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04-28-24 04:56 PM |
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| Main - ROM Hacking - Reuben: Not so final (but it's being worked on again) stage. | New thread | New reply |
| copyRIGHThunter |
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 Shyguy Level: 22 Posts: 36/83 EXP: 55542 Next: 2808 Since: 07-21-09 Last post: 4638 days Last view: 4638 days |
Glad to hear it. Along the whole "level metrics" idea, I suggest just 6-ish more...
1-A: NUMBER OF POWER-UPs AVAILABLE ======================= -Totals the number of Bricks, [?] Blocks, and Giant [?] Blocks that contain Super Leaves, Fire Flowers, Tanooki Suits, Hammer Suits, and Frog Suits -EXCLUDES starman blocks 1-B: POWER-UP DISTANCES ======================= -Perhaps returns the maximum, minimum, and average distances from these things. I think it'd be hard to compute diagonal distance/straight line distance, but maybe the X distance/ horizontal distance would not be too bad.... COMMENTS on 1 ======================= These are metrics that help quickly determine difficulty. It shows the number of hits Mario can take, it also shows the minimum he must go without taking damage. These are useful for making sure levels are not too brutal, like Lakitu or Tank levels. It removes a bit of a bias that the creator of a level may have (ie, the creator may think it's easier that it actually is because he knows everything about the level) More importantly, this is especially useful in designs where the completion of a level, or access to a secret exit hinges on a player's ability to retain a power up. (EX World 6-5 and the Racoon Leaf). I anticipate levels that only provide 1 or 2 Power-Ups, and they may have to be retained for a very long distance 2-A: NUMBER OF STARMEN AVAILABLE ======================= Just like 1A, but it counts the Starman and Continuous Starman Blocks. 2-B: STARMEN DISTANCES ======================= Just like 1B, but it does the same thing exclusively for the Starman stuff. COMMENTS on 2 ======================= This stuff is useful for constructing levels like World 6-1,7-3,7-8 to get a rough gauge of how difficult it is to maintain invincibility when it is needed. 3: NUMBER OF ENEMIES (approx) ======================= Obvious, and I think that SMB3:WS had this. For things like the cannonball generators or Bullet Bill generators, they'd count for like.... 3 or something. It seems that in autoscrolling parts, that these things only get a few shots off. 4-A: ENEMY TO POWER-UP RATIO ======================= Another difficulty metric. Totals the stuff in 1-A and compares it to the number of enemies in a level. This could be one of the best "difficulty metrics." Levels like SMB3 W1-1 would have something like 17:3, but levels like W8-Tanks would have something like 105:1... 4-B: ENEMY TO STARMAN RATIO ======================= Maybe? I don't know about this one though.... 5: GROUND TO TOTAL LEVEL DISTANCE RATIO ======================= May be tricky to do, but it can determine what amount of the level is "land" and what amount is "bottomless pits" I think the way this can be done is that the editor check every column of a room for the "land objects" and if any of them appears at lease once, it counts to the total of land. Then it just finds the X distance of the room, and subtracts to find the amount of the level that's a bottomless hole. Also, I suppose, if Lava, spikes, or munchers are places, it automatically counts as a "hole" It would return something like 45% Land, 55% Holes and give the numerical values in tiles.... or something. Maybe replace the word "Holes" with "Hazards" Its essentially another difficulty metric essentially helps determine if there's a lot of holes/jumping involved in a level. This metric could potentially would get thrown off in levels like W1-fortress.... maybe 6: OVERALL LEVEL DIFFICULTY METRIC =========================== After taking all of these metrics, and maybe even more or less or whatever into account, a single difficulty numbe is produced. It would be nice to see all of these from every level in a single window/tab. It may even be cool to see like a series of bar graphs of level to level side by side as they are listed in the game. This could be used with the next metric. The output may look something like this.... 1-1 |||| 1-2 ||||||| 1-3 ||| 1-4 ||||||||| 1-5 |||| 1-6 ||||||| This'd show 1-4 is the most difficult level. Maybe it should be optional, or there should be more 1UPs availible in the run up to it.... .... I cant get it to work here well with plain text, but I think you guys get the idea. Perhaps, also include an override so the hacker can assign his or her own value. This visual thing would be cool though to help make better hackers. 7: 1UPs AVAILIBLE IN GAME (may be difficult) =========================== This'd only count the number of 1UP Bricks, Invisible 1UP bricks, and Giant [?] Blocks with 3, 1UPs. Maybe it could also total the coin metrics and divide by 100. Also, it could add 1UPs for every 3 Goal Cards that are placed in the game. Anyways, it'd produce a similar bar graph thing like the one above. COMMENTS on 6 & 7 =========================== These metrics are more useful to gauge difficult overall for a hack. It can show if there's incongruence from level to level. It can also show a ratio of difficulty to lives available. Maybe if there's a ton more lives available than the games difficulty calls for, users should adjust things accordingly. Also, maybe it'd show where "pinch points" are. Like a series of difficult levels. This could tell users to shift around the levels they created. Like "I made this for World 3, but maybe it should not appear until World 6 because it's a little hard...." This can help build hacks that have gradual difficulty curves (like most/all Mario games) or those that remain consistent (sort of like SchwaWarrior's hack). It may help discourage those terrible Kaizo hacks, or the bad hacks that like give you 10, 3UP moons in SMW. What are those people thinking??????? These tools would be the hacking equivalent to "spell-check" for word documents. This can help us all judge hacks quicker, and help determine if it is even worth playing or not. It'd also help remove the need to review hacks. No more "good hack," someone reviewing would actually say "WHAT specifically is good about the hack" Anyways, just having another "idea explosion"..... Heh, those who've read my posts know I'm "Mr. Ideas"  Also, if you haven't deduced this yet (not like anyone would or that it matters) but I'm studying Accounitng and InfoSystems.
