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04-27-24 02:59 AM |
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| 0 users currently in ROM Hacking | 2 guests | 2 bots |
| Main - ROM Hacking - asm programming = slave labor | New thread | New reply |
| Aaendi |
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 Red Koopa Level: 27 Posts: 23/131 EXP: 109197 Next: 6962 Since: 10-18-09 Last post: 4671 days Last view: 4331 days |
It's not all assembly languages that I consider as slave labor, it's mostly just 65816 asm.
1) you have to clear carry bit before adding. 2) you can't do math with the index registers. 3) you have to switch modes between 8-bit and 16-bit to use the other. Other cpus don't have these archetectural flaws. |
| Parasyte |
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 Red Goomba Level: 18 Posts: 40/48 EXP: 24788 Next: 5109 Since: 02-09-09 From: Flagstaff, AZ Last post: 5211 days Last view: 5188 days |
You're right; other CPUs have other architectural flaws. |
| Aaendi |
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Red Koopa Level: 27 Posts: 24/131 EXP: 109197 Next: 6962 Since: 10-18-09 Last post: 4671 days Last view: 4331 days |
Posted by Parasyte Like? |
| Kawa |
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 CHIKKN NI A BAAZZKIT!!! 80's Cheerilee is best pony Level: 138 Posts: 3087/5344 EXP: 30946521 Next: 716460 Since: 02-20-07 From: The Netherlands Last post: 4499 days Last view: 2634 days |
Hey, nobody's perfect, and by extension nothing we make is perfect. Ofcourse CPUs have flaws! When they fixed the floating point division bug in the early Pentiums, it was still flawed in other ways. ____________________ Wife make lunch - Shampoo Opera - give it a spin Spare some of your free time? <GreyMaria> I walked around the Lake so many goddamn times that my sex drive was brutally murdered Kawa rocks  — byuu |
| DahrkDaiz |
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 Nipper Plant Sandwich Artist Level: 46 Posts: 339/417 EXP: 674487 Next: 37287 Since: 02-22-07 Last post: 3487 days Last view: 3407 days |
Posted by Aaendi Of course, that's because the carry bit is needed to do math beyond native cpu word sizes, otherwise you have no way of knowing when the value exceeds the storage unit. It's a feature and much needed. Posted by Aaendi That's because they're "index registers" used for "indexing". It's a slight nuisance anyway and you can still do major math operations without indexer registers. Posted by Aaendi Like Parasyte, other CPUs have their own architectural flaws. Once again, it's really not "slave labor". Try writing machine code on punch cards or blowing out programmable ROM fuses. Back when then ASM language came out, it was a god send. People loved the fact they could write code that looked remotely readable. The SNES isn't super powerful, but it's still a freaking beast compared to other consoles of its time. It removed so many limitations the NES had. |
| Aaendi |
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Red Koopa Level: 27 Posts: 25/131 EXP: 109197 Next: 6962 Since: 10-18-09 Last post: 4671 days Last view: 4331 days |
Posted by DahrkDaiz Most cpu's have both an add with carry, and an add without carry opcode. Posted by DahrkDaiz When your in a tight loop it becomes very useful. |
| Parasyte |
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Red Goomba Level: 18 Posts: 42/48 EXP: 24788 Next: 5109 Since: 02-09-09 From: Flagstaff, AZ Last post: 5211 days Last view: 5188 days |
Posted by AaendiPosted by DahrkDaiz Behold, CISC architectures! (65c816 is technically a CISC architecture, but it's very simple compared to x86-like architectures. Zilog z80 comes to mind... This is why RISC instruction sets were invented; If you have only a single instruction that performs a specialized operation, and apply that same methodology across all instructions, you're left with a very well-tuned architecture that can be learned in mere hours. Who needs two add instructions (much less five or six) when one will do? Posted by AaendiPosted by DahrkDaiz Tight loops are bad for many reasons. Mostly where efficiency is a concern; CPUs with branch prediction can help reduce branch overhead inside tight loops, but on SNES, you're SOL; unroll those loops if you want to write fast[er] code! |
| Aaendi |
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Red Koopa Level: 27 Posts: 30/131 EXP: 109197 Next: 6962 Since: 10-18-09 Last post: 4671 days Last view: 4331 days |
I think my problem was that I over-thought my animation system, when I should've taken a different approach from the beginning. |
| Aaendi |
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Red Koopa Level: 27 Posts: 31/131 EXP: 109197 Next: 6962 Since: 10-18-09 Last post: 4671 days Last view: 4331 days |
Most of you can program for fun. I'm forced to program a game because other programmers keep critisizing me. |
| spel werdz rite |
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 Paratroopa Level: 30 Posts: 137/156 EXP: 154367 Next: 11502 Since: 02-19-07 Last post: 4805 days Last view: 1090 days |
