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MiniCompute
Posted on 02-14-16 07:55 PM Link | Quote | ID: 162771


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Any examples of how quick, since your into rom hacking and modification too deeply I imagined you ran into some programs or utilities ?

Termingamer2-JD
Posted on 02-14-16 08:01 PM Link | Quote | ID: 162772


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Posted by Quick Curly
Depending on which game you're working with and how involved your project is, you don't necessarily have to code anything to ROM hack. Start with something simple, and work your way up to more technical projects.

I think the reason is that I want to work on games like Super Mario Land 2 which hasn't really been hacked at all and would require coding skills. (SML2 is still a great platformer I don't care whether it differed from the main NES games or not.)

The main thing I need to do is understand coding because a) for rom hacking b) for a project by a member on my site who's developing an indie game using C#. c) PHP for maintaining my website and adding new features and mods to the XMB Forum directory.

I also wanted to contribute to the Board Fight 'thing' but hadn't played much of the game at the time - it's a pretty good game, controls are slippery at first though! - again there were no editors, mainly because I didn't want to become 'the one that suggests things for other people and does nothing themselves'.

Also usually I feel unsatisfied with something there and then destroy the file after I keep dying on a level which would normally be easy for everyone else. Referring to SMW there, although while typing this, I had an idea: perhaps expanding on hacks which were never finished/polished to try to complete them (in terms of SMW hacking).

However I'm strictly levels-only, I wouldn't touch map editing, I would probably attempt sprite editing and for music... I could try to do some form of music editing, however.

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MiniCompute
Posted on 02-14-16 09:07 PM Link | Quote | ID: 162773


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Posted by Termingamer2-JD
Posted by Quick Curly
Depending on which game you're working with and how involved your project is, you don't necessarily have to code anything to ROM hack. Start with something simple, and work your way up to more technical projects.

I think the reason is that I want to work on games like Super Mario Land 2 which hasn't really been hacked at all and would require coding skills. (SML2 is still a great platformer I don't care whether it differed from the main NES games or not.)

The main thing I need to do is understand coding because a) for rom hacking b) for a project by a member on my site who's developing an indie game using C#. c) PHP for maintaining my website and adding new features and mods to the XMB Forum directory.

However I'm strictly levels-only, I wouldn't touch map editing, I would probably attempt sprite editing and for music... I could try to do some form of music editing, however.


For the super mario land 2 editing use this to view the hex, tile placement, palette and oam memory.

http://vba-m.com/index.php?ind=downloads&op=entry_view&iden=70

+

http://www.romhacking.net/forum/index.php?topic=7794.0

The guy who did the color hack for super mario land 2 ask him for any info on what he might know about it.

Also make good use of yy-chr especially if you want things in it.
Heres a guide on how to use yy-chr.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=veskzV36AqY

So like curly mentioned find something and stick with it if its not working put on hold. :/

Quick Curly
Posted on 02-14-16 09:18 PM Link | Quote | ID: 162775


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Mike-Tech: I pretty much taught myself everything as I went along. My interest to figure out something that I didn't know and learn more, and of course, my desire to bring level ideas that I could only draw on paper until discovering ROM hacking to life, kept me going.

From my own personal experience and seeing how others have come and gone, with most people not seeing their projects through as a result of impatience and/or not having success as easily and quickly as they had figured the process would be, personal interest and patience are very important key factors when it comes to ROM hacking, or really anything, for that matter. If you're not excited about creating your ROM hack, then it will feel more like work than fun, and it'll show by a lack of completeness and passion from what it becomes.

I don't really know what exactly you mean by "I imagined you ran into some programs or utilities". Would you care to elaborate? If you're asking me if I've never used game-specific utilities, well yes, of course I have. However, as time went on, I became more comfortable with modifying ROM files directly through hex editors and special emulators like FCEUX/FCEUXD; and so, I wouldn't necessarily require visual utilities like SMB3 Workshop to be able to modify everything entirely (and as a result, I was able to use what I refer to as the custom offsets method to effectively design levels completely from scratch and without the original game's levels as a guide, let alone a restriction for the sizes and lengths of the levels that I'm free to design) nor would I necessarily require game-specific level editors to be able to create level hacks of games (and as a result, provided that I can figure out a game's original level format, and commit the time and patience to do so, I can create level hacks of games that no one else has created level hacks of yet, like Balloon Fight and Kickle Cubicle).

However, I didn't get to the point that I'm at today without years of trial and error, and reading lots and lots of forum posts and other informative resources through Acmlm archives, Romhacking.net, Data Crystal, NESDEV, and any other online tutorials that I could find on my own.

When it comes to any individual, they set their own limits and probabilities for success. Whether they're interested, motivated, patient, and willing enough to commit the time and effort, or they have big visions, but lack the self-control, awareness, and initiative to build towards and achieve them.