Please let me know what you think. I anticipate that some of these may be a lot more work than they're worth. :-\ PS IDEA.... haha =================== I'm semi-serious about this one. Perhaps, if a hacker puts something like 30 1UPs in a single room. Or no solid surface below the entrance to a room. Or a water block (the surface waves) and a blank tile below it, or puts water that has no wall or other water against it.... positioned like crap, then a dialog could appear when saving... "You are making a crappy hack. Either revise this, or don't release it anywhere." I share your fears that this may go the way of SMW...... ____________________ 
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| Oasiz |
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Newcomer Level: 4 Posts: 1/2 EXP: 223 Next: 56 Since: 02-25-07 From: Helsinki, Finland Last post: 5261 days Last view: 5006 days |
Alright, away from lurking status to post this.
So I wanted to say thank you really much for the editor. I enjoyed designing mario levels back in the 9x days with mario improvement. Then naturally moved to mario workshop when I found out about it. So far I have designed one hill level: http://oasiz.lerppu.net/pic/reuben.png (Unfinished, and some corners inside grass are intentional) Really flexible and neat to use even though it's not still finished yet. I really only have one nitpick / feature request and that is zoom function. Working with a 1920x1200 screen it looks like this: http://oasiz.lerppu.net/pic/reuben2.png I am sure that you had that planned but I'd just like to point out on what it looks like on highres displays. Keep going! |
| DahrkDaiz |
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 Nipper Plant Sandwich Artist Level: 46 Posts: 251/417 EXP: 674572 Next: 37202 Since: 02-22-07 Last post: 3489 days Last view: 3409 days |
Yeah I had attempted a zoom feature at first, there was an odd problem bug with GDI+ when going from smaller to larger graphics that caused the scaling to be a bit off. I'll attempt to put a zoom in anyways because even at 1200x1028 it's kind of hard to tell what tiles you're working with sometimes. |
| Stifu |
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 Cobrat Level: 56 Posts: 295/666 EXP: 1361537 Next: 36639 Since: 02-22-07 Last post: 688 days Last view: 310 days |
Posted by DahrkDaiz I hit a similar problem with my own editor (rounding issues when zooming in/out). I ended up fixing it by simply doing the following to my graphics object: graphics.PixelOffsetMode = PixelOffsetMode.Half; |
| Kawa |
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 CHIKKN NI A BAAZZKIT!!! 80's Cheerilee is best pony Level: 138 Posts: 2675/5344 EXP: 30950419 Next: 712562 Since: 02-20-07 From: The Netherlands Last post: 4500 days Last view: 2635 days |
Posted by StifuHow interesting. Duly noted  ____________________ Wife make lunch - Shampoo Opera - give it a spin Spare some of your free time? <GreyMaria> I walked around the Lake so many goddamn times that my sex drive was brutally murdered Kawa rocks — byuu |
| copyRIGHThunter |
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Shyguy Level: 22 Posts: 37/83 EXP: 55542 Next: 2808 Since: 07-21-09 Last post: 4638 days Last view: 4638 days |
GUI COMMENT: TILE SELECTION PANE
======================================= I've played around with the new release for a while now. I noticed that its difficult to tell which tile you're selecting. Like you don't know what is in the [?] Block or Wood Block you place. I can only tell after they're placed and the show special marking thing is checked. Could you please add different or distinct icons for these in later releases? I imagine you've got something planned. Could you also please add a little space in the bottom middle of the left selection pane that tells you what you have selected? It is hard to distinguish in some cases, like the green diamond box ground in the underground tile set. Also, this may already exist and I'm ignorant to the fact, but is there a way to select and area of the map and do a copy and paste? It is a hassle anytime you want to shift some stuff over a couple of tiles, as you need to redraw it. It could also make building easier, as you'd just build a warp pipe or something once, and then copy & paste it a dozen times. The "draw a box and place all of the selected inside" feature is amazing. I LOVE it! Also, is there a way to delete sprites yet? I couldn't get rid of any of them once I placed one..... SMB3 ENGINE QUESTION ====================================== Finally a question about the SMB3 engine. Using SMB3WS, with no ASM hacking AT ALL, I was able to produce this effect.... but I don't know how...... (it's at 22 seconds on the video) The green room is a modified version of the "faling and rising" spike room that also contained the warp whistle. Somehow, the bottom 2 rows stay frozen. It has to do with that object that controls the rising and falling that also must control the Boss Bass stages.... Anyways, do you know what caused this and how to replicate it? It seemed to be accomplished with only object placement, not ASM in any way. I think I might have changed the scrolling properties, but I don't have a working version of this hack anymore to check  It was corrupted and I lost all of my work (though that shouldn't be a problem with Reuben)
