly different when played the other way around, I'm not sure.
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Posted on 02-26-05 11:51 PM Link | Quote
The dialogue IS different when you play ages first, but the general gist of the conversation is the same.
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Posted on 02-26-05 11:56 PM Link | Quote
Quotation from the text dump of Ages on Zelda Legends...

'Thank you for
rescuing me.
My name is
Zelda. You are
Link, right?
I knew it at
first glance.
Take this as
thanks for
rescuing me.'

And Seasons...

'Thank you for
saving me from
danger. My name
is Zelda.
You must be
Link.
I knew it at
first glance.'
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Posted on 02-27-05 12:13 AM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Fyxe
The Legend of Zelda, A Link to the Past, Ocarina of Time, Wind Waker, and the Oracle games.
Add Zelda II: The Adventure of Link to that list, as Zelda apparently was asleep for very very long time. Probably even before Link was born in that game, considering link was 16th according to some of the sources I checked. I do hope they took it from the insturction booklet or something, as the game itself only tells the story briefly...

And which games does Zelda know about Link? It's mostly games which isn't around Zelda or Hyrule. Such as Majoras mask, where Zelda only makes a brief apparance during a cut-scene. Any other games than Majoras mask where Zelda knows about Link from the start?


(edited by Kitten Yiffer on 02-26-05 03:15 PM)
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Posted on 02-27-05 12:19 AM Link | Quote
The Adventure of Link follows on from The Legend of Zelda so Link knows the Zelda from the original game. The sleeping Zelda is a different Zelda.

Link also knows Zelda in Link's Awakening (Marin is the dream version of Zelda and looks like Zelda from ALttP).

Link knows Zelda in the Four Swords games and Minish Cap, but that doesn't necessarily mean he's a Link from a previous game.
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Posted on 02-27-05 12:20 AM Link | Quote
... What? No, Zelda II is obviously right after LoZ. Where are you getting that from?

Anyway, more games where Zelda knows Link at the start...

The Minish Cap and Four Swords are all I can think of.

Edit: Fyxe, Zelda isn't in Link's Awakening. There's no explicit proof Zelda knows Link, only that Link knows Zelda. There's a hefty bit of circumstantial evidence, but all you can really do is assume.


(edited by Kyouji Craw on 02-26-05 03:21 PM)
(edited by Kyouji Craw on 02-26-05 03:21 PM)
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Posted on 02-27-05 12:23 AM Link | Quote
As I said to myself when I first read this on IGN, "THIS HAD BEST BE A #@%&ING TRANSLATION ERROR!"

I had been hoping that, as evidence in the trailer shows, Zelda '05 might tell the story of The Imprisoning War. For those not obsessed enough to know, The Imprisoning War is the war between Ganondorf and Hyrule mentioned in LttP's story. Before I go further, let me explain the Zelda timelines (plural) that I follow.

Timeline 1: Ocarina of Time (The whole game) --------> Wind Waker.

Timeline 2: Ocarina of Time (Early part of the game) & Majora's Mask (& Imprisoning War) -> Minish Cap -> Four Swords & Four Swords Adventures -> Link to the Past, the Oracle games, & Link's Awakening -> (Time of Chaos) -> Legend of Zelda & Zelda 2.

Now, I've got some 'splainin' to do. Some spoiler-tastic 'splainin'

Spoiler:
When Zelda sends Link back in time at the end of OoT, it causes a split in the timeline. This should have been immediately noticeable.. People all over Hyrule are celebrating Ganondorf's defeat, but if Link had changed the past, it would have been instantaneous and there would be no defeat to celebrate.

Anyway, one timeline (Timeline 1) continues along after Ganondorf's defeat. One hundred years later, he returns and there's no Link to fight him. Blah blah blah, the world gets flooded, etc. All that stuff from Wind Waker.

The other timeline (Timeline 2) is what we see at the very end of OoT, with Link returning to the past. There is an oddity here, as Link arrives on the Pedestal of Time, which was not accessible until after Zelda had fled, yet Zelda is still in the garden. Anyway, since Zelda was in the garden looking in that window, we can assume he arrived at the time when they first met. Knowing everything that happened the first time, Link would not recollect the spiritual stones. I'm sure he'd defeat King Dodongo and save Princess Ruto again, but he wouldn't collect the stones, and he wouldn't let Ganondorf into the Sacred Realm.

Sometime shortly after his return (a year at most) he accidentally goes on his adventure in Termina. Nothing major happens here, but we know it's right after OoT.

Now, you're probably wondering why I placed Minish Cap and the Four Sword games where I did. That all boils down to two things. First, Ocarina of Time has been official stated as occurring first, so none of the MC/FS games can be before it. Second, in FSA we see the Dark World and Pig Ganon. Now, the Dark World was created during the time of The Imprisoning War, when Ganondorf obtained the Triforce, causing the Sacred Realm to mutate based on the dark wishes of his heart. This is also what turned Ganondorf into Ganon. But when Link gets the Triforce at the end of LttP, the Sacred Realm is (presumably) returned to normal, and all that were trapped there are returned to the normal world (as seen in the credits). So in order for these things to be present in FSA, it'd have to be set between The Imprisoning War (which would be after MM, since Ganondorf isn't immortal until he gets the Triforce (or at least the Triforce of Power, as seen in the other Timeline)) and LttP. Anyway, moving on..

