When is something "passion" and when is it "crazy"?

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Tarale

Posted on 04-10-07 12:16 PM

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I like design.

I don't know the first thing about it really as far as any actual study goes, I just... like trying to make things look good. I can spend ridiculous amounts of time choosing a typeface, and adjusting all the spacing, padding, around it, or picking colours, or whatnot. And I am really nitpicky. I mean really nitpicky.

On my last job application I spent a good couple of hours editing things like expanding the text in headers, changing the font repeatedly, modifying font sizes of *spaces* and ensuring that every em dash was exactly as it should be (instead of a hyphen!). I even refused to use a typeface that did not have non-lining numbers!

Even for this post—partially to illustrate my point though—I have modified the spacing and made sure to choose a screen typeface (Georgia—designed by Matthew Carter in 1993 for use on the screen) that has a proper italic and bold family as well as a standard one. Hell, it even has nice non-lining numbers.

At what point though does the kind of behaviour above stop being that I'm "passionate" about a topic, and just make me plain ol' crazy?

Sometimes I feel very silly with all of this, really. I have no formal training in design or typography but I go nuts for both. My del.icio.us is a jumbled collection of webdesign, design, colour theory and typography articles. I went through twelve—yes, twelve—typefaces before picking one for my job application!! I made sure to add actual em dashes to this post

At what point do I need to seek psychiatric help?

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Koitenshin -∞

Posted on 04-10-07 01:33 PM

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Well being a perfectionist is quite normal if you ask me. I happen to do most of that whenever I: code something, draft a piece of architecture, draw, write out another book, etc.

So don't think you're going overboard. You're just doing what's inside all of us.

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Kernal

Posted on 04-10-07 01:47 PM

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I tend to use Times New Roman for everything that will be printed. Maybe because in both high school and university, using a different font would result in points being deducted. (They especially hate fixed-width fonts, as they tend to make a short essay seem longer.)

I'm no good with designing anything though. I guess I'm not a visual person.

Tarale

Posted on 04-10-07 02:35 PM (rev. 2 of 04-10-07 02:40 PM)

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I hate Times New Roman. It is a horrible, horrible ugly font.

If you have it, Garamond, or Palatino Linotype prints well. They are both serif fonts, and should be more readable than Times New Roman. Palatino has larger proportions than Times New Roman. Book Antiqua tries to replicate Palatino with some success, but if you have Palatino Linotype it should be used instead of Book Antiqua.

And my work don't seem to like me using alternate fonts either. They're so used to Arial (sans-serif) and Times New Roman (serif) -- but Verdana (sans-serif) and Georgia (serif) are much better, more readable screen alternatives for the two

Bigger proportions -- easier to read.

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Kernal

Posted on 04-10-07 02:40 PM (rev. 2 of 04-10-07 02:40 PM)

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Times New Roman looks fine in print to me, but it is pretty bad on the screen if there is no anti-aliasing. I usually use Verdana for online stuff, but it has to be at least 10-point. I hate the ubiquitous 8-point Verdana (or anything 8-point) as it is overused and my vision isn't very good. I struggle to read lots of text in 8-point.

Tarale

Posted on 04-10-07 03:06 PM

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I don't like the way Times New Roman looks in print or on screen.

Of the serif fonts you can get reasonably easily in Windows / Office, my money is on Palatino Linotype for print, and Georgia for screen

Provided you have the fonts installed you should be able to compare, below:

Times New Roman
The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dogs. 1234567890
The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dogs. 1234567890

Palatino Linotype
The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dogs. 1234567890
The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dogs. 1234567890

Georgia
The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dogs. 1234567890
The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dogs. 1234567890

Notice that Times New Roman is the narrowest and "squishiest" of all of them. The italics are boring too and have little character.

Both the other two are wider, and have a higher x-height than Times New Roman. They are also better spaced out. This tends to help readability a lot.

And the italics are nicer too. And Georgia has nifty numbers

God I'm such a nerd.

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Kernal

Posted on 04-10-07 05:32 PM (rev. 4 of 04-10-07 05:33 PM)

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I do like Georgia and Palatino Linotype, I just have the mentality of "use a non-default font = receive a lower grade" hammered into my mind after years of overly strict English teachers. I don't see what should be wrong with using a different font for essays and such as long as it isn't too weird (cursive, wingdings, etc.), although I understand banning fixed-width fonts if the essay needs to be a certain amount of pages (as opposed to words), because less words fit on a page with most fixed-width fonts so the same-length essay will take more pages.