I've seen a few people want to hack later consoles besides the Nintendo Entertainment System, but experimenting with an earlier system like the NES can perhaps help one build their experience before attempting to tackle something later and likely with less documentation (unless one is leaning towards Super Mario World for SNES, but really, that's one of the most commonly hacked games, and most hacks use resources provided by other people, so that's not really applicable to the process(es) that I'm referring to here). Perhaps that's one of the reasons why I've been able to teach myself over the years and become more and more thoroughly involved with my personal projects, because all I've ever stuck with is the NES, but mainly because that's what I grew up with and really all that I personally have interest in hacking. However, if I wanted to try my hand at hacking something on the SNES or N64, if I managed to ever have all the time to commit to doing so, then I could certainly say that having years of experience with NES ROM hacking could greatly help simplify the transitional process.

Starting with something that's majorly documented - a game that has a lot of posts and other fellow ROM hackers to help you out with your specific questions (though you should read as much as you possibly can on your own from what's already available first) - would make for the best possible introductory project for the new, developing, learning, hopeful ROM hacker.

Super Mario Bros., Super Mario Bros. 3, and select Mega Man games are heavily documented and have many complete utilities that help to modify the game more visually and directly, which should greatly help "simplify the experience for the more inexperienced".

Battle City, Lode Runner, Nuts & Milk, and Wrecking Crew are fairly short, straightforward NES games that have very user-friendly level editing utilities to allow new ROM hackers to jump right in and easily create a bunch of new levels from scratch within a very short period of time, allowing one to effectively complete a ROM hack quickly and efficiently, and begin to develop their skills and familiarity with ROM hacking in general.

Termingamer2-JD: Well, it sounds like you have big, ambitious plans. However, in the case that most of your goals are beyond you currently, then you should perhaps reassess your directives and start with smaller, more easily achievable steps, by which simpler-to-achieve success shall reward more encouragement, motivation, experience, and knowledge to work towards your larger hopes and dreams.

It's easier to come up with ideas than be able to implement them. The "doing" usually takes much more time, effort, and commitment than just brainstorming. Most of the time, when new people realize this, they just immediately call it quits without putting up much of a battle. This is unfortunate, but the truth.

If your updated signature that says, "I don't have any interest in ROM hacking" is anything to go on, I really don't know what more I can say or suggest for you specifically. ROM hacking isn't for everyone. When it comes to programming, well, that isn't for everyone, either. I have no problem outright admitting that I can't write programs for crap. If I had more time, I might be willing to learn, though I don't really have any specific programs that I desire to write for myself either; and again, from personal experience, writing programs for other people is time-consuming, and without personal interest and investment, it's an undesirable task.

The helpful programs and utilities that exist for us in ROM hacking came about from passionate people who had visions, interest, excitement, and who took the time to acquire and develop the knowledge in order to see and bring their visions to life and fruition. A lot of the nontechnical stuff can't be taught. It has to be discovered and experienced on your own.

Yes, most of the games in existence, each individual will likely never get around to playing or have any desire and interest to play on their own. My own personal favourite games will definitely differ from most other people here and everywhere else. So, for potential easier, smaller projects, you might have to look elsewhere from those that I have come up with. There might be easier, smaller games available on the NES or even other systems that you could work with to develop your knowledge and skills. However, again, it might be up to you to look more into it, if you're seriously committed to the idea of trying.

It's fine about Board Fight - it worked out, and the people who passionately enjoy Balloon Fight have enjoyed and appreciated the hack for what it is, from what I've seen and enjoyed myself - though I don't know what your original ideas were when you started the topic. However, starting a topic requesting a ROM hacking team, as proven in the past multiple times, is never a good idea if your primary goal is to get help with your own ideas. The best chance of a ROM hacking team working out successfully is when multiple, highly-skilled individuals come together, each with their own developed abilities and experience, preferably from various previous established, completed projects, in order to build something even bigger and more special than anything that any of them have ever done and achieved before. So, again, this would be something that one would work themselves up towards; however, first, they should start out smaller on their own.

Welcome back to Board 2.

MiniCompute
Posted on 02-14-16 10:09 PM (rev. 3 of 02-14-16 10:12 PM) Link | Quote | ID: 162776


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Posted by Quick Curly


I don't really know what exactly you mean by "I imagined you ran into some programs or utilities". Would you care to elaborate?



Since you have been into rom hacking what utilities and level editors have you used personally or screwing around in for testing over the years ?
Which ones are simple enough for a new beginner like termin ?
Read what termin said, since he had his hand at smw a few times that would be a great place to start from.
If memory serves me right ths has plenty of ideas for level editing questions.
http://www.smwcentral.net/?p=viewthread&t=44360
He could make good use of their site and what he has gained from it he could apply it elsewhere.
Since he wants to learn about the coding from super mario land 2 this is a good place from where to read from.
http://gameboy.mongenel.com/asmschool.html

Not everyone likes nes hacking or coding like you do, samething could be said for the snes and sega genesis.



Termingamer2-JD
Posted on 02-15-16 10:16 AM (rev. 2 of 02-15-16 10:20 AM) Link | Quote | ID: 162777


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NES hacking is nice, but it does have its limits, of course - and there's so many hacks around, too, although I guess the feel of it is nice to make especially when you have applied ASM Hacks into the project.

