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PYRATROOPER
Posted on 05-18-11 09:43 PM Link | Quote | ID: 142203


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I found this article and found this very interesting and because of it I will NEVER BUY another Nintendo Product EVER for the rest of my life because it is total BS. So What do you think?


Posted by "Article
Nintendo has taken a page from Sony's playbook, even as the video game giant struggles to recover from the impact of its decision to remove Other OS support. The Free Software Foundation recently examined* the EULA and privacy policy Nintendo attaches to the 3DS; both are far more draconian than corresponding agreements for the DSi, DSi XL, DS Lite, or original DS.

Let's start with the privacy policy. The two documents are organized differently; a careful comparison indicates that the DSi policy matches the 3DS policy on nine of the latter's ten points. The missing point (ix in the 3DS agreement) is the importance differentiator. It states that Nintendo may collect Personally Identifiable Information (PII) in order to: 'prevent potentially illegal or offensive activities or to enforce our rights or the rights of our users.'(emphasis added)

Nintendo's Rights

The DSi's EULA states that customers (aka "You"):

may not use the Nintendo DSi Service for commercial or illegal purposes, in a way that may harm another person or company, or in any unauthorized or improper manner as we may specify from time to time in this agreement, our Nintendo DSi Code of Conduct, or otherwise.

The 3DS keeps this paragraph, but includes the following jaw-dropper:

By accepting this Agreement or using a Nintendo 3DS System or the Nintendo 3DS Service, you also grant to Nintendo a worldwide, royalty-free, irrevocable, perpetual, non-exclusive and fully sublicensable license to use, reproduce, modify, adapt, publish, translate, create derivative works from, distribute, perform and display your User Content in whole or in part and to incorporate your User Content in other works, in any form, media or technology now known or later developed, including for promotional or marketing purposes.

Imagine Microsoft or Adobe, neither of which is a champion of free/open source software, attempting to claim they owned all of the materials anyone created or edited using their software, or Bic asserting it had legal write (pun intended) to any missive composed using one of its various pens. That's what Nintendo is doing here, in a genuinely jaw-dropping example of hubris.

The company has also tightened its control over bricking the system, though the language is more subtle. The DSi EULA states: "We may take steps to disable any unauthorized software, services or device installed in your Nintendo DSi...by detecting and disabling them through the Nintendo DSi Service and/or game software. If we detect unauthorized software, services, or devices, your access to the Nintendo DSi Service may be disabled and/or the Nintendo DSi System or games may be unplayable."

Compare that to the 3DS EULA:

After the Nintendo 3DS menu is updated, any existing or future unauthorized technical modification of the hardware or software of your Nintendo 3DS System, or the use of an unauthorized device in connection with your system, will render the system permanently unplayable. Content deriving from the unauthorized modification of the hardware or software of your Nintendo 3DS system will be removed. Failure to accept the update may render games and new features unplayable.

Nintendo's massive power grab may be an attempt to end-run around the Supreme Court decision last summer that deemed jailbreaking fair use. By asserting that it completely owns everything related to or created with the 3DS, it may be trying to argue that there's no such thing as "fair use," because the user literally owns nothing. No matter what the company's motive, the new EULA needs to be challenged in a court of law. EULA's are not automatically legal; attempting to seize absolute control of users' rights is a bridge too far.


SOURCE: http://hothardware.com/News/Nintendos-3DS-EULA-Raises-Privacy-Content-Ownership-Concerns/


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MasterPhW
Posted on 05-19-11 12:57 AM Link | Quote | ID: 142207


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I don't really care about what's written in an EULA, as long as they don't cut my features down, like the Sony did multiple times with nearly each new hardware revision and later also with their firmware updates.

I don't plan on using illegal content, if I really will miss a game, because of its region or its language, I can still play and finish the game some gens later, after it has been translated and than probably also has enhanced gfx and sound because of an emulator.

And I would NEVER ever not buy a Nintendo console because I would miss all the great Nintendo games for ever!!! And that's a long time!

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Xeruss
Posted on 05-19-11 07:03 AM Link | Quote | ID: 142212


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As a fan of Wii homebrew, I find this upsetting. After having a taste of what homebrew can offer, I really would not wish to go back to just using approved, licensed, content. I was still tossing around the idea of purchasing a 3DS at some point over the summer, so I'll be sure to add this to my mental 'cons' list.