Now, as for why I place the Oracle games between LttP and LA, Link was returning to Hyrule from a far-away land by ship in LA. When you beat both Oracle games (using one's password when starting the other) the ending clearly shows Link leaving Holodrum/Labrynna by ship. Also, Aghanim appears in the Oracle games.

The Time of Chaos between LA and LoZ need some explaining... Not much information on it from the games. I'm pretty certain "Time of Chaos" is a fan-term, for that matter. In any case, it refers to events that we know happened. It is during this time that a King of Hyrule hid the Triforce of Courage in the Valley of Death. His son, the Prince, was power hungry, and being influenced by a dark sorcerer (possibly Aghanim). So when he (the King) died, he told only his young daughter, Princess Zelda, where the Triforce of Courage was. The Prince tried to get his sister to tell him, but she refused. So the sorcerer put a spell on Princess Zelda, causing her to fall into a deep sleep from which she might never awaken. Some time after all this, something happened led to Hyrule breaking up into several smaller countries, only one of which would retain the name Hyrule.

Then, of course, there's the Legend of Zelda and Zelda 2.


Anyway, to be direct, I hope this is a fault in translation, and that Aonuma was referring to the Zelda for the DS, or he meant that it was the next 3D Zelda after Wind Waker instead of anything having to do with the story.
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Posted on 02-27-05 12:34 AM Link | Quote
I stand by my statement that the minish cap is after the Oracle games. The Din figurine says she's a dancer from Holodrum, thus Minish Cap couldn't possibly be earlier, much less several games earlier as you say :x Anyway, Four Swords have the six maidens, so they have to be around the same time as LttP... But, Zelda knows who Link is in it, so it thus has to be after. Plus, while the area is called the dark world, it's not particularly dark, as it would be beforehand; just look at it, it looks rather normal. Thus there's no reason it can't be after LttP.
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Posted on 02-27-05 12:34 AM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Kyouji Craw
... What? No, Zelda II is obviously right after LoZ. Where are you getting that from?

Anyway, more games where Zelda knows Link at the start...

The Minish Cap and Four Swords are all I can think of.

Edit: Fyxe, Zelda isn't in Link's Awakening. There's no explicit proof Zelda knows Link, only that Link knows Zelda. There's a hefty bit of circumstantial evidence, but all you can really do is assume.


Er, did you read my post right? I was saying The Adventure of Link was after The Legend of Zelda. That's what I said.

I already said The Minish Cap and Four Swords.

I know Zelda isn't in Link's Awakening but it is said more than once that she bears a resemblance to Zelda, that was my point. Also, Link from LA destroyed Ganon. And, as quoted in the manual...

'you heard a comforting voice that reminded you of home. It was the voice of Princess Zelda!'

Clearly the Link from LA knows Zelda, it'd be a bit of a stretch to suggest otherwise. Most evidence, such as the utter destruction of Ganon, the idea that the game occurs right after that destruction of him, the appearance of Agahnim as one of the Nightmares and the fact that Zelda looks like the Zelda from ALttP (and also the fact that it was the next game after ALttP and treated as a sequel and that the official art was identical and blah blah blah).

JDavis, I haven't read your whole post due to possible spoilers for games I haven't finished yet, but Ocarina of Time IS the Imprisoning War. The truth differs from the legend (although not as much as the backstory of ALttP suggests, due to mistranslations in the manual).

EDIT: And what the heck is this 'Time of Chaos'? Nothing like that is even suggested in the games, try to avoid making things up.


(edited by Fyxe on 02-26-05 03:38 PM)
Alastor the Stylish
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Posted on 02-27-05 12:45 AM Link | Quote
Er, I don't generally read game manuals, so I wouldn't really know about that thing in the Link's Awakening manual
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Posted on 02-27-05 12:47 AM Link | Quote
See, game manuals are pretty dang handy when it comes to arguing about the Zelda timelines. Best to give 'em a look over, especially when it comes to the older games. Thought that was obvious, but oh well. ^-^
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Posted on 02-27-05 12:48 AM Link | Quote
The reason I thought Zelda and Zelda II had diffrent links was, wierd sources. A guide told me it was a 16 years old boy, selected by Impa. While the offical Zelda2 booklet talks about him as the same link from thet first game. So it's probably the same Link, but diffrent Zeldas as Fyxe said.

Seems like there is more Zeldas than Links, but then it seems like every princess in hyrule is named Zelda.

I could see the two alternate timelines theory to be working, but wouldn't that be confusing? Besides, did Link in OOT really change the past? After all he defeated the Ganondorf in the future, and he got "imprisoned" in the future too. Althought then, there is that ending where Zelda meets link... it could mean anything. I always personally belived it was just some "openended teaser" for the "next" Zelda game, like if there would be a new trouble or something. But maybe your right Jdavis...
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Posted on 02-27-05 12:54 AM Link | Quote
I'm beginning to think that Link did not actually change the past. Apparently in TWW, the story of MM is actually mentioned, or something. If this is true, then Majora's Mask would have to happen before TWW, but so would OoT, meaning it would HAVE to go OoT, MM, TWW, with no seperate timeline.

