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04-26-24 06:09 PM |
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| Main - ROM Hacking - Hey! Hey! How's about a ROM Hack with a Random Theme! | New thread | New reply |
| dracmeister |
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Level: 8 Posts: 1/8 EXP: 1640 Next: 547 Since: 12-03-09 Last post: 4873 days Last view: 4439 days |
~Masochism at it's-- I don't know...Hey! People!
Now, I've made a ROM Hack which has a "Nintendo-ish" kind of level style.(IMO) I'll be posting more of this one later, right now there's this one video I uploaded to youtube! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_noQ_FYxD8 I hope I'm not annoying anyone, I just a basic kind-of hacker. Anyways, I'm willing to ask any questions that maybe a bit problematic in the later portions of my hack! ____________________ *wink* Techie making his mark LOL |
| Xeruss |
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 Sledge Brother Compromised account. Level: 86 Posts: 1072/1815 EXP: 6125924 Next: 16183 Since: 02-19-07 From: Oregon Last post: 1813 days Last view: 1812 days |
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| Mineyl |
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 Ninji Level: 35 Posts: 114/243 EXP: 276876 Next: 3060 Since: 09-10-09 From: World 5 Last post: 4278 days Last view: 463 days |
It looks...bad. Better than some, but it could definitely use some work.
1-1 looked okay until I noticed the weird pipe formation and bad palette transitions a couple screens from the start. Try to fix that. 1-2 has a lot of perspective issues. It'd be easy for the player to mistake those green tiles at the bottom of the stage for a floor...not to mention that the pipes and some places in the ground look like they're coming OUT of that when they should be in front of it. A strange error considering it doesn't happen at the beginning of the stage. Also, some of the piranha plants are showing their roots. 1-3...I don't know what it is, but the level feels too "mechanical." It's unreal to me in its geography, if that makes any sense. Too blocky. Try not to overload the player with too many enemies at once if you can help it. 1-4 looks like a blatant edit of...well, 1-4. Try to avoid that. Also, do be careful of sprite overload as it can frustrate the player. Instead of bogging the player down with many sprites, consider having one or two well-placed enemies instead. 1-Fortress is very boring in certain segments. The mindset seems to be way different from your other levels. Honestly, the previous stages looked more difficult. As the player progresses through a game, the game should become more difficult instead of easier. 1-5 has sprite CHR data issues. In SMB3 Workshop, make sure you take note of which enemies function together correctly. There's also a lot of slowdown here, too. See my comment on 1-4 about that. I also spotted graphical cut-off on your ledges. Do try to fix that. 1-Airship looks great if you're going for kaizo. Stacked cannons look tacky, too...and I don't think it's a good idea to have cannons shooting at Mario from off-screen when Mario is forced to stay so close to the edge and is therefore given insufficient time in which to dodge them. Maybe you should edit Larry's room a bit so that he doesn't get stuck like he does in the video, as it makes the boss able to be easily cheesed by the player. I don't know, man. I'm just not feeling it with your hack. Maybe you should tell us your design philosophy? Is this hack serious? A joke? Kaizo? Just random messing around in SMB3 Workshop? What exactly constitutes "Nintendo-ish" to you? On a final note, if you're not making a kaizo hack, then you should know that many level design enthusiasts consider it to be very bad design and taste for the author to fail attempts to clear his own creations. I noticed several deaths. If you should ever happen to make another video of this hack or any hack, do your best to clear it as professionally as possible, because if you yourself the creator cannot do it, then how can you expect anyone else to? Consider making this first world easier. ____________________ Back from the beyond. |
| dracmeister |
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Level: 8 Posts: 2/8 EXP: 1640 Next: 547 Since: 12-03-09 Last post: 4873 days Last view: 4439 days |
~Masochism at it's-- I don't know...Posted by Mineyl I tend make levels with some twists I just want to laugh at the player, yes, I did overload enemies at times... A Kaizo? Well, kinda... Kaizo hacks are harder and WILL(though some skilled players wont) require savestates, mine just requires of being very careful. I used savestates since, I kinda' rushed the video. Also the future levels would have some sort of 'no-clue' puzzles. However, it's my first time hacking SMB3... I know that 1-5 has some sprite issues which I'm trying to fix, 1-4 was meant to be a reference to another game... Overall, The hack is mostly about piranha plants, munchers and other plant-like entities, though the bowser minions are just side enemies of the hack. Also, I like pipes... ____________________ *wink* Techie making his mark LOL |
| Mineyl |
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Ninji Level: 35 Posts: 117/243 EXP: 276876 Next: 3060 Since: 09-10-09 From: World 5 Last post: 4278 days Last view: 463 days |
Well, if your hack is designed to be some kind of cruel joke against the player, then it does a good job of that.  I'm just pointing out stuff that will get more people to want to play and like your hack, but if all this was intentional, then all righty.