It's funny how once I come back here, I get annoyed, then return as my 'normal' self, and then go and update my signature after this discussion to 'I'm returning to ROM hacking scenes' basically. I just have some attachment to this community, I guess.

Thanks for the support, I don't know really what to say much more though because I'd need to think more first, I'll also make another point: I want to make a hack which is enjoyable for the community and not just another 'bad' hack. Probably something to do with the fact I've seen too many levels from SMB3 and SMW which look challenging and I can't do such things like that since I don't have that mind.

Mike-Tech: No argument or flamewar intended but I do think QC has read both our posts, just saying. Some people like to wait for a question before replying with what they need.



People's favourite games of course always differ (unless you're in school, then everyone's favourites are GTA V and they think they're expert hackers for downloading a file, but lol that's another story).

Also I normally use a Mac, if anyone's able to test programs using Wine then I'd appreciate that (I don't know how to use Wine or Brew properly). I can still use my normal Windows PC but I prefer my Mac for some stuff.

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MiniCompute
Posted on 02-15-16 03:25 PM Link | Quote | ID: 162780


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Posted by blackhole89
Shush. Stop it, both of you.

Instead, have some good old-fashioned raves.




What is this by chance, just by listening to it for a minute, some of it sounds like it came from ray storm and some psx games.
Though its not my cup of tea, sounds annoying to me.


blackhole89
Posted on 02-15-16 03:48 PM Link | Quote | ID: 162781


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Posted by Mike-Tech
What is this by chance, just by listening to it for a minute, some of it sounds like it came from ray storm and some psx games.
Though its not my cup of tea, sounds annoying to me.

This, judging from 2 seconds of Google.

The first song in the video is actually the worst one, which is not to say it may not still not be your cup of tea even if you were to skip to the middle.

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MiniCompute
Posted on 02-15-16 04:39 PM Link | Quote | ID: 162782


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Posted by blackhole89
Posted by Mike-Tech
What is this by chance, just by listening to it for a minute, some of it sounds like it came from ray storm and some psx games.
Though its not my cup of tea, sounds annoying to me.

This, judging from 2 seconds of Google.

The first song in the video is actually the worst one, which is not to say it may not still not be your cup of tea even if you were to skip to the middle.


Bah still isn't, its just to mixed up, however though it has abit konami psx music to it.
Also by looking at the link you posted I didn't realize this what part of ray series games. o0
No wonder some of it sounded familiar to me.
You should check this out, my cousin had this before back in the old days, love this theme.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6vuZ1kj26k&list=PLAQFRaTnpfkV1xndqBlokMBx2r_LGcwVL&index=4
Game play wise I would rather play r-type delta or gradius 4.




Quick Curly
Posted on 02-18-16 06:45 PM Link | Quote | ID: 162793


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Posted by Mike-Tech
Since you have been into rom hacking what utilities and level editors have you used personally or screwing around in for testing over the years ?
Super Mario Bros. 3

SMB3 Workshop - I've always been able to do everything that I've needed to with this level editor, even back when I was first starting out and didn't really know everything that I was doing and how ROMs had limited space as opposed to unlimited, more similar to computer-based games. Once I determined that I wouldn't be limited by level space constraints by clearing out all of the original levels in the game before building my own, I was able to do even more with this visual utility. With time and patience, one has no limits beyond their own imagination and the entire Object Set ROM banks themselves. There are lots of posts available to read for learning purposes.

SMB3 Map Editor - Everything one could possibly need to edit for the World Maps. I didn't know how to set pipes back when I made my first SMB3 hack, but I learned for later SMB3 projects. There are quite a few posts and tutorials available for this program as well.

I played around with the SMB3 Color Editor and the SMB3 Text Editor when I was only just starting out, but they had their issues (not trying to be critical or anything here), since not all the palettes were edited to whichever colors one chose for Mario and Luigi, and sometimes, text wouldn't save, and I honestly can't remember how longer text strings were dealt with when using the program. Nowadays, I do all palette and text modifications directly in FCEUX/FCEUXD so that I can see exactly how everything is changing in real time and fitting into the ROM space that is available.

I also tried out the Super Mario Bros. 3 TSA Editor back when I was only just starting out to see what it was for, since I didn't know enough yet to know its purpose, but it didn't work on my home computer. When I was still going to college, I downloaded it on a college computer and checked it out, and it was helpful for changing which graphical tiles visually represent the blocks in the game. Back then, I didn't have any purpose for this, since I wasn't making such thorough modifications yet (nor did I have any way that I could benefit from making such changes at the time), but for later SMB3 hacks, I have made a few such modifications directly through emulator hex editors as well, since the relevant bytes are easily discovered at the beginning of each Object Set ROM bank, once someone knows what they're looking for.

