YOU MUST CONSTRUCT ADDITIONAL PYLONS...AGAIN - Board 2

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Please chime in on a proposed restructuring of the ROM hacking sections.

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Main - Gaming - YOU MUST CONSTRUCT ADDITIONAL PYLONS...AGAIN

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Posted on 05-20-07 01:42 PM (rev. 2 of 05-20-07 01:44 PM)

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Posted by Xenesis
Because knowing Blizz's recent history it'll be one of the three:

1) Nothing like the previous games, and craptacular at the same time (Warcraft III, WoW)
2) The same game with slightly better graphics.

Then again, the nukes in SC2 look like firecrackers. NUCLEAR LAUNCH DETECTED is more threatening than the damn actual nuke is. They don't deserve to be called Nukes.

Give me Supcom Nukes anyday.

Blizzard hasn't made anything original since the nineties. They create interesting universes, but they need to actually create something new rather than whoring out all their old games. Again. I want to like Blizzard, they did interesting stuff back in the nineties but they give me no reason to like them nowadays.

What are you even talking about?

WoW's original Dev team left very early on, it is widely believed that the game was going to go in a completely different direction before that happened.. Besides, it is an MMO, you can't really compare it to the previous games of the series. Not to mention, it can't be that craptacular (no matter what you or I thinks) if it has managed to dominate the MMO market since its launch.

WC3 just went in a different direction. "Nothing like the old games" versus "Same old rehash of crap." Can't win with that logic, just doesn't work. Besides, I personally felt it was a pretty good game for what it was, and so did plenty of other people. (Even if it was a distance away from the originals in the series.)

Starcraft was released nine years ago, you can't "whore out" something that hasn't been revisited in that long a period.. and as well, it is widely hailed as one of the best all time RTS games out there. Besides, the story did end up leaving a big opening for a sequel.. (And don't mention Ghost, that was a spin off title that went through a ton of issues in its dev cycle, it was canned because it wasn't going anywhere.. besides, more people want another RTS from Blizzard set in the SC universe than some oddball FPS\Stealth shooter.) Not to mention, that a lot of people (myself included) have just wanted this, for quite awhile. Be happy that a lot of fans get what they want instead of grumbling about Blizzard not inventing a new universe.. =P (Besides, as a writer myself.. I find it MUCH easier to work with my current universes than to re-invent new ones.. The more you try to make anew, the more they start to look like each other.. which in many ways is worse than continuing existing storylines.)

Annnd.. I'm not even going to try and decipher your firecrackers comment, since the game is still early in development and there isn't that much media to use as a frame of reference for something like that yet.

Xenesis

Posted on 05-20-07 01:58 PM

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It took three nukes to clear one screen. THREE.

I expect massive damage when I nuke things.

Oh, and WoW is the natural extension of 'Hero'Craft III.

Warcraft II : RTS
Warcraft III: Hero Game with meatshields
World of Warcraft: Hero MMORPG

Seems like a natural extension to me.

And just tell me that Bliz isn't whoring out it's games when Starcraft II Generic Expansion Pack, World of Starcraft etc. get released.

Thexare Blademoon

Posted on 05-20-07 03:59 PM

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Posted by Xenesis
1) Nothing like the previous games, and craptacular at the same time (Warcraft III, WoW)
2) The same game with slightly better graphics.

So do you want something new or not? You appear to be bitching either way.

Xenesis

Posted on 05-20-07 05:36 PM (rev. 3 of 05-20-07 05:38 PM)

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I want something completely new, unrelated to Starcraft, Warcraft, Diablo, Lost Vikings or Rock and Roll Racing. The craptacular comment is the fact that Blizzard seems to have forgotten how to make games fun in the last few years. They have talent as a studio which is mostly being wasted IMO.

Xkeeper

Posted on 05-20-07 07:43 PM

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If you want something new and fresh, you're in the wrong industry

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I dealt with it.

Mystery Gourmet

Posted on 05-20-07 08:04 PM (rev. 3 of 05-20-07 08:05 PM)

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Posted by Xenesis
GRR

I HATE BLIZZARD BECAUSE IT IS POPULAR AND ITS THE COOL THING TO DO

LOOK AT ME IN ALL MY COOLNESS.

Skreeny

Posted on 05-20-07 08:49 PM

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Posted by Xenesis
It took three nukes to clear one screen. THREE.

The amount needed is seldom the same as the amount used. I regularly used that many to clear screens in the original, for a combination of embarrassing the opponent and to clear out meddlesome buildings. The fact of the matter is, I'm pretty sure those nukes did the same damage as the ones in the original (look at the blast radius on the outside of the damaged area, not on the inside).

Posted by Xenesis
And just tell me that Bliz isn't whoring out it's games when Starcraft II Generic Expansion Pack, World of Starcraft etc. get released.

