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Xeruss
Posted on 03-25-09 07:54 PM (rev. 2 of 03-25-09 07:56 PM) Link | Quote | ID: 103903


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Read here.

What's your take on this? I think it'll be interesting when everyone can play even the most high-end games, and fantastic graphics become a requirement of all newly produced games.

EDIT: Now that I think about it though, it makes me feel kinda cheated that I payed through the nose for this computer.
Also, someone should sign up for the beta...

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blackhole89
Posted on 03-25-09 08:01 PM Link | Quote | ID: 103904


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Posted by Xeruss
and fantastic graphics become a requirement of all newly produced games.

Isn't that what the gaming industry has convinced itself of and has been trying to make us believe since the early nineties? It's all basically a single LA LA LA CAN'T HEAR YOU hymn of denial against how a single dedicated basement dweller can outperform their $n million budgets in a couple of years when it comes to producing something that is actually fun.

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Xeruss
Posted on 03-25-09 08:03 PM Link | Quote | ID: 103905


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All I'm saying is that if this sort of technology becomes the way we play games, there can be some sort of standard for graphics because there won't be the worry that a computer can't handle it. They'll be solely at the mercy of whatever the onlive servers are running for hardware.

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Kawa
Posted on 03-25-09 08:06 PM Link | Quote | ID: 103906


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See, that's why I like the Wii. Its graphics are barely better than the Gamecube that came before it, but the innovative controls make for actually fun games.

Just try to imagine what, say, Wario Ware Smooth Moves would be like on the 360. Beautiful, if not very brown... and all the gimmicky mini games would be just below WW Twisted's level.

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blackhole89
Posted on 03-25-09 08:10 PM Link | Quote | ID: 103907


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I don't think all but a narrow number of titles each year - which are mostly FPSes made for a handful of people who like to brag with what their computers can run - get stuck at the feasible hardware capability limit out of all of them. No matter how you look at it, this is going to require extremely broadbanded, low-latency connections and ultimately will cause more problems than it solves; the likelihood of this obsoleting powerful graphical hardware and locally-run games and becoming anything more than a niche entertainment bound for a commercial nosedive is considerably low as I see it.

Higher graphical capabilities are hardly a functional selling point at all anymore anyway, as the statistics of the latest round of console wars demonstrate effectively.

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Xeruss
Posted on 03-25-09 08:16 PM Link | Quote | ID: 103908


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I really don't want to see it replace the reliability of owning your own high-end hardware either, or even slow the production of such, but if they can manage a way to make the system run efficiently and without substantial flaws, it would give use to some of the otherwise useless Pentium II computers I have sitting around...

I could see this becoming a somewhat narrow market of its own for people who want to play some nicer games, don't mind paying big for internet service, and don't wish to pay for the expensive hardware. :/

Also, I take it Wii is winning the console wars? I don't really keep tabs on it.

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Kawa
Posted on 03-25-09 08:18 PM Link | Quote | ID: 103909


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Posted by Xeruss
Also, I take it Wii is winning the console wars? I don't really keep tabs on it.
It and the DS still print money

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blackhole89
Posted on 03-25-09 08:19 PM Link | Quote | ID: 103910


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Posted by Xeruss
I could see this becoming a somewhat narrow market of its own for people who want to play some nicer games

Nicer-looking ones, you mean. If anything, the games are going to be worse because more of the budget will be allocated for pointless polygon polishing.


Also, I take it Wii is winning the console wars? I don't really keep tabs on it.

By a decent margin, last I checked. But then, I'm not really keeping tabs on it either.

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Xeruss
Posted on 03-25-09 08:27 PM Link | Quote | ID: 103911


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Posted by blackhole89
Posted by Xeruss
I could see this becoming a somewhat narrow market of its own for people who want to play some nicer games

Nicer-looking ones, you mean. If anything, the games are going to be worse because more of the budget will be allocated for pointless polygon polishing.


Eh, if it appeases the people who want to feel like they own the high-end hardware, I'd say it's smart in a marketable sense. If nothing else though, it should be good for the typical sports games EA cranks out, it's hard to screw up the gameplay on those, and they're basically graphical and stylistic updates from year to year.

What I'm still eager to see is how they'd presume to charge for the games. If they intend to run a monthly fee or charge per game (or per play for that matter), could make most of the difference in how the general public will accept it.

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Trax
Posted on 03-25-09 09:11 PM Link | Quote | ID: 103912


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I didn't read everything thoroughly, nor did I watch the movies, but I still feel it's physically impossible to make a game that runs smooth with all the settings boosted to the max on any computer. If I understand correctly (and it's possible I don't), they are trying to convince us that their ultra-fast connection (price, anyone?) can be faster than the micrometric connection between my processor and graphics card on my computer's motherboard at home? Although it's not super far from impossible, that's still stretching...