You're not really forced to do anything. And programmers who criticize you just because you don't program is a dick move. Simple concept: if you don't want to and you don't have to, why do it? |
| DahrkDaiz |
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Nipper Plant Sandwich Artist Level: 46 Posts: 345/417 EXP: 674487 Next: 37287 Since: 02-22-07 Last post: 3487 days Last view: 3407 days |
Posted by Aaendi What? Forced? No one can force you to program anything. Why can't you program for fun anyway? Why not choose to program something you like. |
| Parasyte |
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Red Goomba Level: 18 Posts: 43/48 EXP: 24788 Next: 5109 Since: 02-09-09 From: Flagstaff, AZ Last post: 5211 days Last view: 5188 days |
If you don't want to be a programmer, you shouldn't become a programmer. This ideal applies everywhere equally; I do not want to be an artist, so I never became an artist. |
| Aaendi |
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Red Koopa Level: 27 Posts: 32/131 EXP: 109197 Next: 6962 Since: 10-18-09 Last post: 4671 days Last view: 4331 days |
Eventhough I don't want to be a programmer, I still want my game to be made. I have such an imagination of what I want, and I don't want to put it to waste. |
| blackhole89 |
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 The Guardian Moloch whose eyes are a thousand blind windows! Level: 124 Posts: 2833/4196 EXP: 21534091 Next: 302510 Since: 02-19-07 From: Ithaca, NY, US Last post: 472 days Last view: 84 days |
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| Aaendi |
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Red Koopa Level: 27 Posts: 33/131 EXP: 109197 Next: 6962 Since: 10-18-09 Last post: 4671 days Last view: 4331 days |
Basically, if your smart enough to get more than 3 sprites onscreen without any slowdown, your smart enough to help. |
| NightKev |
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 Cape Luigi Level: 131 Posts: 4078/4792 EXP: 26231436 Next: 193184 Since: 03-15-07 Last post: 3735 days Last view: 3647 days |
...What does that have to do with any of the other posts in this thread? ____________________ |
| Kawa |
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CHIKKN NI A BAAZZKIT!!! 80's Cheerilee is best pony Level: 138 Posts: 3129/5344 EXP: 30946521 Next: 716460 Since: 02-20-07 From: The Netherlands Last post: 4499 days Last view: 2634 days |
I've been wondering for the past day or so how badly you have to mess up to get slowdown from having more than three sprites on screen.
Now, if it were an Atari 2600... ____________________ Wife make lunch - Shampoo Opera - give it a spin Spare some of your free time? <GreyMaria> I walked around the Lake so many goddamn times that my sex drive was brutally murdered Kawa rocks — byuu |
| Aaendi |
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Red Koopa Level: 27 Posts: 34/131 EXP: 109197 Next: 6962 Since: 10-18-09 Last post: 4671 days Last view: 4331 days |
I've been wondering that question for the last 3 years! Some people redicule me for beleiving the Super Nintendo is fast enough to show 4 sprites onscreen, when it is so obviously true. |
| Parasyte |
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Red Goomba Level: 18 Posts: 45/48 EXP: 24788 Next: 5109 Since: 02-09-09 From: Flagstaff, AZ Last post: 5211 days Last view: 5188 days |
Do you want to be a developer, or a designer?
There are advantages to having knowledge of both. But to create a "killer app" you really need a dedicated team. Sure, some people can create a complete game alone (*cough* Sivak *cough*) but that doesn't mean his games are killer apps. (No offense, Siv! Battle Kid is a fine example of what a single person can do.) All I am saying is, you might want to focus on just one thing. Design? Direction? Art? Music? Programming? Story? Writing? Trust me, programming is not the most important out of that list. |
| Kawa |
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CHIKKN NI A BAAZZKIT!!! 80's Cheerilee is best pony Level: 138 Posts: 3132/5344 EXP: 30946521 Next: 716460 Since: 02-20-07 From: The Netherlands Last post: 4499 days Last view: 2634 days |
Posted by AaendiWell, it can! If people think the SNES isn't fast enough to display four or more sprites on screen, they haven't played a single SNES game. Even the NES could handle more than that, for fuck's sake. If a game slows down when it has more than a handful of sprites on screen, that's not the system's fault -- that just means the game is badly written and does more stuff than it needs to. tl;dr: I ridicule those people right back and so should you. Edit "Sprites: 128, 32 max per line; up to 64x64 pixels" -- SNES Video section on Wikipedia[56] Feel free to use that when ridiculing back, or find some other technical reference that'll say the exact same thing. ____________________ Wife make lunch - Shampoo Opera - give it a spin Spare some of your free time? <GreyMaria> I walked around the Lake so many goddamn times that my sex drive was brutally murdered Kawa rocks — byuu |
| Main - ROM Hacking - asm programming = slave labor | New thread | New reply |
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