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04-26-24 10:25 PM |
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| 0 users currently in ROM Hacking | 5 guests | 1 bot |
| Main - ROM Hacking - SMB Question - NTSC and PAL version | New thread | New reply |
| GameGenie81 |
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 Koopa Level: 24 Posts: 90/100 EXP: 78098 Next: 27 Since: 08-15-07 From: Milwaukie, OR Last post: 5434 days Last view: 5387 days |
Hi,
I have a question that some of you here might be able to assist me with. The "real" PAL version of Super Mario Bros. for the NES plays significantly faster than the NTSC version (I'm from the USA, a country that uses NTSC). What is all the code within the game's ROM that makes the "real" PAL version faster than the NTSC version? For instance, the game timer ticks at every 20 ($14 hex) frames for PAL, instead of every 24 ($18 hex) frames for NTSC. And what codes do I change to make the NTSC version of SMB as fast as the PAL version (music, the speed of Mario/Luigi, etc.)? This question was brought up in the British Retro Gamer magazine, the submission being written by one of its readers, Chris Myatt, in the publication's fifth issue, and continued in the next issue of RG by another reader, Joe Dixon, via e-mail. Among other things, he (Joe) says that the Game Boy Color version of SMB (SMB Deluxe) played slowly compared to his NES version (PAL). The NTSC version of SMB, he adds (when he'd played it on an emulator), also played as slow as the GBC version. He claims that a modification might've been done to make the PAL SMB quicker than its NTSC counterpart, and amounts an initial PAL conversion from NTSC would be 20% slower, making the NTSC version of SMB quite slow in his homeland. Thank you, Ben ____________________ We are a nation with no geographic boundaries, bound together through our beliefs. We are like-minded individuals, sharing a common vision, pushing toward a world rid of color lines. |
| Dr. Hell |
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 Lakitu Level: 52 Posts: 429/552 EXP: 1026519 Next: 57321 Since: 03-02-07 From: Pittsburgh, PA Last post: 5034 days Last view: 4991 days |
Are you sure it's actually something in the code, and not just the fact that the PAL format uses a different amount of frames per second than NTSC?
Secondly, and a little off topic, why did Retro Gamer have to get bought out? I'll never be able to see the article featuring one of my rom hacks now... |
| RetroRain |
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 Fuzz Ball Level: 66 Posts: 367/994 EXP: 2438285 Next: 23566 Since: 09-30-07 Last post: 1935 days Last view: 958 days |
I didn't even know there was a Retro Gamer magazine. Was this an online-published magazine, or was it an actual magazine? And they showed off ROM hacks in it? That's pretty neat. I wonder if there are anymore retro game magazines like this. ____________________ My YouTube Channel |
| Dragon Master |
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 Red Cheep-cheep Level: 34 Posts: 212/217 EXP: 252955 Next: 696 Since: 03-05-07 From: What do you mean with "fad is over"? Last post: 5328 days Last view: 5077 days |
Quick math here.
NTSC ticks at every 24th frame. Pal ticks at the 20th frame. NTSC uses 60 HZ PAL uses 50HZ 60/50 = 1.2 24/20 = 1.2 The PAL ticks faster because the whole system runs slower on PAL. The end result is the same speed. |
| Dr. Hell |
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Lakitu Level: 52 Posts: 430/552 EXP: 1026519 Next: 57321 Since: 03-02-07 From: Pittsburgh, PA Last post: 5034 days Last view: 4991 days |
Posted by Dragon Master Thank you, that's exactly what I was making a poor attempt at trying to say. Posted by RetroRain Retro Gamer still exists, it's just run by another company. It's a print magazine in the UK that covers nothing but Retro Gaming (obviously). The only way to get issues 1-30 (the ones before they got bought by another company) are in a digital format now. Issue 13 has a REALLY poorly written article about Rom Hacking. The only reason I was interested in the article at all is that they have a screen shot and mini-review of the first hack I ever made. Luckily last night I found... well... let's say a free way of getting my hands on issues 1-30, so I finally got to see it. The first two pages are about rom hacking. Then they talk about pirate consoles, hacking arcade machines, and Ben Heck's portable systems. |
| RANDY Ruler of Zexernet |
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 Shyguy Level: 23 Posts: 50/89 EXP: 65730 Next: 1993 Since: 07-17-07 From: Arizona, US Last post: 4631 days Last view: 256 days |
The overall effect of the timing is identical if your emulator knows to change the number of frames per second. But if you use the NTSC cartridge on a PAL NES (or vice versa), the timing will be wrong, because the real machine cannot just change its framerate. Similarly, an emulator that treats the PAL ROM like an NTSC ROM will play it too fast (because 1 game second would only take 5/6 of an emulated second).
Anything that involves time based on frame counts must be multiplied by 6/5 to convert from PAL to NTSC timing or by 5/6 to convert from NTSC to PAL. Anything based on seconds will be okay as-is once the seconds count is corrected. |
| GameGenie81 |
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Koopa Level: 24 Posts: 91/100 EXP: 78098 Next: 27 Since: 08-15-07 From: Milwaukie, OR Last post: 5434 days Last view: 5387 days |
I will reprint Joe Dixon's RG article (from issue six), the complete version. It is titled "Mario Explained."
"Regarding Chris Myatt's letter in issue five, I think I have an explanation for why one version of Super Mario Brothers on the NES may appear to be faster than another. Although I wasn't aware of a slower NES version being in existence for UK machines, I had noticed that when I bought the Game Boy Color version of Super Mario Brothers, the music was quite a lot slower than the music on my NES version (which is the one paired with Duck Hunt). I thought this was just the GBC version, but when I played the US version of Super Mario Brothers on an emulator, it also had the slower music. I can't say for sure whether or not my PAL NES version is actually a faster game than these other versions, because I don't have any of them on hand, but it's possible a slight modification could have been made to the NES Super Mario Brothers in this country to quicken it up. Presumably if the music on US versions of the game was a bit slower, an initial PAL conversion would have been a further 20% slower, which would be quite slow. You would think a Mattel sticker suggests an earlier version. Now, generally speaking, it's quite a complicated matter to speed a game up once it's been converted to PAL, as it would involve manipulation of the game's workings to make things move faster (and by a non-integer factor), and I think it's unlikely that this would have been done. You could very easily change the speed the music plays at though. Most music programming is tied into the frame rate. Because it is usually possible to generate a regular 'interrupt' at the end of every single frame, this is the preferred method of regulating the speed of the music. For example, it may be that every six or seven frames, the next unit of a musical pattern is played. Simply changing how many frames are waiting before updating the music's position would allow the music speed to be changed without the game's speed changing at all. Faster music could certainly give the impression that a game was running faster. This explanation is entirely conjecture, but it's viable at least. I've one more thought to add: if it's true that the game is in fact twice as fast in some incarnations, one way this may be possible is by twice running all the code the game would normally run once per frame, before updating the screen graphics. This would actually be easier to program than speeding up the game the way I mentioned previously, but I doubt this is the case, since this would effectively require twice as much processing to be done every frame." ~Ben ____________________ We are a nation with no geographic boundaries, bound together through our beliefs. We are like-minded individuals, sharing a common vision, pushing toward a world rid of color lines. |
| Main - ROM Hacking - SMB Question - NTSC and PAL version | New thread | New reply |
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