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04-27-24 01:48 AM |
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| Main - ROM Hacking - The Secret to Making Good Mario Levels | New thread | New reply |
| RetroRain |
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 Fuzz Ball Level: 66 Posts: 159/994 EXP: 2438313 Next: 23538 Since: 09-30-07 Last post: 1935 days Last view: 958 days |
For the longest time, I was having a hard time coming up with really good level designs. For SMB3, I had SMB3WS opened, and I was just staring at the editor, trying to think of what I can do to make a good level. Nothing really came to mind. So, I just experimented, and put random things in to make the level. Usually in the end, I wasn't satisfied with the level.
I have found it though. I have found the secret to making good Mario levels. And you can apply this to other games as well. TURN OFF THE COMPUTER. Get out of the editor. You can't think of good level ideas when you are at the editor. It just doesn't happen. I remember when I was younger, like from the ages 5-10, and all I did was create my own SMB levels, and I remember them being very good. Now, what happens? I'm older now, found out about ROM hacking, have the tools I need to make my own levels, and what happens? Can't think of good level designs. I have finally solved this problem. BUY GRAPH PAPER!! I just came back from the beach. While I was there, I had my graph paper out, and I was able to make another awesome level for my SMB3 hack, Dark Mario. This level is an underground water level. And it looks so good on paper. All I have to do is go in the editor, and put the pieces where they belong! 
Believe it or not, but you tend to think more clearly, and freely, when you are not staring at the editor on the computer screen. Turn off the computer, go out and buy some graph paper, and just go someplace where you can relax, and think freely. Let your pen draw your imagination. You see, your imagination doesn't come when you are in the editor, because that is the one moment that you need your imagination the most! Ironic, isn't it? If my scanner was working, I'd show you my levels on the graph paper. But try it. I was able to draw an awesome underground water level, that I wouldn't have done if I was staring at the editor. Believe me, I have tried thinking of good levels at the editor. It just doesn't happen for some reason. This graph paper has worked wonders!! I will show my next level really soon. I just have to put the pieces together!! ____________________ My YouTube Channel |
| GreyMaria |
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>implying even the Japanese understand the Japanese Level: 105 Posts: 1153/2851 EXP: 11921412 Next: 340848 Since: 07-13-07 Last post: 4498 days Last view: 4467 days |
Nah, it's possible, you just need to practice not doing anything else. ____________________ we're currently experiencing some technical difficulties |
| Raccoon Sam |
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 Cobrat Level: 56 Posts: 518/672 EXP: 1380094 Next: 18082 Since: 02-19-07 From: Hi Last post: 3468 days Last view: 2699 days |
That's exactly how I designed a whole hack (which, ironically enough I canceled later).
I did plans on paper, and it worked wonders. Usually if I work with an editor and try to design a level I get distracted by other things, unless I've had a sudden motivation boost like I did with my Super Mario Land 2 hack. ____________________ |
| Tyty |
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 Vire Jizz Danmaku Level: 77 Posts: 508/1381 EXP: 4046219 Next: 144910 Since: 04-20-07 From: Canada Last post: 4448 days Last view: 3720 days |
This works well, I am coonstantly distracted by IRC while on the computer.
Of course, I still sorta suck at level design as it is. ____________________ |
| PSlugworth |
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 Cheep-cheep Level: 32 Posts: 84/189 EXP: 205849 Next: 593 Since: 02-19-07 From: Brooklyn, NY Last post: 5033 days Last view: 2661 days |
Another good suggestion is to play through the game you're hacking over and over and get a feel for how the original levels were created. It sounds obvious and stupid, but I feel like I play some hacks where people made levels based on what they thought the original game was like rather than basing it on how it was actually put together.
It's the little touches, like using coins to guide people over blind jumps and tricky things to maneuver around, or sticking to a limited "palette" of enemies for each level, that make the game seem more authentic and fun. With level hacks, I always felt like the best hacks played like sequels to or lost levels from the game that was being hacked. There's a reason the original designers put elements together the way they did, after all: the levels were designed around the way the game is played; if you're going to go all-out and do a bunch of ASM hacks that totally change the gameplay, though, that's another story altogether. ____________________ andrew sylvester dot com | retrogaming @ robot vaudeville |
| NetSplit |
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Level: 32 Posts: 92/178 EXP: 188040 Next: 18402 Since: 02-26-07 Last post: 2218 days Last view: 2143 days |
When I make a level in my Mega Man hack, I typically have a vague idea of what I'm going to do beforehand and then just throw things into the level that don't look too difficult, adhere to the theme or gimmick of the level, and keep it varied and interesting. Then I play through to make sure that the basic level design is good enough and not too difficult. Jumps are one of the most important things to playtest; pixel-perfect jumps or jumps you miss way too often need to be removed. I populate the level with enemies after I've done the level design and basic testing, and if need be, I'll change the level to accommodate good enemy placement.
