We have reached an impasse, and now a wall!

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Please chime in on a proposed restructuring of the ROM hacking sections.

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blackhole89

Posted on 01-05-12 02:12 AM

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So here we are now - surprisingly, perhaps - nearly 5 years into the history of board2; nearly 5 years, perhaps, into our downfall, or our sequence of appallingly bad administrative decisions. We have dipped below the two-digit mark of daily posts a few times over the past month or two, and I have quite clear recollections of that having been a trigger I decided on long ago for taking steps like this one. Given that we have now also been forked by a group of people whose claim to legitimacy is indisputable, it is clear that we have reached a point at which we can not simply go on.

Let's sit down and reevaluate what we even have going for ourselves.

The reason we split from Jul and Jul split from us was, basically, a disagreement over the value of community values; they advocated a close-knit model organised essentially like a somewhat centralised circle of friends, with a single leader choosing who to keep and who to boot based on the informal consensus of some narrow in-group of regulars. This didn't mesh particularly well with the increasing factionalisation of the board community before Xkeeper came around, and in particular resulted in a series of purges that certainly worked in favour of everyday harmony, but increasingly turned the board into a social monoculture. Although the price is non-neglectable, that can be avoided, and we are probably more capable/willing to try to avoid it. I believe there is some value in uniting people with different ideals/values/posting styles as long as we can get past the notion that inconvenient people can just be purged if only you manage to get more like-minded ones in power; whether others do or don't, I can't tell, but if they do, I think board2's claim to greater commitment in that regard is plausible.

We are tenacious. Hackers have come and gone; a split has come and gone; backdoors and more hackers have come and gone; $trendynewacmlmboardoftheday has come and gone several times, also. If the past years are any indication, posting something of value here means a good outlook for it to still be around years later.

We are being linked. If nothing else, we still have a bit of a name among the ROM hacking communities. Google finds us, and people who actually know things lurk.

Although many of them have moved on, we still have a non-neglectable deal of latent ROM hacking knowledge among those who do drop by every now and then. Won't somebody please think of the ROM hackers? or something.

All being said and done, every single of the above points probably could be deconstructed thoroughly. In that light, getting to the main issue I hope to make the topic of this thread - do you think there still is a place for board2 on the internet of 2012? If yes, what do we need to do to move there? If no, by all means respond anyway - I'd much prefer to be told so clearly and have no second thoughts when choosing to pull the plug over artificially stretching out the tail end of the demise any further. Yes, this means that a termination of this board is a realistic and viable option and we probably never have been quite as close to it.

Discussion is open, and as of this moment, any rules and conventions save for the purely technical points such as the advertisment ban and the general guideline to not do anything that would be actually disruptive to the few things still going shall be suspended - in other words, bans handed out will be reduced to an absolute minimum. If you are banned but would like to contribute, please let me or another administrator know via IRC or whatever means of communication you prefer; your ban will be lifted.

Holy cows shall be minimal in number. If you want to gloat or troll, go ahead; do, however, consider the possibility of using your time in some better way as it is perfectly clear to me and everyone else in authority that we have failed in proportion to the amount of power we held to avert this situation anyway. Whatever useful suggestions you might have regarding the course of action to take, bring them on.

Sincerely,
Your autocratic overlord

PS: I hope you all like the forced theme. I hoped to convey a certain atmosphere of despair and stringency; the only actual feedback I've heard so far called it "winterish".

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Nick

Posted on 01-05-12 02:24 AM

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I would like this to please stay open for the sake of the rom hackers.

For any other points of the community, I think the community could deal with being a lot more open in general and a lot less circle jerkish.

I've made these two statements time and time again, and I'll continue to make them.

That is my 2 cents, even though I know they aren't worth much around here.

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CyclopsCaveman

Posted on 01-05-12 02:27 AM (rev. 2 of 01-05-12 02:31 AM)

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Let me state that this is not the first 'beginning of the end' I would like to witness. I've been around the internet for a few years- if my memory serves me correct I've had a modicum of presence on forums since before the fifith grade (this was quite a long time ago, mind you, but not as long as it would be for some others at the time of this writing), and I've felt that in the later years I've been sort of just watching things happen, not unlike an acmlmboard version of the Watcher.