I've wanted to try similar things, but I always tend to focus myself on my main projects instead. ____________________ Back from the beyond. |
| Quick Curly |
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 Giant Red Paratroopa Level: 77 Posts: 743/1443 EXP: 4172462 Next: 18667 Since: 06-15-08 From: Earth Last post: 22 days Last view: 22 days |
For your first time hacking SMB3, you're on the right track. Like Mineyl was saying though, you can see the original levels in almost every level (1-5 did look different than the original). Make sure you go under the Object menu, highlight Delete All, and select 3-Byte Objects; and then repeat to delete all 4-byte objects and enemies as well. It might be a good idea to write down the original number of bytes (located near the bottom-right corner of the editor; the first number is in hex and the number in brackets is in decimal) and the original number of enemies used so that when you're building your level from scratch to avoid similarities to the originals, you don't exceed those limits and overwrite other object and/or enemy data. You can always exceed the limits for either, but it's best that you keep a log or something in that case of whatever you overwrite so that you don't write to the respective offsets a second time.
Aside from all of that though, I do like your level design ideas, and since I've played SMB3 more than anything else I've ever played the only SMB3 hacks that I ever really relate to Kaizo are Binary's hacks, so don't consider your SMB3 hack all that difficult or anything if that's not your intention. I know everyone won't think twice about disagreeing with me on this point, but your hack does not look like a Kaizo hack to me at all, to be honest. The ship level looks especially fun. Today's Kaizo-like hacks to me would be more like Binary's hacks in which you barely have any platforms to work with, and without precise jumps and a LOT of luck you won't stand a chance. In your levels, there's a fair amount of ground to work with and the jumps for the most part don't require precise timing (aside from seemingly the first part of the Fortress level). Don't be discouraged and keep at it buddy! |
| Mineyl |
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Ninji Level: 35 Posts: 118/243 EXP: 276876 Next: 3060 Since: 09-10-09 From: World 5 Last post: 4278 days Last view: 463 days |
Posted by Quick CurlyWell, just so you know, the reason I likened the design to kaizo is because this is only the first world of this hack. In the case of SMB3, I feel that it's a good idea to let your player go about and collect lots of goodies and extra lives from the toad houses and mini-games before piling on level after level of consistently unforgiving designs. I'd say if one were going to make a fiendishly hard (but still fair) hack, he should start the steep difficulty curve about halfway through the actual game, giving the player adequate time to prepare for the onslaught. ____________________ Back from the beyond. |
| binarycuberoots |
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 Goomba Level: 15 Posts: 21/34 EXP: 14489 Next: 1895 Since: 09-10-09 Last post: 5091 days Last view: 5091 days |
Quick Curly has a lot of good points. That 3-byte/4-byte/enemy deletion technique comes in handy especially in increasing the chance of a level overhaul.
I also like your level designs, especially the palette change for the fortress. One of the main things I look for in an SMB3 hack is if many palette changes have been used. Also take it from Quick since he has played the 2 (finished) hacks from my series. Either way, I learned it's best for one to keep doing what one is best at as far as SMB3 hacks are concerned. It helped motivate me to create the first 2 hacks and then some since there is a 3rd one I'm working on as well. In any case, a good deal of patience with editor issues, different design philosophies from others, and realization and possibly underestimation of the target audience amounts go a long way. I expected... maybe 2 or 3 people or so to play my hacks, but there are more than that on youtube nontheless, so keep doing what you're good at. I have a good feeling that Reuben can expand our potential substantially once it's released. ____________________ I'm back |
| Quick Curly |
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Giant Red Paratroopa Level: 77 Posts: 747/1443 EXP: 4172462 Next: 18667 Since: 06-15-08 From: Earth Last post: 22 days Last view: 22 days |
Posted by MineylI understand what you mean and this seems to be the view of a lot of other players. I guess it's just me then, but when I play a game - or hack - I find challenges to be more fun. As Binary and I even agreed on before: It's not like Bowser kidnapped the Princess for the five hundredth time only to give her back to you extremely easily. You have to work for it! For even World 1 to be held back from its full potential just to give the player an easy start to me would be even more criminal of Bowser!Posted by Quick CurlyWell, just so you know, the reason I likened the design to kaizo is because this is only the first world of this hack. In the case of SMB3, I feel that it's a good idea to let your player go about and collect lots of goodies and extra lives from the toad houses and mini-games before piling on level after level of consistently unforgiving designs. I'd say if one were going to make a fiendishly hard (but still fair) hack, he should start the steep difficulty curve about halfway through the actual game, giving the player adequate time to prepare for the onslaught.  Posted by binarycuberootsYou beat me before I could submit my post man!