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MasterPhW
Posted on 05-19-11 01:17 PM Link | Quote | ID: 142215


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Wii Homebrew is/was so great, because it showed, what the Wii was missing from the beginning.
Multimedia features, HDD support, (translation) patches, region free gaming etc.
The 3DS already shows that Nintendo learned a lesson and to be honest, most Wii/DS Homebrew user used it for pirating games and that's the reason Nintendo wants to state in their EULA, that they have the possibility to disable all non Nintendo software.
The N64 was the last Nintendo console without any kind of Homebrew and just compare its game portfolio with the Wii game portfolio.

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PYRATROOPER
Posted on 05-19-11 04:50 PM (rev. 2 of 05-19-11 04:52 PM) Link | Quote | ID: 142222


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Posted by MasterPhW
Wii Homebrew is/was so great, because it showed, what the Wii was missing from the beginning.
Multimedia features, HDD support, (translation) patches, region free gaming etc.
The 3DS already shows that Nintendo learned a lesson and to be honest, most Wii/DS Homebrew user used it for pirating games and that's the reason Nintendo wants to state in their EULA, that they have the possibility to disable all non Nintendo software.
The N64 was the last Nintendo console without any kind of Homebrew and just compare its game portfolio with the Wii game portfolio.


There stating in the EULA that the can "brick" your system from ever working again because you did or used something unauthorized by them, PERIOD.

And as much as these corporations say that piracy is destroying the Movie music and Video game industries it is not true all.

Because if you look at it statically from 1999 each industry as listed above has released less and less content and at the same time they are increasing the price of everything. It is no wonder why the USED GAME market has increased in sales by over 500% over the same span.
It is also because of the USED GAME market EA and other companies have been using Online Keys in there NEW GAMES to make it that if I buy a USED GAME I have to PAY THEM $10 to $15 access any online features and now SONY and MICROSOFT are considering using PRODUCT KEYS on everything NEW GAME SOLD in retailers and then make every game Downloadable only which would the DESTROY THE USED GAME MARKET.


Also I just talked to COPYRIGHT AND PATENT lawyer and he said the 3DS EULA and NINTENDO saying the can "brick" your system from ever working again because you did or used something unauthorized by them is ILLEGAL because under US law EULA are not enforceable on the consumer and when you by a PRODUCT WE OWN IT.

Also there has been homebrew on every Nintendo system including the N64 to date.

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MasterPhW
Posted on 05-19-11 05:32 PM Link | Quote | ID: 142224


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The brick rumor is there since the launch of the hardware and even before. We just don't need to believe everything the industry or some sites tell us. I won't believe, that Nintendo will really do it till it really happened and is NOT a user failure.

And homebrew on the N64 happened most of the time with emulator help, most of it way after the abandonment of the console and hard to do yourself.

DS & Wii homebrew started shortly after the release and leaded mainly to copyright infringements and game pirating. That's one of the reasons why both consoles got less games after some time and a lot games got a lot less sales, than they really deserved.

Just compare the first red steel with it successor. It had better gfx (but a shitty art style compared to the first one imho), a "true" 1:1 sword control and many more features. And it had less sales because of the "free is better than everything" body of thought.

Believe me, I really like the homebrew idea and all its possibility, but a lot must have homebrew hasn't been released for DS or Wii. Most of it, you can have also with a PC or Mac and then a lot better!
And the only REAL great homebrew, which wasn't possible before is Riivolution and it nearly has no supporters, because it don't work with backup loaders or pirated games.

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Gywall
Posted on 05-19-11 05:55 PM Link | Quote | ID: 142227


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Piracy has really plagued Nintendo for a long while, I'm not too surprised about the unauthorised hardware/software clause.

I remember a point where I saw every ad on a page advertising piracy for Wii or DS. I even heard it where I work - planning to download "a couple of games for the kids to play, and a couple of movies for us to watch while the kids play"

It also depends on where you are in the world. Piracy is greater in some places than others. Used games, movies, etc are in decline over here - I'm seeing stores stocking more stock in new than used condition than I used to.