Wrecking Crew

My second hack was of another game that I would play a lot while growing up, Wrecking Crew for the NES. There was an in-game level editor which would allow you to make up to 4 custom levels to play in a row. The levels are all fixed to one size in this game, making it a fairly easy and quick process to place objects and enemies in the Demolition level editing utility to build a hack within a very short period of time. I made my own hack within 3 days, but I also had drawn out levels that I came up with in the in-game level editor over the course of many years, so I had a lot of level designs already made so that all I had to do was build them in the program without having to come up with them on the spot beforehand. Still, was this hack well refined? Unfortunately, not really. It was more just a straight forward level hack, although I believe there ended up being at least one level that can't actually be cleared. Nonetheless, similar to every new project, there were new skills and techniques to learn to carry over to future projects.

Fire ‘N Ice

IceEdit - Out of interest, I actually played around with this awesome level editor for the awesome NES game, Fire ‘N Ice. It's designed by hukka, the same program designer who created SMB3 Workshop. Unfortunately, I never completed a hack of the game - there are actually a lot of levels in the original game to match up to - but it would seem that even though I recall that Trax also has plans to eventually complete a hack of this game, to this day, no one has yet. Would it make for a good, reasonable first project for a beginner, though? Maybe not.

Nuts & Milk

Nuts & Milk Editor - Around 2009, I started to collaborate with Googie on some unfinished projects, starting with a Nuts & Milk hack. Basically, I just had to edit the majority of the remaining levels, as all of the graphics were already edited. Did I have to touch the music and sound effects? Probably not, but 99% of my music listening was Buckethead at the time, and I was heavily influenced by insanity. So, I didn't really care. To this day, I still enjoy hearing the death sound, and watching Static's Gary's Nuts play-through, I'm mesmerized by the movement of the main player sprite as he navigates through and completes every single zone. The "music" leaves me in a hypnotic-like state long after Gary has finished his "journey". I also read a comment posted somewhere a while ago from a person who believed that this hack was actually a pirate game, which was pretty cool.

Battle City

Quarrel - Similar to Nuts & Milk, the levels are all the same fixed size in Battle City, one screen, making designs fairly simple to come by and manage. This utility is straight forward. Once again, Googie had already modified all of the graphics in the hack, so I just had to design the remaining levels for it. Again, I emphasize, pretty straight forward. A potential easy learning experience.

Those are pretty much all the level editors that I've used and/or "screwed around in" over time.
For hex editors, I've liked using WindHex32, HxD, and FCEUX/FCEUXD.
For graphics editors, I used YY-CHR early on when I first started out, but my go-to program anymore is always Tile Layer Pro.
For patching, I used to use the main resource that everyone else uses, Lunar IPS. However, when dealing with expanded ROMs, an alternative was necessary, and now I personally prefer beat, the BPS patching format. I also recently download and used xdelta UI simply to play the Stoner Bros. hack, and its interface and formula are the same as the other two patching formats that I've used. Each has its purpose, but they're all easy to figure out and take advantage of.
Posted by Mike-Tech
Which ones are simple enough for a new beginner like termin ?
That's what I tried to answer in my previous post. Anything can be learned, but to learn anything, it takes time. So no matter what, you, Termingamer2-JD, and whoever else will have to take the time to learn before you can do. If anyone isn't patient enough to learn first, then they should probably just stop playing around with the idea of ever completing and releasing any ROM hacks. I'm not trying to be harsh here, but all I've seen for however many months now around here is talk. Talking is exhausting and nothing is even getting done...
Posted by Mike-Tech
Read what termin said, since he had his hand at smw a few times that would be a great place to start from.
Like in the past, what leads you to conclude that I haven't read anything in anyone's posts? I read everything in full before I reply to each point and don't seemingly ignore or disregard the rest. I don't mean any of that in an offensive or critical manner either. It's just this isn't the first time that you've told me to "read" something that I either already responded to or most likely had already noticed and referred to in response. The question is, do you notice that as a fact in any case?

Except SNES and SMW are so much more involved, even though it's thoroughly documented, since it's so commonly hacked, so much has already been accomplished in terms of hacks, which leads SMW hackers and players to all have such high expectations for what "should" be made for a hack, so it isn't necessarily such a great place to start for someone who still has to learn everything in general.

Is it possible, however? Yes, of course. Anything is possible. Will knowing the game inside and out on a playing level help with learning how to hack it and simplifying the process? Sure. The same applies to any game. People make ROM hacks of games that they grew up with and are most passionate about bringing new life, adventures, and experiences to. Will a lot of time, effort, and personal investment be required? Most certainly. Always expect as such, and if the thought is one that you would rather avoid or believe isn't the truth, then save yourself the time, frustration and heartbreak by coming to the definitive conclusion to back out sooner rather than later.
Posted by Mike-Tech
Not everyone likes nes hacking or coding like you do, samething could be said for the snes and sega genesis.
I fully realize and acknowledge that. I did touch upon that in my post, like I have in the past. I was just asked for suggestions, so that's merely all I provided. If someone doesn't want to hear the answers, then they shouldn't ask the questions. I never try to authorize and pressure people into working on something that they're not interested in themselves (like NES or a game that they've never even heard of, let alone aren't familiar with). However, at the same time, when someone expresses interest in working on something but doesn't take any initiative, then that's on them; and they can talk and talk, but until they actually bother to focus more on working on it rather than just talking about doing something that they'll never even start, all they're doing is spinning around in circles, and no progress will ever be made, as it has already been shown in such relative cases.
Posted by Termingamer2-JD
NES hacking is nice, but it does have its limits, of course - and there's so many hacks around, too, although I guess the feel of it is nice to make especially when you have applied ASM Hacks into the project.
When you're still only just starting out and learning though, it's certainly easier to manage instead of trying to dive into a gigantic pool for the first time without learning how to swim first, and only just managing to stay surfaced without actually making any progress or developments. I can only make suggestions and help with what I know. If you're looking for knowledge and skills for programming, SNES, N64, Game Boy Advance, or building Rube Goldberg machines, then Google is your friend. There is almost always certainly another individual or group of people somewhere in existence who can help you with your specific needs. However, again, the same circumstances remain the same; you either take the initiative, or you'll never get anywhere beyond just always talking about doing something.