HAY I CAN ARGUE BASED ON HYPOTHETICALS TOO. THAT NEW POKEMON FPS IS GONNA SUCK.

Posted on 05-20-07 09:26 PM (rev. 2 of 05-21-07 04:34 AM)

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Posted by Xenesis
It took three nukes to clear one screen. THREE.

I expect massive damage when I nuke things.

Well, excuse me if they didn't want to redo the game's entire delicate balance between races and build strategies just to give you cooler nukes.

I agree the graphics aren't looking great as of now, but they're still so far from done that I would expect them to change at least a little before release.

Posted by Xenesis
And just tell me that Bliz isn't whoring out it's games when Starcraft II Generic Expansion Pack, World of Starcraft etc. get released.

The difference between what Blizz has put out and whoring out sequels is that everything Blizz has put out with one of it's beloved trademarks on it (Warcraft, Diablo, Starcraft) has been quality through and through. Who cares if they're set in the same world when they're all fucking quality games? All their old universes are still just as interesting as when they were new.

I'm really surprised and really disappointed the guy with the Final Fantasy avatar is complaining about whoring out sequels.

Ailure

Posted on 05-20-07 11:55 PM

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I'm amused that minerals resemble Blue Tiberium in screenshots.

I don't recall it being that dark blue.

And about nukes. Some RTS series had really weak nukes, but made them stronger with it's sequels. Command and Conquer: Red alert probably have the weakest nuke in the whole CnC series. Super weapons was made much more powerful in CnC3, but then buildings were generally bigger scalewise too. And while all sides had different super weapons, and while they worked differently in how they damage stuff... they still did do around the same amount of damage.

And Starcraft is one of those RTS games that made three different sides without resorting to having 'clone units' between the sides that functions nearly the same. Biggest similarity between the sides in Starcraft is pretty much how they collect resources. While I prefer CnC3 (and Red alert games) over Starcraft I have to say that each side have some similarity. It's understandable when it's two/three different human factions... but not with a third alien faction. xD But yeah, I find it awesome when they manage to balance a game without resorting to making lots of clone units.

Gaming companies are sometimes in a moment 22 situation when it comes to sequels. You either hold onto a working formula, and get blamed on for not being too original, or you strife away from it and people complain that the new system works worse than the original or that it feels like a different game series.

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Skreeny

Posted on 05-21-07 12:07 AM

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I suspect they seem that dark because there's actual lighting in this one, and space is... not the brightest place in the universe. Put them somewhere well-lit and I could see them being more similarly colored to the ones in the first one.

Actually, they don't look much darker than the old ones, anyway. Just a bit less bleached-looking, really.

Ailure

Posted on 05-21-07 12:21 AM

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Hmm, I blame the similarity for the fact that minerals seems to be glowing now. xD

At least, I would expect the mineral appearing slightly transparent in Starcraft2. Then it's early screenshots and it might change, and it might not. :p

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Xeogred

Posted on 05-21-07 01:41 AM

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Posted by Xenesis
It took three nukes to clear one screen. THREE.

I expect massive damage when I nuke things.

Supreme Commander. 1 nuke from that game would have wiped out everything on that screen easily. One Commander dying would probably have been like 5 times the radius of that screen.

Xenesis

Posted on 05-21-07 03:54 AM

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Exactly. That is why I love SupCom so.

A nuke isn't a nuke if you can't laugh diabolically while you do it. Then again, a Supcom Nuke would wipe out an entire standard Starcraft map.

Well, excuse me if they didn't want to redo the game's entire delicate balance between races and build strategies just to give you cooler nukes.

I remember when the Blizzard mantra was to make everything as fun and as broken as hell in the Betas and then scale them back in the final releases. Anyway, it's a sequel. There's going to be a new balance regardless.

The difference between what Blizz has put out and whoring out sequels is that everything Blizz has put out with one of it's beloved trademarks on it (Warcraft, Diablo, Starcraft) has been quality through and through. Who cares if they're set in the same world when they're all fucking quality games? All their old universes are still just as interesting as when they were new.

Well, I thought WoW and WCIII were crap, but that's just me. Quality crap, but still crap.

I'm really surprised and really disappointed the guy with the Final Fantasy avatar is complaining about whoring out sequels.

That's because Square takes about 5 games to do things right before they then fuck it up again. FF6 IMO is the only one that stands decently in terms of plot.

Posted by Mystery Gourmet
Posted by Xenesis
GRR

I HATE BLIZZARD BECAUSE IT IS POPULAR AND ITS THE COOL THING TO DO

LOOK AT ME IN ALL MY COOLNESS.

You might be surprised to know that Diablo II is one of the games I'm more fond of.

Starcraft was fun in the day but I'm sick of it, as is Warcraft I/II.

Posted by Xkeeper
If you want something new and fresh, you're in the wrong industry

I'm an idealist.