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PYRATROOPER
Posted on 05-19-11 07:42 PM (rev. 2 of 05-19-11 07:44 PM) Link | Quote | ID: 142232


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I just found another article and found that it sums it up pretty well. And think about it this way if Nintendo can get away with this. So will Apple on all there iOS products and then Google on there Android OS phones. Talk about being outrageous. Also this is most likely just an attempt to get around the ruling last year that "Jail breaking" is legal.

Posted by ARTICLE
The Terms of Service (TOS) agreement that you agree to when you turn on a Nintendo 3DS isn’t something most people flip through. After all, you’ve already paid for the thing, and you want to play. The anti-DRM group Defective by Design has read it though, and are concerned enough about what it contains that they think you should be too. The group gained fame after campaigning against Apple to remove DRM from iTunes Music Store downloads, which Apple later did on its own.

The group is raising money to send Nintendo President and COO Reggie Fils-Aime a bundle of cardboard bricks to protest Nintendo’s ability to remotely update, change, or even brick your 3DS if they choose to. The statement is buried in the TOS, but Nintendo does reserve the right to remotely manage your 3DS or in the words of the TOS, “render the system permanently unplayable” if they feel they have a reason to, specifically if they think you’re pirating games.

Additionally, the TOS gives Nintendo the right to track the games you play and any personal information you enter into the console, including your name, age, gender, and the area in which you live. By accepting the TOS, you also give Nintendo exclusive and royalty-free rights to the content you create or data you put on your 3DS. The 3DS is also region-locked, meaning gamers in North America won’t be able to play Japanese or EU-released games on their 3DS without also importing a handheld from that region as well as the game.

The group also takes issue with the statement in the TOS that the 3DS can and will connect to the Internet and directly to Nintendo’s servers to upload log files or to update is DRM software. All of that uploaded data is then used to target advertisements to you – the TOS allows Nintendo to sell or share your personally identifiable information to third parties in order to provide targeted advertising to you.

Defective by Design thinks the rights that Nintendo has granted itself in the 3DS’ terms go too far, and are accepting donations for the “Brick Nintendo” campaign. They’re also inviting concerned 3DS owners and Nintendo fans to write a letter to the company to complain, or to order the bricks themselves, assemble them, and then send them with their own letter to Nintendo headquarters.

Regardless of whether or not you think the TOS is excessive, the group is technically correct: every item they list is actually in the terms of service that you agree to when you power on the device. However, whether or not Nintendo will ever go to such lengths to advertise, sell personal information, or brick handhelds remains to be seen.


SOURCE:http://www.geek.com/articles/games/anti-drm-group-wants-to-send-nintendo-bricks-to-protest-3ds-terms-of-service-20110518/

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blackhole89
Posted on 05-19-11 07:47 PM Link | Quote | ID: 142233


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Apple is already doing things that are much worse than that, and the hipsters and cultists are gobbling it up. It's relatively likely Android will eventually roll down the same path, and nothing will change in this case either as most users have MasterPhW's "They'll only make use of this when the user is really evil, promise!" attitude towards this kind of thing. (Not that this even explains the granting all rights to user-generated content part.)

Not that I even play games that much anymore, but I'll just continue pirating. No problems at all.

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chungy
Posted on 05-20-11 06:22 AM Link | Quote | ID: 142252


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Posted by blackhole89
Apple is already doing things that are much worse than that, and the hipsters and cultists are gobbling it up.

True, but a few like RIM and Microsoft are implementing even worse restrictions than Apple does.

Posted by blackhole89
It's relatively likely Android will eventually roll down the same path, and nothing will change in this case either as most users have MasterPhW's "They'll only make use of this when the user is really evil, promise!" attitude towards this kind of thing. (Not that this even explains the granting all rights to user-generated content part.)

Actually it's fairly unlikely Android would ever roll down that path, and if Google ever does it, a fork will happen.

MasterPhW
Posted on 05-20-11 06:26 AM Link | Quote | ID: 142254


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It's really sad to see, that some seems to be proud to do pirating games, instead of just support the companies that made these games.

It's the new contra livestyle of being hip, it seems to me.

Everybody that earns money and tell games his or her hobby, should also support the hobby instead of saying, just because they can do this stuff, they will do it and that's the reason I pirate.