Also, while people are always welcome to ask questions to help learn, it's highly recommended that people do their research first, to discover and learn from the questions that have already been asked, so that you aren't taking time that could be better spent helping with providing information that isn't already available or as simple to come by.

When asking questions, be as specific and detailed as possible. Explain exactly what you are trying to accomplish. Clearly review what you have already tried to do. Provide words and pictures to help guide everyone else through your specific process, so that hopefully someone can figure out the steps and points in time where you need to do something else specific instead. This is part of how progress is made.

Stay committed to fewer projects rather than jumping between a bunch of random potential ideas and programs that happen to coincide with the board's limited recent activity. It's a way to make it seem like you're always working on something, while in reality, nothing is being worked on and no progress will ever be made, let alone completed.
Posted by Termingamer2-JD
It's funny how once I come back here, I get annoyed, then return as my 'normal' self, and then go and update my signature after this discussion to 'I'm returning to ROM hacking scenes' basically. I just have some attachment to this community, I guess.
That's great, and hopefully things will be more motivating for you this time, and things can work out for everyone. I'm sure you're familiar enough with everyone here now to know who is capable of being able to help you out with what. For anything else you have questions about, you might have to refer to documentation and tutorials discovered through means of personal time and research, and/or trial and error on your own. Just try things out. Take the time to learn first before you try to do, become discouraged, and then spend days no longer having the desire and interest to continue trying and testing things out as a result of lost excitement and investment. It might be difficult at times, but anything can be managed if you really want it to be. Though this isn't the first time I'm saying this, so I don't know if anything that I'm ever saying really has any meaning or will ever amount to anything.
Posted by Termingamer2-JD
Thanks for the support, I don't know really what to say much more though because I'd need to think more first, I'll also make another point: I want to make a hack which is enjoyable for the community and not just another 'bad' hack. Probably something to do with the fact I've seen too many levels from SMB3 and SMW which look challenging and I can't do such things like that since I don't have that mind.
Just do what you can do. It doesn't necessarily have to be considered a "bad" hack. Any hack out there has redeeming qualities, and for someone like me (though I'm more in the minority, it seems), there is more focus on the positive and what a hack is, rather than the negative and what a hack could or "should" be as defined by someone else who never even lifts a finger.

Take the ROM hacking process one step at a time. Perhaps your lack of success is because of your overambitious goals and personally set, restricted time frame. You can't produce the holy grail of ROM hacks without acknowledging and accepting that you must invest the time, effort and resources. It doesn't make itself, and you can't allow yourself to become so easily discouraged and resort to quitting so immediately if you expect to succeed.

Again, just do what you can do. Start small. There's nothing wrong with it. Don't focus on what other people will think. Make the hack that you want to make. Don't make someone else's hack. Don't expect your first hack to be everything that you envision. Be okay with that. Everyone starts out somewhere. I don't really know what more to say. This will either make a difference or it won't. Either way, it's ultimately up to you.