I've been telling myself for a while now I need to create a proper signature to pimp the websites I still regularly frequent, and I believe now would be as good a time as any to do so.

However, I've also felt that, despite being a wonderful place of intellectual discussion, that seems to be the only thing anyone ever wants in the board, rather than it being a place to relax and wind down after a hard day's night. Maybe a relaxing on the need for an overly high posting quality wouldn't hurt? I wouldn't know, however, since I haven't been in a situation such as this before.

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Xeruss

Posted on 01-05-12 03:51 AM

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Realistically, inactivity has been a recurring problem for the last several years. Influxes of activity like in the "good 'ol days" are sporadic at best and usually between a small handful of the same names. It's a problem that is no closer to being solved now than it was three years ago.

It would be sad to see the (albeit dwindling) activity in the ROM hacking section stop entirely, but there are no doubt other good boards for ROM hacking left.

Yeah, I love this place, and as sad as I would be to see it go, if it's just burning a hole in your pocket on the server costs then there's probably no point in maintaining it.

If money isn't really an issue, than I see no major problem with just leaving things as they are: a collection of roughly 35 regular visitors, joined sporadically in discussion by plenty of other interesting people who come and go at random.

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Kiokuffiib11

Posted on 01-05-12 03:59 AM

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I do believe a lot of the downfall, is that some of the admin,,, is treating new comers like they are outsiders. Sending rude messages to those who do things like top post, and saying rude things to those who do minor infractions. Also, those who do not speak good english are riddiculed to no end from what I've noticed. There is very close knit clicks, and if you're not in said click, you're treated like an outsider as well.

Also, shutting down of threads has been common by admins, because they do not like said thread (Jackass Genie would be a great example),,,, also shutting down threads, simply because they are not moved to the right spot, instead of moved. They should be told, yes, but, nicely, instead of rudely.

I know saying such things will NOT make me popular,,, although, if you'd like to gain numbers,,, you should take heed of my words, because I've heard the same things from others (In IMs and what not),,, though none dare say anything about it. I feel I am speaking for others as well for myself. Those are said downfalls which hinder this site's popularity.

I hope my words are listened to and valued. I enjoy the board,,, although, because of rudeness, I do not come as often.

I'm sure this will offend several, but, it needs to be noted if you want to save this site.

Thank you for your time.

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CyclopsCaveman

Posted on 01-05-12 04:02 AM (rev. 2 of 01-05-12 04:03 AM)

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Posted by Kiokuffiib11
There is very close knit clicks, and if you're not in said click, you're treated like an outsider as well.

Don't wanna sound rude here: the spelling that you're looking for in this case is "cliques". Hope that helps.

Also, I agree with what you've been saying, bad english seems to be a major no here, and people get made fun of it for some awful reason. Why is that?

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Googie

Posted on 01-05-12 04:04 AM

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I would hate to see this board go too, it'll suck cause this is one of the places I visit on a regular besides facebook & twitter.

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Kiokuffiib11

Posted on 01-05-12 04:21 AM

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Posted by CyclopsCaveman
Posted by Kiokuffiib11
There is very close knit clicks, and if you're not in said click, you're treated like an outsider as well.

Don't wanna sound rude here: the spelling that you're looking for in this case is "cliques". Hope that helps.

Also, I agree with what you've been saying, bad english seems to be a major no here, and people get made fun of it for some awful reason. Why is that?

Thank you! "Cliques." I'll try to remember that.

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AnAxemRanger

Posted on 01-05-12 04:42 AM

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Don't close this site down guys

This board has the best Super Mario RPG hacking community I've been to. I also enjoy seeing the various other hacks and utilities that people come up with in the other hacking subforums on this site. Think about the hackers!
I come on this site more than most other sites, even if I don't post outside of the SMRPG board that often. But if that's what it takes to keep this site up, I'll try to post more in other subforums as well.

This is the place to be!

Haz

Posted on 01-05-12 04:52 AM

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Give no ceremony.
Let it die slowly and painfully, for all to see.

stag019

Posted on 01-05-12 05:06 AM

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I'm not going to take my usual route, and actually put some thought into this post.