I think the core concept (again, correct me if needed) is that their ultra-powerful servers (clusters, probably) do all the calculations and graphics processing, and you only have to worry about displaying the resulting image and processing input every frame...

Xeruss
Posted on 03-25-09 09:16 PM Link | Quote | ID: 103913


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Posted by Trax
I think the core concept (again, correct me if needed) is that their ultra-powerful servers (clusters, probably) do all the calculations and graphics processing, and you only have to worry about displaying the resulting image and processing input every frame...


Yeah that's basically it. It sounds like a good idea though.

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Omi
Posted on 03-25-09 09:20 PM Link | Quote | ID: 103915


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I say the Xbox 360 is leading the console wars, just Wii has been bouncing back with WiiFit.


If anything, the games are going to be worse because more of the budget will be allocated for pointless polygon polishing.



You make it sound like the more money put into polishing up a game graphically means that the game will come out bad. If you look at the Xbox / PS3 Top rated games, you'll see they have outstanding graphics and great gameplay.


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Trax
Posted on 03-25-09 09:32 PM Link | Quote | ID: 103917


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It's a clever concept, although not THAT new, it's just that those guys at the website are simply pushing the envelope as far as they can, in terms of marketing. Anyway, that put aside, basic math makes me sceptic quite a little. I took a screenshot of my desktop, without worrying about real-world representativity in a gaming environment, it's just for the test. With a resolution of 1024 x 768, I get a PNG of 908 KB.

908 KB x 30 FPS = 27240 KB/s = 26,6016 MB/s = 212,8125 Mbit/s
908 KB X 60 FPS = 54480 KB/s = 53,2031 MB/s = 425,625 Mbit/s

I consider my connection quite fast for normal house cable Internet, and I get a theoretical maximum of 7.5 Mbit/s in download. Looks quite far from what is remotely possible. So what's the catch?


RT-55J
Posted on 03-25-09 09:51 PM Link | Quote | ID: 103924

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I see three main problems with this: latency, bandwidth, server maintenance. The first will, strictly speaking, can only be minimalized, not eliminated (unless someone is able to break the light barrier). The latter two problems can theoretically be solved, but would require a constant source of money to do so.

So yeah. Don't expect this to replace traditional game distribution methods.
Posted by Godot
I say the Xbox 360 is leading the console wars, just Wii has been bouncing back with WiiFit.



Posted by Trax
So what's the catch?

Ugly video compression, so don't expect Crysis to look as good as it would running on a normal PC.

Oh, and I think you screwed up in your conversion from kilobytes to megabytes.

Trax
Posted on 03-25-09 11:00 PM Link | Quote | ID: 103933


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I still use the terms kilobyte and megabyte for powers of 2, although the "official" terminology is now kibibytes and mebibytes...
I'm already an old geezer in that domain...

RT-55J
Posted on 03-25-09 11:01 PM Link | Quote | ID: 103935

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That's not what I meant. What I meant was that you multiplied when you should have divided.

blackhole89
Posted on 03-25-09 11:04 PM Link | Quote | ID: 103936


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Posted by RT-55J
That's not what I meant. What I meant was that you multiplied when you should have divided.

No, doesn't look like he did at all.

27240/1024 is 26,6015625 in my calc.

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RT-55J
Posted on 03-25-09 11:11 PM Link | Quote | ID: 103937

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*Checks*

...oh wait. It's the stupid international comma/period numbering inconsistency thing again.

*Grumbles*

NightKev
Posted on 03-25-09 11:38 PM Link | Quote | ID: 103943


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Sukasa
Posted on 03-26-09 05:37 AM Link | Quote | ID: 103981


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Posted by Trax
It's a clever concept, although not THAT new, it's just that those guys at the website are simply pushing the envelope as far as they can, in terms of marketing. Anyway, that put aside, basic math makes me sceptic quite a little. I took a screenshot of my desktop, without worrying about real-world representativity in a gaming environment, it's just for the test. With a resolution of 1024 x 768, I get a PNG of 908 KB.

908 KB x 30 FPS = 27240 KB/s = 26,6016 MB/s = 212,8125 Mbit/s
908 KB X 60 FPS = 54480 KB/s = 53,2031 MB/s = 425,625 Mbit/s

I consider my connection quite fast for normal house cable Internet, and I get a theoretical maximum of 7.5 Mbit/s in download. Looks quite far from what is remotely possible. So what's the catch?




The problem here is that you're using a lossless scheme, possibly not the most efficient one, and probably at 24 or 32 bit colour.

Compare to, say, a high-quality JPEG at a lower bit depth. These are games, not static images. A little noise is not going to ruin the experience.
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