Take each completed and/or attempted ROM hack as a learning experience for the next one. No one ever really stops learning. So try not to set such overly high, unattainable expectations for yourself immediately from the start, or of course you're most likely not going to get anywhere and just end up having to continuously fight off feelings of wanting to quit before you even truly start and get anywhere. I've had moments of discouragement over time myself. However, my passion and desire to continue ROM hacking is why I'm still here. Reflect upon yourself and determine whether or not you have a true passion for ROM hacking. If so, which game(s) are you most passionate about? If they're more involved projects, perhaps set your favourite game(s) as a personal goal for what you hope and aim to work up towards, and start out smaller. Look around. Research some smaller games. Start there instead. Develop your skills more easily. While you might not necessarily prefer NES over some other systems, based on the hacks and homebrews that have been produced and the resources that are available for this console specifically, there's an argument to be made that you can accomplish so much from it alone.
Posted by Termingamer2-JD
Mike-Tech: No argument or flamewar intended but I do think QC has read both our posts, just saying. Some people like to wait for a question before replying with what they need.
Yes. I spend way too much time investing in these posts.
Posted by Termingamer2-JD
People's favourite games of course always differ (unless you're in school, then everyone's favourites are GTA V and they think they're expert hackers for downloading a file, but lol that's another story).
Different generations have different personal priorities, interests, and self-discipline. Everyone grows up in different environments. Thankfully, I believe my personal patience and commitment levels were developed and made possible as a result of me not growing up with a cell phone to distract me throughout the entire day, and the like. Sure, I spent a large amount of my time and childhood playing video games, but ultimately, that's what I'm personally interested in, and that's what I focus on through ROM hacking. So, if someone wants to ROM hack, or at least expresses the interest that they would like to ROM hack, but would rather spend the day watching TV, playing video games rather than making them, playing sports, building things, forming an online personality and/or community, photography, etc. then they need to reevaluate what they would truly wish to focus on, based on what they already invest their time and effort in, and only they can do that for themselves. You know yourself the best. So, again, I don't really know what more I can say or add that's meaningful or relevant.
Posted by Termingamer2-JD
Also I normally use a Mac, if anyone's able to test programs using Wine then I'd appreciate that (I don't know how to use Wine or Brew properly). I can still use my normal Windows PC but I prefer my Mac for some stuff.
Well, as you have probably found out for yourself already, the most commonly used and beneficial ROM hacking utilities are available for Windows. If you have the benefit of owning both a PC and Mac, make use of what you have access to. Why would you rather use your Mac? Are your reasons really relevant to ROM hacking as a whole? If you're concerned about spying like it's been brought up in this thread in the past, just ROM hack with the PC not connected to the Internet. That won't make a difference? Well, what makes you think that anything you do on the PC will make a difference, unless you're doing something that you shouldn't be doing? Either way, I feel like more effort is being put into excuses than the process of making progress. Again, not trying to be harsh by anything that I've been saying anywhere in this post, despite other things that were said and directed towards me in the past. However, I'm just making personal observations, and any given individual can only be helped and will only be as successful as what they're willing to do and invest in. As always, best of luck. You have resources available in the form of people, places, and programs. The rest is up to you.

MiniCompute
Posted on 02-18-16 08:07 PM Link | Quote | ID: 162796


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Pretty touchy in your last post eh quick, long as he gets what he needs or finds in the information.
I don't mind which source or person gives it, I don't have time to read all of what you posted.

Quick Curly
Posted on 02-19-16 02:08 AM Link | Quote | ID: 162799


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Posted by Mike-Tech
Pretty touchy in your last post eh quick, long as he gets what he needs or finds in the information.
Posted by Quick Curly
I was just asked for suggestions, so that's merely all I provided.
Posted by Mike-Tech
I don't mind which source or person gives it, I don't have time to read all of what you posted.
Posted by Quick Curly
If someone doesn't want to hear the answers, then they shouldn't ask the questions.
Posted by Quick Curly
I read everything in full before I reply to each point and don't seemingly ignore or disregard the rest.
How do you figure I was "touchy" if you didn't even read my post? Not to mention, a good half of it was responding to questions that you asked, whether for yourself or for others in question, but apparently didn't truly want or care for the answers to. If anything, this is why I have every right to be touchy. I put hours worth into my post. Did you even put seconds into yours? Basically, you made a post in response to declare that you don't have "time" to read the post that you're replying to. Hmm, I would reckon that that qualifies as spam and an FAQ violation. Haven't you already been warned more times than you've kept count?

What gets me is how my post anticipated and predicted exactly to a tee what you would do, and you did it. You're so predictable. Your lack of commitment to posting in full alone is why you will never complete a ROM hack successfully. This carries over to a large percentage of people hanging around ROM hacking communities today, because they lack the patience and self-discipline to truly commit to actual projects. However, it certainly doesn't stop them from being overly critical on everyone else's progress.

Don't get me wrong. You have contributed to the community and the board overall at times. In fact, I've tried multiple instances to keep giving you chances to prove me wrong, and was trying to encourage other staff opinions that you were turning over a new leaf and weren't so in the wrong as your recent record has been reflecting, when the overall course of action is that you should have been banned a long time and multiple violations ago. However, this seriously takes the cake for me. As far as I'm concerned, your tendencies to always post as though you're above everyone else and have control around here above other active members, let alone human beings in general (human beings should be considered equal, so treat others how you want to be treated, and you get what you give) have continuously established for all of us that we've given you too much special consideration. No more from me.

My vote is that you should receive at least a temporary ban. You've been warned more than enough times now. The other active staff members and/or administrators can make considerations and take actions as they feel are necessary. However, provided and given the clear evidence at hand, I don't believe that my personal take on this whole situation is "touchy" or off base.

All I've ever tried to do is help encourage people and their projects around here, and provide whatever information and resources that I possibly can from my own personal experiences; and all you ever do the majority of the time anymore is act as though your posts trump all and that I and everyone else as individuals should follow your lead. Like I asked back when you were one of those people concluding that the collaborative hack topic should be closed, what have you contributed to the board as alternative features and promotions to promote further activity and community involvement, other than all of these instances of drama? You just keep shutting down everything else.