I'm not sure, however.

Here's a large chunk of information for those who still don't think OoT is the Imprisoning War. Read it all.

http://www.zeldalegends.net/index.php?n=article_26

There's alot there, but there's just SO much evidence pointing to the fact that OoT was intended as a prequel that it's kinda silly to suggest otherwise.

EDIT: The quotes alone are enough, and one of them is by MIYAMOTO.


(edited by Fyxe on 02-26-05 03:55 PM)
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Posted on 02-27-05 12:56 AM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Kyouji Craw
I stand by my statement that the minish cap is after the Oracle games. The Din figurine says she's a dancer from Holodrum, thus Minish Cap couldn't possibly be earlier, much less several games earlier as you say :x Anyway, Four Swords have the six maidens, so they have to be around the same time as LttP... But, Zelda knows who Link is in it, so it thus has to be after. Plus, while the area is called the dark world, it's not particularly dark, as it would be beforehand; just look at it, it looks rather normal. Thus there's no reason it can't be after LttP.


1) It's not the same Din. Like a vast majority of the characters in these games, the Oracle girls are presumably reborn every so often.

2) The maidens just means it's also after the Imprisoning War. It's not the same Zelda/Link as those in LttP. And after LttP, Link brings the Triforce back to Hyrule Catle, where it kept for pretty much the rest of the series (except for the Triforce of Courage which is later hidden away). If FSA was after LttP, Vaati would have got the Triforce (he was looking for it in MC, after all), but there's no signs of it being anywhere to be found. For that matter, Ganon gets his Trident in FSA, and the Gorons and Gerudo are still around (who have, near as we can tell, left Hyrule altogether in LttP). And stop refering to Four Swords Adventures as Four Swords. They're two seperate games, FSA being set right after FS.

Originally posted by Fyxe
JDavis, I haven't read your whole post due to possible spoilers for games I haven't finished yet, but Ocarina of Time IS the Imprisoning War. The truth differs from the legend (although not as much as the backstory of ALttP suggests, due to mistranslations in the manual).

EDIT: And what the heck is this 'Time of Chaos'? Nothing like that is even suggested in the games, try to avoid making things up.


3) There are a great deal of similarities, but OoT's ending cannot be the Imprisoning War. Besides it not being a war, the maidens of LttP are the decendants of the sages that sealed Ganon away in The Imprisoning War. Unless you want to tell me a Goron, Zora, and Kokiri all managed to have human decendants, particularly after they'd sealed themselves off in the sacred realm, I'd like to hear you explain that.

4) And if you READ the explination, you'd know that the Time of Chaos is simply the term I use for the events detailed in Zelda 2's backstory, about the sleeping Zelda and Hyrule breaking up.

Edit: And Link had to change the past. If he didn't, he'd be too busy being asleep for 7 years to go to Termina and save it, so


(edited by JDavis on 02-26-05 03:58 PM)
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Posted on 02-27-05 01:07 AM Link | Quote
JDavis, you're missing alot of things here. Lets take them bit by bit...

3) There are a great deal of similarities, but OoT's ending cannot be the Imprisoning War. Besides it not being a war, the maidens of LttP are the decendants of the sages that sealed Ganon away in The Imprisoning War. Unless you want to tell me a Goron, Zora, and Kokiri all managed to have human decendants, particularly after they'd sealed themselves off in the sacred realm, I'd like to hear you explain that.

I will not bother to explain that now, I will merely direct you to the article I linked to as it addresses just that point. Read it carefully, and remember that the story about the Imprisoning War in ALttP is a LEGEND. A myth, a story that has changed over time. Also, who says it wasn't a war? Within those seven years, Ganondorf destroyed Hyrule Castle and Hyrule Castle Town, attacked the Gorons, and pretty much destroyed most of Hyrule.

Here is the article again...
http://www.zeldalegends.net/index.php?n=article_26

4) And if you READ the explination, you'd know that the Time of Chaos is simply the term I use for the events detailed in Zelda 2's backstory, about the sleeping Zelda and Hyrule breaking up.

Fair enough, but I told you I can't read the spoiler section.

Edit: And Link had to change the past. If he didn't, he'd be too busy being asleep for 7 years to go to Termina and save it, so

No, as you know, after defeating Ganon, Link was sent back to the past by Zelda to 'regain his lost time'. This is when he went to Termina.
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Posted on 02-27-05 01:08 AM Link | Quote
Nooooooooooooo.

There aren't two timelines/realities. It's all one timeline. When Link pulls the Master Sword, he's sealed for 7 years, he doesn't immediately come to the future.

Now, Link goes to the future, defeats Ganon, comes back, goes off.

Now, no matter what, in seven years Link will defeat Ganon. End of story, he already saved the future. In 7 years he appears and defeats Ganon. One timeline. <_>
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