Thanks for reading yet another lengthy post of mine. ____________________
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| DahrkDaiz |
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Nipper Plant Sandwich Artist Level: 46 Posts: 252/417 EXP: 674572 Next: 37202 Since: 02-22-07 Last post: 3489 days Last view: 3409 days |
If you click on Show Special Icons, it shows the icons on the tile selector as well. |
| copyRIGHThunter |
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Shyguy Level: 22 Posts: 38/83 EXP: 55542 Next: 2808 Since: 07-21-09 Last post: 4638 days Last view: 4638 days |
Ah, there it is. How about deleting sprites? :-/ Still not fully functional yet? ____________________
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| Mineyl |
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 Ninji Level: 35 Posts: 88/243 EXP: 276926 Next: 3010 Since: 09-10-09 From: World 5 Last post: 4280 days Last view: 465 days |
CRH: The effect in the green room is achieved by modifying the scroll data to "free scrolling" while the object that causes the ceiling to rise and fall is present. Just did a little beta of my own to figure that one out. ____________________ Back from the beyond. |
| copyRIGHThunter |
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Shyguy Level: 22 Posts: 39/83 EXP: 55542 Next: 2808 Since: 07-21-09 Last post: 4638 days Last view: 4638 days |
Cool! Great to hear! I'm kinda wierd - I screw around with a lot of stuff and usually produce some wierdo effects
This effect rocks! I can think of all kinds of designs/ applications for this! Mineyl, do you know anthing about making the layer just sink endlessly? I was screwing around with the vertical rooms like W7-1, W5-2, and W7-6 to achieve "faux vertical autoscrolling" Somehow, I produced something that sank endlessly into a bottomless hole - it seemed like vertical autoscrolling at first! Maybe it's in the scrolling setting...... ____________________
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| DahrkDaiz |
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Nipper Plant Sandwich Artist Level: 46 Posts: 253/417 EXP: 674572 Next: 37202 Since: 02-22-07 Last post: 3489 days Last view: 3409 days |
Quick update:
Release 10/31/09 -Added coin information. -Added the ability to either let the editor decide where to save a level or let you decide. -Fixed sprite deletion -Added 2x zoom support -Added a diagonal line tool (great for slopes) -Added an image export for levels -Changed the set start position a bit to make it clear what to do next -Added a help status bar below the level status bar -Shift + Click on a tile in-level will bring that tile into selection -Shift + DoubleClick will bring up the Map16 editor for the tile |
| Really Snooky |
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 Micro-Goomba Level: 11 Posts: 16/18 EXP: 5737 Next: 248 Since: 11-14-08 Last post: 5255 days Last view: 5248 days |
With this update, I was about to do my 1-1 Bonus Room 1:
Click on it I hope you can add more enemies, and this will make this room much better. ____________________ |
| KP9000 |
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 Boomboom Level: 90 Posts: 1048/1975 EXP: 6954598 Next: 234011 Since: 02-19-07 Last post: 3582 days Last view: 3206 days |
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| Mineyl |
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Ninji Level: 35 Posts: 89/243 EXP: 276926 Next: 3010 Since: 09-10-09 From: World 5 Last post: 4280 days Last view: 465 days |
Posted by CopyRIGHThunter The only auto-scrolling function I can think of like that would be the one used in 5-9. That setting is all kinds of confusing, though (I mean, just look at the way the level is laid out in the editor and then watch how the level appears to scroll during actual gameplay), so this is just a shot in the dark, but it's probably the effect you used. Now you've gone and piqued my curiosity. I'll have to check it out soon. ____________________ Back from the beyond. |
| zbyte |
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 Boomerang Brother Z is Superior! Level: 66 Posts: 504/1016 EXP: 2387643 Next: 74208 Since: 06-10-09 Last post: 4434 days Last view: 2913 days |
Cool. When do you think map support will be in? Can there be an tool that would zone which areas have no animation (like Bowser's Castle)?