I've apologized to you in the past. You owe me and everyone else an apology. Seriously. Your post was completely disregarding, rude and inconsiderate, and you accused me of the same thing, when all I was pointing out in any instance is how initiative to accomplish anything relies on the individual in question, and how easy it is to talk about progress and action being taken to act as though it's work in motion.

MiniCompute
Posted on 02-19-16 02:51 AM Link | Quote | ID: 162801


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Whatever man I'm not the one who brought this up again 4 days later. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Now this is worth something to talk about, how on earh does a AI not pass 8th grade science ?
I bet you 5 dollars it got A+ in math, algebra and geometry, however it has kind of weary of what computers can and cannot do on their own.
If it were me, I rather not have machine do everything for us and decide, it has no real soul.

http://www.bostoncommons.net/most-advanced-ai-cant-pass-8th-grade-science-test/

blackhole89
Posted on 02-19-16 07:07 AM (rev. 2 of 02-19-16 07:09 AM) Link | Quote | ID: 162803


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Okay, Mike-Tech, that's quite enough from you. You keep picking fights and being somewhere between rude and incoherent in spite of repeated warnings. In this instance, too, surely you must have realised that the posts you were making were well in the territory that you were warned against straying into again.

Mankind ill needs a saviour such as you.

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Insectduel
Posted on 02-20-16 12:33 AM Link | Quote | ID: 162808


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Posted by Mike-Tech
Since you have been into rom hacking what utilities and level editors have you used personally or screwing around in for testing over the years ?


Super Mario Bros. 3 for Super Mario All-Stars via SMB3 Workshop & Translhextion. I became more experienced with ASM but not the same as Dahrkdaiz's or Southbird's elite level. It's fun making levels and progress my imagination.

Termingamer2-JD
Posted on 02-20-16 11:16 AM Link | Quote | ID: 162812


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Thanks QC!

I don't know what to say to most of your post though because although I read the whole thing I haven't really got the time to reply at the moment, also thanks for the other tips too.

For the Mac thing: I use a Mac for most things especially which of relates to the Internet, because programs don't need .NET Framework 2.367938382.6372.3 or whatever to run. I also have Xubuntu which actually seems to run Wine properly, my Mac doesn't work with Wine at all.

Speaking of which I'm going to post my desktops in the relative thread if anyone wants to see them I'm not sure if you'll like them or not (I have a good eye for good game backgrounds for some reason).

Of ROM hacking motivation: I think it's killed because I tried to attempt MKDS hacking around mid-2010 (so I would have been around eight) and none of the tools worked for me at the time even when you used the same procedures, in fact I returned to it in 2012, planning a new hack but that never worked after a few builds because it crashed after I did something (although another thing which was VERY odd occurred in one of the builds).

However that could be too hard as you say I'm going to do NES stuff especially considering Board 2 is mostly NES, we don't have such strict rules for hacks AFAIK unlike more dedicated websites and such. I'll take your suggestion and probably do something like SMB3. ROM hacking in fact does get me to play more games I never played Balloon Fight before you suggested to do a hack of it for example.

~ Cammygirl192

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hakarl
Posted on 02-20-16 02:21 PM Link | Quote | ID: 162819


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so you're finally done with IE6?

Termingamer2-JD
Posted on 02-20-16 02:52 PM Link | Quote | ID: 162820


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Posted by hakarl
so you're finally done with IE6?

I haven't had XP for a while, hakarl, since it thrust-kicked the computer
Now it's firefox/safari

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Quick Curly
Posted on 02-21-16 05:04 PM Link | Quote | ID: 162836


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Termingamer2-JD: It seems that you considered and covered the main intention(s) of my post within your own reply. Most of the early part of my post was just listing all of the utilities that I've ever used over the years, as I was asked about, so there's not really much that needs to be said about each specific part anyways. Thanks, though. You're welcome for the details. I try.

It sounds like that was a considerably large project for a young age. I can understand why it would have been greatly demotivating. I also remember your personal interest is more directed towards later games like Donkey Kong and Mario Kart which came after NES, but one has to understand that later generation games will be more involved with trying to hack them, and there's a possibility that a more recent game hasn't even been hacked by others yet, making it a blind endeavor for the most part. On top of that, someone younger and who only just learns about ROM hacking as a whole and being able to change a game to make it their own personal new experience likely hasn't already begun to prepare themselves for the overall knowledge and work necessary and involved in ROM hacking, and then once they find out, they ultimately decide, "Forget it. It's not worth the time or effort". Even though it's easy to envision something different and likely 99.9% of gamers do, the technical processes involved likely weed out more than half of that group from ever even starting, let alone being successful. More so with today's generation with even less of an attention span, from my own personal experiences.

It's not like I've made these accusations from nonexistent statistics or unfair, one-sided judgements, either. Back in 2009-2010, there were more newly registered members here on Board 2 who all wanted to hack the NES version of Super Mario Bros. 3 specifically, and seemingly expressed so much interest in doing so. I even helped at least 5 individuals directly through Skype, because they were at least around that long enough. However, statistically speaking, 0% of all these users ever finished or produced their envisioned ROM hack.

