 |
|
Main
| FAQ
| Uploader
| IRC chat
| Radio
| Memberlist
| Active users
| Latest posts
| Calendar
| Stats
| Online users
| Search
| |||
| Views: 88,503,755 |
Main
| FAQ
| Uploader
| IRC chat
| Radio
| Memberlist
| Active users
| Latest posts
| Calendar
| Stats
| Online users
| Search
|
04-30-24 12:00 PM |
|
| Guest: Register | Login | |||
| 0 users currently in General Chat | 1 guest | 1 bot |
| Main - General Chat - Debt and Equity | New thread | New reply |
| Sukasa |
| ||
 Red Birdo Level: 92 Posts: 898/2112 EXP: 7691843 Next: 65094 Since: 02-19-07 Last post: 4452 days Last view: 3223 days |
Basically, paper/physical money and electronic money are different. Countries and banks use gold as an international standard of monetary trade, whereas within individual countries paper and physical money is used. The way electronic money fits into the puzzle is that it replaces paper money, e.g. you give the teller $50, and (s)he will give you that much electronically, normally this number is stored on the bank's secure (hopefully) system, and is accesible via a plastic card with magnetic strip- when you use that at a restaurant for example, the restaurant has a comptuer which connects to the bank's computer system, and transmits the data on the card, along with the transaction details. If the data is valid (correct pin, anough money for the transfer, etc.) then the amount of electronic money you have is reduced, and the restaurant's is increased. This sytem can also be used across countries, as the transfer of electronic money also implies a transfer of ownership of your gold- stored in a vault such as Fort Knox, to the coffers of whoever you just bought that $50 Starbucks latte from. although the Gold then does not actually move physically, that tiny piece of the gold bar that once belonged to you now implicitly belongs to that starbucks store. There's more to it, but enough of this wall of text. |
| Trax |
| ||
 Yellow Stalfos Level: 71 Posts: 472/1145 EXP: 3036796 Next: 130318 Since: 07-06-07 From: Québec Last post: 3631 days Last view: 2883 days |
Nice, but it still doesn't answer one of my questions: when you contract a loan, electronic money - not gold - is created and added to your account. From where is this money coming from and what is the counterpart of the transaction? |
| KP9000 |
| |||
 Boomboom Level: 90 Posts: 405/1975 EXP: 6955592 Next: 233017 Since: 02-19-07 Last post: 3584 days Last view: 3208 days |
|
| Trax |
| ||
|
Yellow Stalfos Level: 71 Posts: 479/1145 EXP: 3036796 Next: 130318 Since: 07-06-07 From: Québec Last post: 3631 days Last view: 2883 days |
If it's real money as you say, and that the electronic part is just a way of telling you how much you have, where does this money come from? From another person's account? No, I doubt it. A special bank account with infinite money, like in Monopoly? Maybe. If it's the case, it means the bank can charge you interest on infinite money? |
| NightKev |
| ||
 Cape Luigi Level: 131 Posts: 2976/4792 EXP: 26238514 Next: 186106 Since: 03-15-07 Last post: 3738 days Last view: 3650 days |
Argh there is no infinite money god damn it. ____________________ |
| Trax |
| ||
|
Yellow Stalfos Level: 71 Posts: 481/1145 EXP: 3036796 Next: 130318 Since: 07-06-07 From: Québec Last post: 3631 days Last view: 2883 days |
Where does the money come from, then? That's my question... |
| KP9000 |
| |||
|
Boomboom Level: 90 Posts: 406/1975 EXP: 6955592 Next: 233017 Since: 02-19-07 Last post: 3584 days Last view: 3208 days |
|
| Trax |
| ||
|
Yellow Stalfos Level: 71 Posts: 483/1145 EXP: 3036796 Next: 130318 Since: 07-06-07 From: Québec Last post: 3631 days Last view: 2883 days |
Banks don't lend other people's money, that's why I ask the question... |
| GreyMaria |
| ||
|
>implying even the Japanese understand the Japanese Level: 105 Posts: 1275/2851 EXP: 11924741 Next: 337519 Since: 07-13-07 Last post: 4501 days Last view: 4471 days |
Then where does my two bucks a month interest on my savings account come from? Does that mean the bank is actually paying me with its own money? Because if that's what you think it means, then every bank on the planet would be bankrupt. ____________________ we're currently experiencing some technical difficulties |
| Trax |
| ||
|
Yellow Stalfos Level: 71 Posts: 484/1145 EXP: 3036796 Next: 130318 Since: 07-06-07 From: Québec Last post: 3631 days Last view: 2883 days |
That's a key point of our banking systems, in my opinion...