Yeah, to go with what Binary is saying, the best way to put it is this: Make your hack; not someone else's. I hate to admit it, but some YouTube comments annoy me when people are nitpicking about the work of some ROM hackers and say something like, "You should do this and this and what is taking so long anyway?!" One actually has to put forth the time and effort to ROM hack before they can completely understand... for the most part, we do this for fun, and other people playing and enjoying the end results is just extra and the benefit of accomplishing what we set out to do. As I've stated many a time, I don't even like my early work like Quick Bros. since I didn't even know how to edit the pointers or anything about object and enemy data, so I don't really expect anyone to ever play that hack, but I'm still surprised about getting seemingly more positive than negative feedback on the hack. Docsigma on YouTube even recently streamed him playing the hack and while watching some of the level designs always ties a knot in my stomach, I realized that the hack is still worth a laugh or two, and that's enough to make my day despite its true crappiness. So yeah, stay motivated and achieve the goal that you set out for you to accomplish, and hopefully everyone else will back you up! There is always something that we can learn, so the only direction one can go is to improvement! |
| Mineyl |
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Ninji Level: 35 Posts: 119/243 EXP: 276876 Next: 3060 Since: 09-10-09 From: World 5 Last post: 4278 days Last view: 463 days |
Make no mistake: I love challenge just as well and I plan to give the player plenty of it; there's simply a line between difficult and unfair, and I try to encourage people to avoid the latter. I don't know what you think of my own hack's difficulty thus far, but my goal is to create one of the most challenging games as possible without someone telling me that I take cheap shots or am downright unfair. 
Oh, and as for the whole "make your hack" thing...I personally agree whole-heartedly, but I also want people to say good things about what I've poured my time and energy into, so I meticulously craft my creations into something both I and the public can enjoy. Binary: I've played several levels of your first hack. I do plan to finish it someday when I can devote more time to the mindless self-torture.  ____________________ Back from the beyond. |
| binarycuberoots |
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Goomba Level: 15 Posts: 22/34 EXP: 14489 Next: 1895 Since: 09-10-09 Last post: 5091 days Last view: 5091 days |
Indeed. I myself am a fan of the latter, I had my fair share of criticisms about cheapness, but I subject myself to my stuff first. That way it is more genuine to know that it is indeed possible.
Thanks Mineyl for showing interest, and best of luck to the creator of this hack. ____________________ I'm back |
| Quick Curly |
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Giant Red Paratroopa Level: 77 Posts: 753/1443 EXP: 4172462 Next: 18667 Since: 06-15-08 From: Earth Last post: 22 days Last view: 22 days |
Posted by MineylI agree that there is a line, but if you stay close to the feel of the original game and have decent level design skills (you've worked on them for some time) then it's pretty difficult to cross it to the unfair side. However, in fact, I actually believe that I might be the one who has a problem with "the line". Because I played the original SMB3 so much growing up, what some people consider the hardest levels in the game I consider too easy for my own liking; and when I'm designing my own custom levels I tend to build levels that I would consider moderately difficult and that those who know every little trick when playing SMB3 like I do would consider only moderately difficult as well, which is why I guess people might have considered Quick Bros. and any other levels that they've seen by me definitely more difficult than the original SMB3; perhaps sometimes even a little unbalanced since you'll come across more difficult than easy levels and never seem to get a break. Obviously I don't deliberately do this to be as evil as possible as with the aforementioned hacks, but I guess it's just the mentality behind my level design and if I try to change it, I'll have nothing. I don't know... there's never been a question that I'm messed up in every way. I feel that you do a great job at achieving your goal in terms of your hack and its level design. I also enjoyed when you gave us a glimpse of your Kaizo side as well. You're capable at doing both very well.
Yeah, I understand what you mean. I guess I might have been referring to the views of some other ROM hackers in that statement, but I was going more for my own as well. I do hope that people enjoy whatever crap that I seem to take forever to do and come out with, but should there be suggestions/instructions to fix graphics that I will obviously mess up and cannot help messing up as I see sometimes with some ROM hackers' previews, I'll not have the skills nor the time and motivation to attempt to fix them since... I cannot help it.  That's sort of drifting away from the level design aspect that we were analyzing, but there seems to be a growing emphasis on graphics design as time goes on as well, though I've personally never cared as much about graphics as different game-play which is why I prefer older games as opposed to newer games. Again, all of this is just me though and I don't want to influence anyone else's views on anything mentioned.Posted by binarycuberootsYour style is more unique than anything as well, and that seems to draw criticism sometimes. At any of those considerable points in your hacks though, the surprisingly overwhelming difficulty in comparison to other hacks is what interests me more in playing them just so that I can say, "HA! I beat it."
Yeah, best of luck, dracmeister. Hope to see what else you come up with!
And now after typing out all of this, I have to go write an exam. Oh boy.  |
| Main - ROM Hacking - Hey! Hey! How's about a ROM Hack with a Random Theme! | New thread | New reply |
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