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al2fenrir
Posted on 06-09-10 04:29 PM Link | Quote | ID: 131880


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Last view: 4967 days 		Religion will be defeated by Science

Says Stephen Hawking. I really admire the guy. He almost lay vegetable in his chair, but he thinks more intelligently than most people does. Anyway, just read the article.

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Kawa
Posted on 06-09-10 04:32 PM Link | Quote | ID: 131883


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Funny. I was just reading something related on Pharyngula: Donohue vs. Hawking
Posted by PZ Myers
It's like Bambi vs. Godzilla, except no one would consider Donohue cute and innocent.

As for science defeating religion...


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al2fenrir
Posted on 06-09-10 05:23 PM (rev. 3 of 06-09-10 05:48 PM) Link | Quote | ID: 131889


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As for Science coming out of religion... is that true?

But it's not how it seemed to me... it was like as if people's minds have evolved. As they gain more knowledge, they began to detach from their primitive ways.

But there's a question that really bugs me. What happens if religion disappears? Would that be for the better or for the worst? People always thought of religion as a guide to morality, that God fear kept most people in checked. If that fear disappears, what would be its impact on society?

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Kawa
Posted on 06-09-10 06:12 PM Link | Quote | ID: 131893


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Posted by al2fenrir
As for Science coming out of religion... is that true?
Did you even read what I linked?
Posted by al2fenrir
People always thought of religion as a guide to morality, that God fear kept most people in checked. If that fear disappears, what would be its impact on society?
You might notice if you archive binge the site a bit, that morality does not require the Fear of God (which itself is a silly argument, you can figure out why). I can't possibly make statements about the future, but let's just say shit goes bad. Real bad.

The nonbelievers, having their own sense of morality remain as is, at first. Some believers realise that even without Godfear™, they're still not eating babies. However, other believers - fundies, perhaps - might snap. They'd promptly riot, kill and be total assmunchers. But then what? Well, the others who do have a sense of morality keep the assmunchers down until they figure out what the hell they're doing -- in a morally sound, well thought-out way, ofcourse.

But that's just one jackass's hypothesis.

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al2fenrir
Posted on 06-09-10 06:54 PM Link | Quote | ID: 131897


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Posted by Kawa
Posted by al2fenrir
As for Science coming out of religion... is that true?
Did you even read what I linked?
Posted by al2fenrir
People always thought of religion as a guide to morality, that God fear kept most people in checked. If that fear disappears, what would be its impact on society?
You might notice if you archive binge the site a bit, that morality does not require the Fear of God (which itself is a silly argument, you can figure out why). I can't possibly make statements about the future, but let's just say shit goes bad. Real bad.

The nonbelievers, having their own sense of morality remain as is, at first. Some believers realise that even without Godfear™, they're still not eating babies. However, other believers - fundies, perhaps - might snap. They'd promptly riot, kill and be total assmunchers. But then what? Well, the others who do have a sense of morality keep the assmunchers down until they figure out what the hell they're doing -- in a morally sound, well thought-out way, ofcourse.

But that's just one jackass's hypothesis.


Yes of course I did. Maybe, I didn't get what PZ Myers was pointing out but I did read that link.

But, I wasn't referring to instantaneous big issues. I'm referring to small issues that people might neglect, only to realize later that it results to something big at the end. There are a couple of issues really... like having unwanted pregnancies, insulting other people then it leads to murder, etc. etc.

Btw, have you heard of Saudi Arabia? They have a low crime rate because of their strict adherence to religion. Their punishment are really brutal but it somehow kept the crime rate very low. Not that I'm in favor of religion.

It's just that sometimes I thought of religion as a catalyst. Well, you have to understand that I'm not that smart.

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NightKev
Posted on 06-10-10 09:23 AM Link | Quote | ID: 131915


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They have a low crime rate because (almost) any crime is punishable by (near-)death. It's not "strict adherence to religion", it's "fear of being beaten to death by the corrupt authorities".

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blackhole89
Posted on 06-10-10 09:33 AM Link | Quote | ID: 131916


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It all depends on how you define a crime. If a crime is what is illegal under the respective jurisdiction, you can trivially construct an entirely crime-free country by not passing any laws.