It's important to have a basic understand of what the level will be like and needs before you start on it. I knew one of my stages would be exceptionally quick because of the gimmick I made for it, so I swapped a different level with the title screen in order to allow for more level data space. With the extra space, I was able to make a stage that feels like the right length, but is actually much longer than normal stages. With other games (Battle City), I just throw something together and scrap it if it doesn't play well. If it plays at least okay and looks to have potential, I consider it worth keeping and then mess around with the design it until it feels just right. A lot of it has to do with good level design intuition. It's also worth keeping in mind who your audience is. If you're exceptionally good at the game, make your levels easy for you (but not stupid-easy) if you intend to make it playable for everyone. My levels are typically very hard mostly because I'm good at the game and I make my hacks primarily for me, so I want them to be an entertaining challenge for me. |
| Googie |
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 Giant Red Paratroopa Level: 77 Posts: 289/1407 EXP: 4181304 Next: 9825 Since: 02-19-07 From: Brooklyn, NY Last post: 9 days Last view: 9 days |
Back in the days, when the NES was king'o consoles at the time. I used to draw levels on paper too, somma my SMB hacks are based on levels that I remembered drawing when I was a kid, still stuck in my mind.
But yeah, always having a foundation is the best idea for level designing, and whatever works out for each person, just grab it & run with it...  ____________________ My Linktree |
| CKY-9K |
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 Pokey Level: 57 Posts: 405/693 EXP: 1430541 Next: 55387 Since: 06-27-07 From: cKy Last post: 211 days Last view: 119 days |
How to make a bad SMB level: Be one of those douches who make those lame glitch-bitch levels and jump-on-small-blocks levels.
Mario is supposed to be about a fun actual terrain with a fit layout. ____________________ 
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| Xeruss |
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 Sledge Brother Compromised account. Level: 86 Posts: 239/1815 EXP: 6126079 Next: 16028 Since: 02-19-07 From: Oregon Last post: 1813 days Last view: 1813 days |
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| Kawa |
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 CHIKKN NI A BAAZZKIT!!! 80's Cheerilee is best pony Level: 138 Posts: 984/5344 EXP: 30946398 Next: 716583 Since: 02-20-07 From: The Netherlands Last post: 4499 days Last view: 2634 days |
I used to draw Yoshi's Island levels on graph paper. With an editor GUI around it.
Level objects matched up pretty good, despite not knowing the whole damn series has object-oriented levels. Incidentally, this was before Lunar Magic even came out. ____________________ Wife make lunch - Shampoo Opera - give it a spin Spare some of your free time? <GreyMaria> I walked around the Lake so many goddamn times that my sex drive was brutally murdered Kawa rocks — byuu |
| interdpth |
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 Buzzy Beetle Level: 44 Posts: 243/383 EXP: 593695 Next: 17590 Since: 02-22-07 Last post: 4099 days Last view: 4073 days |
Offtopic: I could've sworn the topic was "The secret to making good love" ____________________ lawl blog http://interdpths.blogspot.com/ |
| Kawa |
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CHIKKN NI A BAAZZKIT!!! 80's Cheerilee is best pony Level: 138 Posts: 986/5344 EXP: 30946398 Next: 716583 Since: 02-20-07 From: The Netherlands Last post: 4499 days Last view: 2634 days |
Mario levels != love, Matt. If it was, I'd hack Mario games all day, not Pokémon. ____________________ Wife make lunch - Shampoo Opera - give it a spin Spare some of your free time? <GreyMaria> I walked around the Lake so many goddamn times that my sex drive was brutally murdered Kawa rocks — byuu |
| NightKev |
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 Cape Luigi Level: 131 Posts: 2849/4792 EXP: 26231331 Next: 193289 Since: 03-15-07 Last post: 3735 days Last view: 3647 days |
LO: I think DahrkDaiz heard you... Posted by DahrkDaiz ____________________ |
| RetroRain |
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Fuzz Ball Level: 66 Posts: 163/994 EXP: 2438313 Next: 23538 Since: 09-30-07 Last post: 1935 days Last view: 958 days |
Today, and yesterday, I managed to do 3 whole levels, because I did them on graph paper first. If I keep doing it this way, I'll have quality levels, and it will make this hack go by a lot faster. Right now, Dark Mario is 1/4 done. ____________________ My YouTube Channel |
| DahrkDaiz |
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 Nipper Plant Sandwich Artist Level: 46 Posts: 133/417 EXP: 674485 Next: 37289 Since: 02-22-07 Last post: 3487 days Last view: 3407 days |
The real secret to making good SMB3 levels is using my editor when it comes out ;D |
| Dr. Hell |
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 Lakitu Level: 52 Posts: 336/552 EXP: 1026531 Next: 57309 Since: 03-02-07 From: Pittsburgh, PA Last post: 5034 days Last view: 4991 days |
/shameless self promotion
Seriously though, I'm all about the idea or drawing things out first. That especially came in handy for making the design for the new screen data in Chorus. I also do that if I'm coming up with an original character or enemy. I don't remember if I still have it, but if I do, I got a ton of level ideas and concept art for Chorus stashed away. Drawing out your ideas isn't just a good idea for Mario games, it's a good idea for just about anything. |
| Main - ROM Hacking - The Secret to Making Good Mario Levels | New thread | New reply |
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