To echo what I said ... (this is the point where I looked for my old posts about it and didn't find any

) before, I believe this board was really over when Jul split. I also still feel there's so many other places the ROM Hackers can chill (Jul, romhacking.net, other boards for specific games) that this place is too irrelevant.

If I had more to say about it, I probably would, but really, it's just over. It's been over. It's sad, but I really think it's time to move on.

Plus look at it this way, if you set it up as an archive now, it will be the most complete archive of any incarnation (in this case former incarnation) of Acmlm's board.

Speaking of that, I still thought I had a database dump somewhere that had a fix for all the posts I messed up years ago.

KP9000

Posted on 01-05-12 05:08 AM

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     <KP9000> you've got to learn to see shit for face value
     <KP9000> what I said is what I said
     <KP9000> not whatever you think it might mean
<blackhole89> people expect you to read between the lines all the time
     <KP9000> well, what's between the lines is negligible when that's 
              what you're doing constantly, leading to false pretenses and pathways
     <KP9000> it's irritating
     <KP9000> and I'll go ahead and submit that as one of the problems I've had with this place

It's one of the things I believe accounted for bad administrative decisions as well as lack of administrative action altogether.

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Omi

Posted on 01-05-12 06:10 AM

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Hey Nick ♥
Hey Nick ♥
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Hey Nick ♥
Hey Nick ♥
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There's nothing really complicated to it, this is just a resource now for ROM hackers. There hasn't been any real community involvement for a good 2 years now. New people barely stay around.

But, honestly, if you do care about this place as much as you currently do, why wait until everyone just up and left? Why not do something when problems in activity first showed, and when the active posters basically stopped posting legitimate content / participating in anything properly?

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stag019

Posted on 01-05-12 06:36 AM (rev. 2 of 01-05-12 06:37 AM)

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Posted by Omi
But, honestly, if you do care about this place as much as you currently do, why wait until everyone just up and left? Why not do something when problems in activity first showed, and when the active posters basically stopped posting legitimate content / participating in anything properly?

To be honest, I think a big part of it was denial.

Also, I was so worried about my first post being serious that I forgot to say HI GOOGIE!

Edit: I also forgot to mention it's a rule of thumb that threads about boards not having much activity are generally extremely active threads.

Celice

Posted on 01-05-12 08:35 AM

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I've stalked acmlm since I was in the 8th grade... I'm finishing up under grad studies right now

I hated seeing everything dwindle away from what acmlm used to be like, and I saw that it died mostly a normal forum death. Large activity disappeared, and those internet buddies mentioned remained, which only made the forums a hang-out for people already acquainted. Lurkers like me, and members not part of the groups, didn't have a place to be

I used to tell people to go to acmlm for all their romhacking needs, but I had to stop because there just wasn't enough life. I check here now and again hoping to see a revival, but it's just not happening. gbatemp and romhacking dot net have become the new generic hacking places I tell people about.

I said all that 'cause I think it's true, that acmlm just is dead, and there's nothing more to it. I personally think it's a generational thing, that a bunch of the fans who made the forums what they were just happened to be around to give impulse and velocity to a forum like acmlm. And as our generation pushed on, newer ones came along with their own games and they got into their own forums and discussions--what we all valued just passed on and got left behind. I think we did too.

I've been a mad lurker since the original place was around, back when Challenge Hacks was active and working full force. Everything was so cool and awesome. I didn't bond with the members, but I definitely liked the hangout. I dunno what to do now, but I've been checking back here 'cause I'm interested still in what the oldies do for fun, what they're doing here. Peeps like Googie, I don't know where else to see their coolness now and again (I did find his cartoon page on Facebook though, to keep seeing his cool art style

).

I dunno if this is on topic with what the thread was meant for. I just think, overall, this is done. Maybe it's time to haul on to another place, and hang out there--keep peeps alive. But as far as resources are, unless there's like a merger with the members here and another active place, I don't think acmlm is ever going to live again. Which really sucks... 'cause even the board layout has this nice nostalgic feeling I don't get anywhere else.

Maybe that helped somehow. Or it does nothing at all, either way... This is what a lurker has to say, who's been here longer than I've been anywhere else.