If, on the other hand, you consider the moral police pushing children who try to escape back into a burning girls' school because they aren't aren't properly covered criminal conduct... (if source links are required, I can provide)

On that matter, I think Prof Hawking is being excessively optimistic. This might be not surprising in someone who is pretty much physically bound to the deepest pits of the bubble of academia in a country where religious people don't have the degree of influence they have in a United States or Saudi Arabia anyway, but really, up here, it is all too easy to maintain the illusion. As time progresses, science becomes more and more fractured, not united, simply by the continuing branching up due to its progress, and the well has long been poisoned as far as individual scientists falling victim to religious thought - perhaps of a "oh, we have a perfectly natural explanation for what is happening in the particular field I am in, but I don't really understand what's going on in this and that field I'm not really specialized in and I feel better by believing all of that is controlled by a personal deity anyway" flavour - goes. With a cacophony of individuals who are only willing to concede a secular interpretation of their own particular field of specialization and couldn't consistently defend the nonreligious view on something that is outside of their field even if they wanted to, any organized scientific opposition that would be capable of swaying society-at-large is unlikely.

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al2fenrir
Posted on 06-12-10 11:37 AM Link | Quote | ID: 131954


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Posted by NightKev
They have a low crime rate because (almost) any crime is punishable by (near-)death. It's not "strict adherence to religion", it's "fear of being beaten to death by the corrupt authorities".


I see. Well, I guess you're right.

My country is dominated by Roman Catholic Christianity and yet, we have a high crime rate. Religion or "fear of God" didn't help much a bit.

So I'd guess proper education is the right solution to this problem and not religion.

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Kawa
Posted on 06-12-10 04:37 PM Link | Quote | ID: 131955


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Posted by al2fenrir
So I'd guess proper education is the right solution to this problem and not religion.
Mind if I quote this for truth?

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al2fenrir
Posted on 06-12-10 05:38 PM Link | Quote | ID: 131956


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Posted by Kawa
Posted by al2fenrir
So I'd guess proper education is the right solution to this problem and not religion.
Mind if I quote this for truth?


Sure Jim.

By the way, here's your Bambi vs Godzilla video.



Well, I guess it's not a pretty good picture, but what the heck.

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Kawa
Posted on 06-12-10 09:15 PM Link | Quote | ID: 131962


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Well, that was delightfully stupid.

Kinda like Bill Donohue, actually.

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Cheeseum
Posted on 06-17-10 06:32 AM Link | Quote | ID: 132057


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Last view: 4338 days 		Religion still seems to serve a purpose as to explain what science cannot. A means to fill the irrational little holes in our minds like hope and uncertainty.
Science will steamroll over it soon enough.

I for one welcome our new scientific overlords.

Ailure
Posted on 06-21-10 12:14 AM Link | Quote | ID: 132226

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I heard that some psychologists consider religion almost a human defense mechanism against things that we cannot explain. So we just make up things that sounds believable at the time.

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al2fenrir
Posted on 06-21-10 08:28 PM Link | Quote | ID: 132258


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Posted by Ailure
I heard that some psychologists consider religion almost a human defense mechanism against things that we cannot explain. So we just make up things that sounds believable at the time.


It falls under intellectualization further resulting to "Magical Thinking".

It is a neurotic type of defense mechanism. Neurotic does not necessarily mean insane, but it is somewhat in the borderline.

I just realized that religion is the bastion for people who are too lazy to think and understand.

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Kawa
Posted on 06-21-10 08:32 PM Link | Quote | ID: 132259


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Posted by al2fenrir
I just realized that religion is the bastion for people who are too lazy to think and understand.
You've come a long way, li'l buddy.

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Ice Penguin
Posted on 06-22-10 05:32 AM (rev. 3 of 06-22-10 06:13 AM) Link | Quote | ID: 132275


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Last view: 4792 days 		I doubt religion will be "defeated" by science. They are like boy and girl, with one being harder to understand than the other; But they both exist.

*sings*

Edit: What I meant to say with that last part is: They will both be around forever. ...until we blow up Earth.

RT-55J
Posted on 06-23-10 07:53 PM (rev. 2 of 06-23-10 08:09 PM) Link | Quote | ID: 132330

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EDIT: Hey guys this should be in the Debate forum.

Googie
Posted on 06-24-10 05:49 AM Link | Quote | ID: 132339


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Last view: 12 days 		Pretty good article, I for one can do with Religion™ for the simple fact that people hide what they are behind it. There's war because of it etc. With Science the world can be a better place imho.

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RT-55J
Posted on 06-24-10 09:21 AM Link | Quote | ID: 132345

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Last view: 58 days 		Hey guys I need working definitions of Science™ and Religion™ from you guys before I decide whether or not to write up a proper response to this thread.

Ailure
Posted on 06-24-10 12:18 PM (rev. 3 of 06-24-10 12:23 PM) Link | Quote | ID: 132348

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Can't really answer about the religion part, but I guess looking up about Scientific method might help regarding science, especially since that is what defines it. When something is called pseudo-science, it usually implies it's not really following the scientific method...

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