So, it's not like I'm a negative person who always immediately comes to the conclusion that someone new whose first and only post expresses interest in a project for a game that I've never even heard of but can at least recognize it's for a later system will never, ever get anywhere with it. Unfortunately, it's just the more likely case that they're trying to bite off more than they can chew. With that said, I don't make such a comment about what work someone can come up with, because they're actually making an effort. I'm more a positive person and always try to be, but anymore, I also pick my battles. For all the time that I spent in the past trying to help people only for the process to be either me doing everything for them anyway and/or they ended up quitting in the end and they've never returned, all I feel that I can really offer anymore is a sense of direction from the perspective of a ROM hacker who has been doing this on-and-off for nearly a decade. There are even people who have been ROM hacking for more than two decades. Imagine how much more difficult it would have been for them back then. Those people were determined. The irony is, as easier as it is nowadays for people to ROM hack, they're still less successful because they still want more of the process eliminated for themselves and handled by someone else so they only have to do what feels fun. Well, there's fun with seeing your project coming together, and ultimately, satisfaction and great joy when your project is finally completed, and you reflect upon all the work that went into it, and how all of it was beneficial and meaningful.

That's awesome that you're considering NES games as a possibility, even if just for learning purposes and intentions. However, just to establish, I'm not trying to force or dictate that you have to hack NES. I just feel that there are small NES games that might be easier to hack and more easier to manage to help you learn some knowledge and skills in the beginning, so that you aren't trying to hack SNES, Genesis, Game Boy Color, N64, etc. games that are large by comparison and you don't really know where to start, let alone how things will overall come together.

Yes, I stick with NES, but it's also what I'm personally most interested in, and the games that I hack have strong connections to childhood memories of playing through the originals, and dreams of new level designs for them so that I could enjoy playing through them again for the very first time. I understand that you have different interests and I support that for everyone. However, most of the time, the process for hacking those games in question is even more complicated, especially without any previous experience. To me, the time and effort committed to using a much simpler game with a lot of utilities and documentation at one's disposal to learn some basics first is more than worth it if it means that it'll help you with the developmental progress and success of your own personal pursuits.

With all that said, if you decide on SMB3, at least I would have be able to help you with the basics, since I've already gone through them myself. However, there's a chance that the game might still be an overwhelming process to learn from. I don't know how well you know the game on a playing level, and how much you've already played it. I can tell you, when I first tried using SMB3 Workshop, even knowing the original game inside and out, I still didn't get everything right away. My first significant obstacle was having to discover that a ROM file has limited space to work with, unlike a game designed with a program like Game Maker 7, which I actually found and tried to play around with first before ROM hacking. So, now whenever a new SMB3 hacker posts about a problem that after they edited 1-6, their 1-4 completely screwed up, I can confirm from my own personal experience that it's because the original number of objects and/or enemies was/were exceeded, and cut into another level's data. However, that's why I clear all of the original levels out now, but that's from having developed my knowledge and awareness of what's going on with ROM files on a more intimately "technical" level, and that's perhaps a bit more advanced for beginning steps. However, more possibilities are opened from the "custom offsets" method.

You could decide on Super Mario Bros. 3, though there are 8 original worlds packed full of levels, world maps, instances of text, a title screen, and other little dealings mixed in that are generally modified for a complete ROM hack, even for one that primarily focuses on level editing. There are some shorter, complete SMB3 hacks that only edit 1 or 2 worlds though, which you could definitely do to shorten the process and still come up with something complete for a beginning project, but just know that it could still take a bit of time and effort. There are still some shorter games that might be less involved like what I mentioned earlier if you're anxious to get started on your own personal projects and interests, but the main focus and intention of hacking something else before them is to learn as much as you possibly can so that you can manage those more involved projects on your own; because if you have limited documentation, fewer resources, and no one else who you can receive help and direction from for the games that you want to hack instead, then it'll be up to you to figure things out on your own, and without personal research and awareness, your ROM hacking experience might not change from what it's already been so far.

Termingamer2-JD
Posted on 02-26-16 05:21 PM Link | Quote | ID: 162855


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I can't really say much of a reply because that post is far too long, although I've read and understood the whole thing, it's not easy for me to reply to extremely long posts at all, even if I try to break them down.

I might consider trying to find ways of motivation, I saw on SMWcentral it's not great to spend a lot of time doing one thing, I could try just making really small contributions to build it up (even if it takes several years; it means it would be very polished). I'm only considering making a one-world hack or such, though, because I'm not able to test the games, because regarding SMB3, I never actually got past mid-World 3 since the controls are so slippery in that game, add the fact I lost a lot of skill and haven't regained it very much, doesn't help me when trying to make difficult or elaborate levels.

You're also one of the more optimistic people I've seen in a board too.

It's just... I have a tendency to do a project for a few weeks or so very intensely, and then put the project on hold for a long time, before coming back to it or simply abandoning it due to the fact my mind changes too much about things. My mind is just "7.8/10 too much strange" perhaps ...

(this subject needs to be in a new thread or the posts put in a thread in the museum, it seems too important to just leave it here)

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