Nick

Posted on 01-05-12 08:36 AM

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Acmlm isn't dead. I saw him talking just a few hours ago.

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Celice

Posted on 01-05-12 08:39 AM

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Oh whatever :p I mean the board. I always knew it as acmlm's board.

I would like to add that I hate seeing forums left to die. I get a hauntingly empty feeling whenever I see one.

za909

Posted on 01-05-12 09:05 AM

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I haven't been around here for nearly as long as most of you, so I guess all my points here will be completely ignored as "don't know what I'm saying" because I'm a fairly new user.

What I have to say is that people are lazy...lazy beyond belief. This thread got 2500 views in about 9 hours, but only 17 posts. Don't say the forum is dying, because it's not. People come here, read about things but they're just too lazy to actually register an account and join in or if they already have one, they are too lazy to login and express their thoughts. Now that "laziness" might be caused by bad administration, I can't really determine whether it's true or not because I haven't been around here for long enough...HOPEFULLY I will be able to.

So yeah, don't even think about shutting this place down...Why destroy years of work just because of a temporary decrease in activity...(at least hope it's only temporary) Just improve ONE thing: Give new people a nicer welcome.

Actually that's something I CAN talk about legitimately. Personally I didn't have any problems with anyone around here. I didn't expect to walk inside this place on a red carpet have everyone lick my boots. Noone should.

Quick Curly

Posted on 01-05-12 09:08 AM

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Ha, I was thinking the same thing as stag019 said regarding the occasional threads over the years concerning inactivity resulting in people actually posting. It would be very saddening to see the board go though regardless of whether or not it is archived (which I would hope for if it ever "had" to go) because of its history. I wasn't around for any of the split stuff, so I've never really tried to keep up with the conflicts on personal levels and with the different boards as a whole, nor have any of those issues ever caused me to intentionally avert being active on the board. I just don't always have ideas of things to post, but I still check the board almost daily, if not as regularly as possible.

For the most part, I've always mainly focused on ROM hacking, specifically SMB3 hacking, but for quite a while now, there hasn't really been too much of that, not that there hasn't been any at all. However, I've actually done more with it through Skype than I would probably do on here, although that also accounts for general conversations too (which I never really had much of a place in on the board).

Nonetheless, there will always be threads about inactivity for as long as this board and time continue. As long as the board is manageable, with regards to possible finances, time, and whatever else applicable, I don't see any real reason why the board would have to permanently end. No matter how few, I would like to believe that there will always be posts and members who enjoy coming here. Of course, I don't mean to influence whatever final decision(s) could eventually come about one way or the other because it's not my choice, but overall I think that too much emphasis is put on inactivity to discredit what the board has been for these last few years - a meaningful and influential community for all, where ROM hackers, video gamers and online enthusiasts alike have gathered to make and change history for the better; every interaction and conversation initiated and/or resulted in something that would not exist otherwise. Evidently, that can generally be said about any online community or simply friends who would not have otherwise met unless it was because of a place such as this, but I still feel that it is worth noting that Board 2 (and by extension, other incarnations which others had been a part of as well) has affected us more than we can probably remember, and we never know how else it could if we just continue to give it a chance, despite what it might have seemingly become or is on the verge of becoming.

What could possibly be done to try to help encourage just that? Well again, I don't know if I can really suggest anything that is meaningful or guaranteed to all of a sudden make a positively productive change, but I do agree that being less strict with potential posts/conversations is a reasonable course of action, because it could result in this feeling like a more open and inviting community again, rather than people deducing that potential posts are not worth making considering the amount of threads that get closed (although it's understandable in cases of spam accounts and irrelevantly revived topics). There's always the chance that any individual post could be the beginning of something that develops into the next big project or motivates other people to return and begin posting again.

I just hope for the best with whatever does happen. Board 2 is where I joined first when I started to ROM hack, so it is where I feel like it is home, and I have enjoyed meeting a lot of fellow members and ROM hackers over the years.

Nick

Posted on 01-05-12 09:38 AM

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well it's not like this place is going to disappear any time soon. if you're a rom hacker and using it, just keep doing so, for the love of god, please.

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