If the bank can't take money from my account to lend to somebody else, where does it come from? |
| NightKev |
| ||
|
Cape Luigi Level: 131 Posts: 2981/4792 EXP: 26238514 Next: 186106 Since: 03-15-07 Last post: 3738 days Last view: 3650 days |
Posted by Grey MarioExcept, they make way more money than they pay out, obviously. Besides, even if your account has "$500" in it, if you don't withdraw it then they still have access to it, and you don't actually get anything unless you do withdraw it. So they aren't giving as much money to people as you think. ____________________ |
| Skreeny |
| ||
 Cobrat Level: 56 Posts: 632/653 EXP: 1322174 Next: 76002 Since: 02-21-07 Last post: 5345 days Last view: 4846 days |
Posted by TraxYou're missing the part where they actually do that. The bank doesn't necessarily have all the money it claims to; if it did, bank failure couldn't occur, by definition. |
| KP9000 |
| |||
|
Boomboom Level: 90 Posts: 407/1975 EXP: 6955592 Next: 233017 Since: 02-19-07 Last post: 3584 days Last view: 3208 days |
|
| Trax |
| ||
|
Yellow Stalfos Level: 71 Posts: 487/1145 EXP: 3036796 Next: 130318 Since: 07-06-07 From: Québec Last post: 3631 days Last view: 2883 days |
Posted by "NightKev" When you go to the automatic guichet, does it say on the screen: "Sorry, Mr. NightKev, your money is being lent to Mr. Doe, come back later". No, of course... But let's assume, as you say, that they "make" money with my money. What is created in exchange? Example: if I bake a cake and sell it to you, there is two parts in the exchange. You receive my cake, and I get your money. Cake <-> Money. But now you're saying that banks are doing: Money <-> Money? It doesn't make sense. You think you can buy 6$ for 5$? If you could, you'd be rich in no time. Pretty cool... Posted by "Skreeny" Aaahh?... They have fantom money? And they charge you interest and fees on fantom money? Money that "doesn't really exist"? Wow. That'd be cool if I could do that, right? Hey, Skreeny, here I lend you invisible money, at 16% interest, what do you think? Do you think this makes sense? |
| Black Lord |
| ||
 Red Cheep-cheep Level: 35 Posts: 190/220 EXP: 258580 Next: 21356 Since: 02-19-07 Last post: 5425 days Last view: 5425 days |
Posted by NightKev Um... banks actually do "create" money, and they can loan out more than what they have on reserve. They don't have to have the money to back any loan they make, they only have to have a percentage of the money to back it, I believe whatever the reserve ratio is at. (Just took a Macroeconomics class). So yes, banks do create money, take an entry level Macro class and you'll be taught exactly how, I can go into more detail later on how it works when I'm back at home and have my notes to make exactly sure how it's done, but they do "create" money. As far as debt goes, I didn't notice it when I glanced over this thread, but I know in at least the United States, the majority of the debt isn't to other countries, but to businesses, people, etc. in the United States in the form of bonds, and other things like that. That is where most of the debt is in the U.S. and I'm assuming it's similar in other countries as well. ____________________  |
| boingboingsplat |
| ||||
 Giant Koopa [PREFSTRING:wonderful bounciness] Level: 74 Posts: 465/1292 EXP: 3634919 Next: 18625 Since: 07-23-07 From: Michicola Last post: 4846 days Last view: 4808 days |
|
| Skreeny |
| ||
|
Cobrat Level: 56 Posts: 633/653 EXP: 1322174 Next: 76002 Since: 02-21-07 Last post: 5345 days Last view: 4846 days |
Posted by TraxYes. It's called a "bank account". You may have heard of them?Posted by "Skreeny" |
| Trax |
| ||
|
Yellow Stalfos Level: 71 Posts: 492/1145 EXP: 3036796 Next: 130318 Since: 07-06-07 From: Québec Last post: 3631 days Last view: 2883 days |
Yeah, I vaguely heard about it... But since they can create money in it (according to Black Lord), without any counterpart, we have to call it fraud. Just like those who make counterfeited money...
Posted by "boingboingsplat" If this is true, it effectively connects to what I said earlier. The bank uses this money to "buy" money. Do you think it makes sense to buy money? If you can buy 6$ for 5$, then you can't call it money anymore, since money is supposed to be the means between goods, not goods itself... Here, a conversation between a client and the bank clerk: - Hi, I'd like to buy 120$, please. - Sure, hold on a second. The clerk types on his computer... - It will be a total of 133.26$. - Okay, can I pay cash? - Sure. So the guys gives 133.26$ to the clerk, and the clerk gives back 120$ to the guy. |
| Kawa |
| ||
 CHIKKN NI A BAAZZKIT!!! 80's Cheerilee is best pony Level: 138 Posts: 1179/5344 EXP: 30954843 Next: 708138 Since: 02-20-07 From: The Netherlands Last post: 4502 days Last view: 2637 days |
Posted by TraxSeriously, Trax. What are you on and where can I get some? ____________________ Wife make lunch - Shampoo Opera - give it a spin Spare some of your free time? <GreyMaria> I walked around the Lake so many goddamn times that my sex drive was brutally murdered Kawa rocks  — byuu |
| GreyMaria |
| ||
|
>implying even the Japanese understand the Japanese Level: 105 Posts: 1281/2851 EXP: 11924741 Next: 337519 Since: 07-13-07 Last post: 4501 days Last view: 4471 days |
It's illegal in 51 states and 721 countries. It's also illegal in the entire continent of South America. ____________________ we're currently experiencing some technical difficulties |
| Main - General Chat - Debt and Equity | New thread | New reply |
© 2005-2023 Acmlm, blackhole89, Xkeeper et al. |
|
MySQL - queries: 117, rows: 146/146, time: 0.015 seconds. |