In the old editor, it had misc. things like how long a Switch Block lasted, right and left speed of enemies, how long Pirahna Plants stayed up, how long a White Block lasted, etc. I can't save! My long level is gone! ____________________ No quotes found; we apologize for the inconvenience. Commas, question marks, and semicolons are available, though. |
| Kawa |
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CHIKKN NI A BAAZZKIT!!! 80's Cheerilee is best pony Level: 138 Posts: 2676/5344 EXP: 30950419 Next: 712562 Since: 02-20-07 From: The Netherlands Last post: 4500 days Last view: 2635 days |
Or is it? Last I checked it saved automatically... ____________________ Wife make lunch - Shampoo Opera - give it a spin Spare some of your free time? <GreyMaria> I walked around the Lake so many goddamn times that my sex drive was brutally murdered Kawa rocks — byuu |
| DahrkDaiz |
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Nipper Plant Sandwich Artist Level: 46 Posts: 254/417 EXP: 674572 Next: 37202 Since: 02-22-07 Last post: 3489 days Last view: 3409 days |
Short update:
Release 10/31/09a -Fixed an issue where moving a project from the original folders wouldn't allow anything to be loaded. Changed it to use relative directories rather than absolute paths. My bad! (this should fix your issue KP9000) |
| KP9000 |
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Boomboom Level: 90 Posts: 1051/1975 EXP: 6954598 Next: 234011 Since: 02-19-07 Last post: 3582 days Last view: 3206 days |
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| DahrkDaiz |
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Nipper Plant Sandwich Artist Level: 46 Posts: 255/417 EXP: 674572 Next: 37202 Since: 02-22-07 Last post: 3489 days Last view: 3409 days |
I'm starting to seriously consider redoing Reuben in WPF. Before you freak out! Most of the code will stay the same. It's a matter of rebuilding some controls using WPF. Luckily, all the library code will remain the same. If I built it in WPF, would most people be able to use it? The advantages of using WPF is a much more flexible GUI and it will run better if your computer has any kind of video card. |
| binarycuberoots |
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 Goomba Level: 15 Posts: 2/34 EXP: 14492 Next: 1892 Since: 09-10-09 Last post: 5093 days Last view: 5093 days |
Just recently, a couple people brought this SMB3 editor to my attention. I read about it in this thread and it was very intriguing, so I decided to give the Halloween beta release a try yesterday. Mind you, I have gotten very familiar with SMB3 workshop, however I wanted to actually try this out. I had a lot of fun with this new system. In fact, it reminds me of when I used to draw custom SMB3 levels on paper. That's what I liked about this concept. I also like how the levels are in project format instead. I did stumble upon a couple things of concern as I was trying the editor out.
I was looking for certain common sprites, especially the fortress related ones and I couldn't find certain commonly used sprites like thwomps, roto discs, etc. and I'm not sure if that's because it's just a beta version and you're working to get those sprites in the final version, or if I didn't search somewhere where I can find it. Either way I couldn't find those sprites. Another thing of concern was that since the object system is replaced by this tile system, I kind of figured out that each level would take up more memory due to the need to specify each tile as opposed to a couple bytes to specify each object. I also read here that the memory would rack up quickly despite the extension to 1MB for the rom. My first guess was roughly 1 byte per level tile and then some for the level specifics. Even with that stated, I saw that the lvl files that were created are in the tens of kilobytes on my computer. I don't know if that's representative of the amount of memory going into the rom itself, but if it is, then I still underestimated the memory each level takes up. I don't know if this takes up a lot more than the levels with the original level coding, but I hope this doesn't mean fewer levels than in the original game even with rom expansion to 1MB of memory. Another side note, the diagonal line tool sometimes puts down the line and sometimes doesn't put down the line. I remember both of them happening at different times even though I left clicked. Just something to consider. I just made the levels in the projects itself last night, but I'm not sure how it saves to roms or any of that, so I don't know how to test the levels or if I have to finalize my project or something before testing the levels. Those are my thoughts on the editor. I think it's an innovative overhaul of the object system and people like me that used to draw custom SMB3 levels on paper can feel comfortable with this system. I'm not very familiar with WPF, but I'm pretty sure it'll be convenient to use when the final version is released. ____________________ I'm back |
| Main - ROM Hacking - Reuben: Not so final (but it's being worked on again) stage. | New thread | New reply |
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