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Toxic
Posted on 04-08-07 09:36 PM Link | Quote | ID: 24831


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Posted by JDavis
Posted by Jinsei, benevolent star
Bebop is technically all filler and style.


I'm going to have to disagree with you on this note. Strongly.

Just because a series uses an episodic plot doesn't mean there's "no plot" or it's "all filler." If there's one thing that really grinds my gears it's people who have become so preconditioned to climactic plots that they refuse to recognize episodic plots as the legitimate (and, frankly, more realistic) method of storytelling that they are.


this man speaks so much truth I might give him the nickname of J "The Truth" Davis even if that's already Paul Pierece's nickname.

And there still is a story arc...

Xeogred
Posted on 04-09-07 03:19 AM Link | Quote | ID: 24962


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Bebop is pretty great, but possibly a bit overated.

Toxic
Posted on 04-09-07 03:59 AM Link | Quote | ID: 24984


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Well you can't just make a claim like that and leave it hanging...

Xeogred
Posted on 04-09-07 07:45 AM (rev. 6 of 04-09-07 07:55 AM) Link | Quote | ID: 25072


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lolz opinions?

I ... don't know. I can't explain it right now and I don't know why, but seriously, I've just seen maybe one too many out there claim its the best anime ever. Can't say I've seen that in awhile though, but still.

Its good. I loved it, I love the characters, the music rocks my face, the style was amazing, the movie was decent, the setting was sweet, and finally the plot that was there was amazing, hell the dub was excellent. But in the end its a far cry from being the best in my eyes.

Back in the day when Adult Swim was new and they aired it, I always thought Trigun was better, still do. But in the end, that's me!

I'd buy that though.
(in fact, I just ordered it).

On a random note, anyone have any good cyberpunk anime recommendations? Stuff like Armitage the 3rd, Ghost in the Shell, Iria ... I hear Ergo Proxy is good, maybe I should finally look into that.

Sgraff87
Posted on 04-09-07 08:43 AM (rev. 2 of 04-09-07 03:43 PM) Link | Quote | ID: 25098


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Posted by Xeogred

On a random note, anyone have any good cyberpunk anime recommendations? Stuff like Armitage the 3rd, Ghost in the Shell, Iria ... I hear Ergo Proxy is good, maybe I should finally look into that.


Akira, AD. Police, Angel Cop, Megazone 23, Cyber City Oedo, Appleseed
They might not be the best in the book, but basically the anime of the genre made in the 80's to early 90's are the most enjoyable.

Jin Dogan
Posted on 04-09-07 03:32 PM Link | Quote | ID: 25141


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Posted by Toxic
Posted by JDavis
Posted by Jinsei, benevolent star
Bebop is technically all filler and style.


I'm going to have to disagree with you on this note. Strongly.

Just because a series uses an episodic plot doesn't mean there's "no plot" or it's "all filler." If there's one thing that really grinds my gears it's people who have become so preconditioned to climactic plots that they refuse to recognize episodic plots as the legitimate (and, frankly, more realistic) method of storytelling that they are.


this man speaks so much truth I might give him the nickname of J "The Truth" Davis even if that's already Paul Pierece's nickname.

And there still is a story arc...


Please, I know what I am talking about.

First of all, note the use of the word TECHNICALLY. Now listen to me back up that claim. The series is mostly filler episodes and throughout the series you feel what the series is about as it shows you in each episode exactly what it is. Ok, got it? I am not badmouthing it or saying Bebop is bad, it is just pretty overrated and sometimes underrated. I like the aesthetic which is its strongest point. I just don't consider it worth buying.

And no I have definitely not "become so preconditioned to climactic plots that they refuse to recognize episodic plots as the legitimate (and, frankly, more realistic) method of storytelling that they are." Just because I like shounen anime(although not any more than any other genres) doesn't mean I always want to watch anime with such predefined barriers.

Xeogred: You want great cyberpunk/mecha? Look no further than Armored Trooper Votoms. Definitely all sorts of awesome.