Koitenshin -∞

Posted on 04-10-07 06:42 PM

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I've always been partial to "Small Fonts" myself. 7pixel height below is what I use to tag the avatars I make.
The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dogs. 1234567890
It doesn't turn out right in this page though. Works awesome in Paint though. Yes I pixel everything in paint.

And yes I know I am a freak.

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Drag

Posted on 04-10-07 06:51 PM (rev. 2 of 04-10-07 06:51 PM)

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I use Arial for just about everything. I'm a sans-serif guy.

When I pixel art something, I have a bunch of monospace linux console fonts I use of varying sizes, so I either use that or I'll hand draw the font myself.

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Kernal

Posted on 04-10-07 06:57 PM

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I tend to prefer proportional fonts over monospace in most cases, as the latter tend to be ugly. Monospace does have its uses, and I usually use it for programming, but some people seem to have such an aversion to seing any code in a proportional font that they even switch fonts in the middle of a sentence like "The printf function is used to display things on the screen in C." Sheesh. The word "printf" won't suddenly become unintelligible if written in proportional text along with the rest of the sentence.

The most important thing for me, font-wise, is that I, l, and 1 are all distinct. Arial is no good because I and l look identical, for instance.

Koitenshin -∞

Posted on 04-10-07 07:06 PM

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But you have to admit that switching fonts mid-sentence has its purposes. For one i just found it easier to remember that code and its function because of the font change.

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Kernal

Posted on 04-10-07 07:17 PM (rev. 2 of 04-10-07 07:17 PM)

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Well, in that case, what's wrong with just using bold or something, or a different colour if the text appears online?

setz

Posted on 04-10-07 07:28 PM

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Posted by Tarale
changing the font repeatedly, modifying font sizes of *spaces* and ensuring that every em dash was exactly as it should be (instead of a hyphen!)

em dash's suck.

passion is when you like something alot, crazy is when you actually do something about it. Nothing wrong with crazy if you enjoy it and so-on blah blah

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Drag

Posted on 04-10-07 08:55 PM

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Posted by Kernal
I tend to prefer proportional fonts over monospace in most cases, as the latter tend to be ugly. Monospace does have its uses, and I usually use it for programming, but some people seem to have such an aversion to seing any code in a proportional font that they even switch fonts in the middle of a sentence like "The printf function is used to display things on the screen in C." Sheesh. The word "printf" won't suddenly become unintelligible if written in proportional text along with the rest of the sentence.

The most important thing for me, font-wise, is that I, l, and 1 are all distinct. Arial is no good because I and l look identical, for instance.

Typically, code is in monospace typeface to indicate that it's code, and not some wacky typo.
It's kinda like how you have to italicize non-English words in literature, like: "That certainly is non sequitur right there!"

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Yoru

Posted on 04-10-07 11:18 PM

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Posted by Tarale
I hate Times New Roman. It is a horrible, horrible ugly font.

If you have it, Garamond, or Palatino Linotype prints well.

A great number of books don't use Times New Roman, since it's not very easy on the eyes. I use Palatino Linotype or MS Mincho.

Lex Luthor

Posted on 04-10-07 11:20 PM

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I'm a BIT of a perfectionist.
And being upset cause things don't look just right is fine.
No need to worry.

Tarale

Posted on 04-11-07 01:22 AM

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Posted by setz
Posted by Tarale
changing the font repeatedly, modifying font sizes of *spaces* and ensuring that every em dash was exactly as it should be (instead of a hyphen!)

em dash's suck.

Why?

In some cases they are the correct thing to use.

Like with a time period, i.e. Monday—Friday
A hyphen is the right thing for a double-barrelled surname, i.e. Baron Haden-Guest

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setz

Posted on 04-11-07 01:28 AM

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because they're too long and un-needed. monday - friday works fine, or monday through friday works even better.

they could've used that ascii spot for something more useful like a penis or a turtle

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NightKev

Posted on 04-11-07 02:29 AM

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Posted by setz
they could've used that ascii spot for something more useful like a penis or a turtle

turtle=penis?

What exactly is the difference between "serif" and "sans-serif"?

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Kernal

Posted on 04-11-07 02:34 AM

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Serif refers to the little lines at the ends of the letters, like in this line of text.
Sans-serif means the font doesn't have those little lines, like in this line of text.

Note that Verdana does include serifs for I and 1 to differentiate them from l.

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