I was the first one, that screamed hooray after the PS3 was hacked. But if you look at the PS3 homebrew scene you can see a backuploader, a backuploader and another backuploader. Why? Because it helps to play "free" games.

A use able media center appeared long after Sony fixed the exploit, that was the reason I already updated. No additional functionality, like a XMB last.fm plugin, a proper youtube plugin or a browser was released. The main focus of all homebrewer was the backup scene. And that's the reason for me, that I decided I don't need homebrew at my PS3. It's still lacking a lot and it needs some time to be done via homebrew, but the only real development was in the backuploader part. And that's the sad truth.

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Trelior
Posted on 05-20-11 06:46 AM Link | Quote | ID: 142255


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I have to say that I'm all for homebrew and everything, and Nintendo (read: Nintarded) is blowing things waaaaay out of proportions.

I'm with bh on piracy though, but only at the extent of games on older systems that are rended as unobtainium due to collector value. Games like Legend of Mana and Final Fantasy Tactics: The Zodiac Brave Story, both are my utmost favorite Playstation games, and I downloaded emulatable .isos of them to play them.

Though, I admit I do my fair share of DS piracy because of my r4 flashcarts. That's mainly because I saved myself hundreds of dollars by downloading roms and testing games if I like them, because I'm a pretty fickle gamer with a strapped budget. Spending $50 once is better than spending upwards of $20 for games I'll wind up hating, and only get pennies on the dollar turning them back in.

Just sayin'

chungy
Posted on 05-20-11 06:53 AM Link | Quote | ID: 142256


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Posted by MasterPhW
It's really sad to see, that some seems to be proud to do pirating games, instead of just support the companies that made these games.

this is nothing to do with piracy pride, it's to do with being able to use your own devices to your own will. Nintendo is being outright evil here. (And to that point, Nintendo hasn't made anything worth playing to me in many years ANYWAY, so they're not getting my money no matter what)

KP9000
Posted on 05-20-11 07:09 PM Link | Quote | ID: 142273


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Posted by chungy
this is nothing to do with piracy pride, it's to do with being able to use your own devices to your own will. Nintendo is being outright evil here. (And to that point, Nintendo hasn't made anything worth playing to me in many years ANYWAY, so they're not getting my money no matter what)
First of all, this whole EULA deal is just to cover Nintendo's ass. They don't actually aggressively pursue its utter fulfillment to the letter. The fact that it's there just seems to give someone something to bitch about. That's it.

And Nintendo isn't the one to even think about worrying about here; it's Sony, what with all that Geohotz crap that transpired.

Thing is, those that claim to make Wii "homebrew" (read: usb loaders) and claim that they do not support piracy is bullshit. If the logic in this thread is genuine, then this is what should be bitched about.

All this is, guys, is the reaction of a company to cover their own asses in a world where fast food companies can be sued for burns to a customer caused by a customer.

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Xeruss
Posted on 05-20-11 09:05 PM Link | Quote | ID: 142275


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Posted by MasterPhW
most Wii/DS Homebrew user used it for pirating games

Yeah, not to mislead you by my statements or anything, cause this is the reason I started using homebrew. My reasons were pretty similar to Trel's: I was a gamer on a budget and didn't want to drop $50 for a game I wasn't certain I would like.
Though about a year or so ago I burned out on console games, and I can really only stand to play them for about 10 minute spans now. Nowadays, my Wii's only regular use is for WiiMC; a homebrew mediacenter application.

As far as their "tough new stance" on piracy and homebrew, I would be pretty upset if they aren't just blowing smoke, mainly because my use of the console would probably drop off entirely after a couple years otherwise.

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KP9000
Posted on 05-21-11 12:32 AM Link | Quote | ID: 142281


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I will admit to some piracy here, but I find that having all your games in one place to be extremely useful to me. I hated carrying around a ton of DS/GBA games, and often would need to buy cases from them. I once lost a DS game because I had carried them around in my pocket for a while, and when reaching in to get one, one fell out and got shredded up in an escalator. As for Wii, scratched discs? Fuck that. I have legitimately modded people's wii's and loaded *only* that person's physical library of games onto it, because they have a family that isn't nice to discs.

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