Gideon Zhi
Posted on 04-09-07 07:26 PM Link | Quote | ID: 25169


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Ergo Proxy's just alright. It falls into the typical anime traps of over-convolution, dumb explanations, doing suddenly better in the face of adversity, and extremely poor filler episodes, though.

JDavis
Posted on 04-09-07 09:27 PM Link | Quote | ID: 25191


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Posted by Jinsei, benevolent star
Please, I know what I am talking about.

First of all, note the use of the word TECHNICALLY. Now listen to me back up that claim. The series is mostly filler episodes and throughout the series you feel what the series is about as it shows you in each episode exactly what it is. Ok, got it? I am not badmouthing it or saying Bebop is bad, it is just pretty overrated and sometimes underrated. I like the aesthetic which is its strongest point. I just don't consider it worth buying.

And no I have definitely not "become so preconditioned to climactic plots that they refuse to recognize episodic plots as the legitimate (and, frankly, more realistic) method of storytelling that they are." Just because I like shounen anime(although not any more than any other genres) doesn't mean I always want to watch anime with such predefined barriers.


And I'm just saying that, TECHNICALLY, you're wrong. There are no filler episodes. They each deal both with their own subplot as well as developing the main characters, and thus furthering the main plots: Spike and his past with the Syndicate and the eventual confrontation that results from it; Faye and her forgotten past which she is desperately searching for clues about; Jet and his past as an ISSP officer; and (to a lesser degree) Ed and Ein's pasts, personalities, and friendship. It is the show's episodic, character-driven nature that is its main strength.

Jin Dogan
Posted on 04-09-07 10:17 PM Link | Quote | ID: 25208


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I agree that there are character specific episodes and yea it does talk somewhat about the characters' pasts, but this claim is just ridiculous:

Posted by JDavis
There are no filler episodes.


There are many disposable filler episodes that don't achieve anything other than highlighting the badassery of the characters. And as a 26 episode series, I think that wasn't entirely the best route. Yes, they dealt with fillers better than most series.

Let me quote Eek's review from Animeacademy.com:

"Many episodes are downright filler or border on being filler; although all are entertaining, they manage to open up many questions without providing answers to character background and storytelling style."

Samurai Champloo did a better job of combining filler with character development. Both series have the same amount of episodes and roughly the same amount of main characters. (if you don't include Ed and Ein) And nearly all of the episodes were filler, moreso than Bebop, but the characters were constantly being fleshed out. Between the first time and the last that you see the characters in Bebop, they are pretty much the same people.

One can say that in Champloo the existence of an objective (i.e. finding the samurai who smells of sunflowers) makes it more defined but I don't think so.

Xeogred
Posted on 04-10-07 03:47 AM Link | Quote | ID: 25359


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Posted by Gideon Zhi
Ergo Proxy's just alright. It falls into the typical anime traps of over-convolution, dumb explanations, doing suddenly better in the face of adversity, and extremely poor filler episodes, though.

Eeek. I might stay away from it then.

JDavis
Posted on 04-10-07 09:14 AM Link | Quote | ID: 25436


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I can't think of a single Bebop episode that didn't provide insight into at least one of the main characters' personality and/or their relationship with each other.

Xeogred
Posted on 04-14-07 08:23 AM (rev. 6 of 04-14-07 08:25 AM) Link | Quote | ID: 26517


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You guys killed the thread ... or something.

Anyways, I am finally watching some anime on my own here. Randomly, but I started picking up back on Gungrave, and I watched 11 episodes in total today. I know that's probably nothing for some of you guys, but for me .. someone who just can't hold their interest usually when I try to watch anime, man its a world record for me.

I hope to finish it either tommorow or Sunday (I'm on 18). Probably will check out some other stuff afterwards, but I think I'll stick to shorter series. Just doesn't feel as overwhelming, for the more casual viewer like myself.

Mystery Gourmet
Posted on 04-14-07 08:56 PM Link | Quote | ID: 26619


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More stuff from this season that looks to be awesome

Bokurano - fucked up story, cool giant robot. Also, awesome opening
Lucky Star- OH GOD THE CUTENESS MY HEAD IS GOING TO EXPLODE. But Konata is <3333.
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