Gaming companies are sometimes in a moment 22 situation when it comes to sequels. You either hold onto a working formula, and get blamed on for not being too original, or you strife away from it and people complain that the new system works worse than the original or that it feels like a different game series.

Which is exactly why sequels aren't usually as exciting as new IPs, unless you are a hardcore fan of the original game and they make it similarish. Then again, I still feel the desire to slap people upside the head when they complain that AWDS isn't exactly like AW2 with just new COs.

Posted on 05-21-07 11:16 PM

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so, who's reinstalled SC?

Brushing up and stuff

totally forgot how to play zerg and terran

theclaw

Posted on 05-22-07 12:15 AM

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I haven't gotten into RTSs much. Played a tiny bit of SC a few years ago, sometimes I'll play that Dawn of War game. Can't afford to buy SupCom or CnC3 now though.

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Posted on 05-22-07 06:17 AM

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I never uninstalled SC

. After 6 years of playing it, I'm "ok" at melee games

.

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Posted on 05-22-07 09:03 PM (rev. 2 of 05-22-07 09:05 PM)

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Posted by Xenesis
I want something completely new, unrelated to Starcraft, Warcraft, Diablo, Lost Vikings or Rock and Roll Racing. The craptacular comment is the fact that Blizzard seems to have forgotten how to make games fun in the last few years. They have talent as a studio which is mostly being wasted IMO.

--Blizzard's most recent game: World of Warcraft. The single largest MMO in the world by a huge margin. Has a fanbase that has brought more non-gamers into gaming than anything short of Tetris. Personally, I can't stand the entire genre for psychological reasons I'm not going to attempt to explain to you. But that doesn't make the game suck, that makes me not the intended audience. A game with that many players must be called fun.
--Blizzard's second most recent game: Warcraft III. Once again, tons of people think this game is a lot of fun. At a deep strategic level, it's pretty crap. But that's obviously not where they were headed with this game. I can get non-gamers to play this with me. You can't do that with Starcraft. I think that says something about its appeal.
--Blizzard's third most recent game: Diablo II. You said you like this yourself. Personally, I can't stand it for the same reason I can't stand MMOs, but, as I'm getting at, that's not the point. People who like this kind of game thing Diablo II is one of the best ever.
--Blizzard's fourth most recent game: Starcraft. Oh. Wait. The single most long-lasting, strategically significant, and otherwise awesome RTS. I think that counts as fun.

Blizzard has a system. That system is that each of their series appeals to a different group of people. Why? Because they're good enough to pull it off, and pulling it off makes them more money.
--Lost Vikings: Puzzle game audience. Note that they mostly went away, and so has the franchise.
--Warcraft: Casual game-playing public. Note that these games are never very strategic, but rather just devoted to teching to whatever unit you think is coolest and making a ton of them, then having a big pretty battle.
--Diablo: People who like to watch R go up. R is a variable that determines how easily you can make R go up.
--Starcraft: Strategy gaming fans. Notice how they aren't included in Warcraft, as much as they like to think they are.

The /only/ game they've made that breaks this mold is World of Warcraft, which is Diablo/Warcraft and everybody knows it.

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Koitenshin -∞

Posted on 05-22-07 09:50 PM

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Posted by Squash Monster
Posted by Xenesis
-Diablo: People who like to watch R go up. R is a variable that determines how easily you can make R go up.

Yeah I definitely fit that crowd. Although the same can be said for ANY RPG as well, including WoW.

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What FF7: Advent Children Character Are You?

Posted on 05-22-07 10:08 PM

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Posted by Koitenshin +∞
Posted by Squash Monster
-Diablo: People who like to watch R go up. R is a variable that determines how easily you can make R go up.

Yeah I definitely fit that crowd. Although the same can be said for ANY RPG as well, including WoW.

This is true.

The entire increase-R genre works because our brains are hard-wired to make us happy when we improve ourselves. People can project themselves into their character in such a way that improving their character triggers the self-improvement response and it makes them happy. That's why people like RPGs. And my brain doesn't do that, so I can't stand the entire genre.

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Posted on 05-22-07 11:51 PM (rev. 2 of 05-23-07 12:12 AM)

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Posted by Squash Monster
Posted by Koitenshin +∞
Posted by Squash Monster
-Diablo: People who like to watch R go up. R is a variable that determines how easily you can make R go up.

Yeah I definitely fit that crowd. Although the same can be said for ANY RPG as well, including WoW.
This is true.

The entire increase-R genre works because our brains are hard-wired to make us happy when we improve ourselves. People can project themselves into their character in such a way that improving their character triggers the self-improvement response and it makes them happy. That's why people like RPGs. And my brain doesn't do that, so I can't stand the entire genre.

See also: Postcount

I've had this theory about these kinds of things for a long time, and I'm glad someone agrees with me.

Interestingly, if you know the right kind of psychology, you could make those games (or even message boards) ten times as addicting as they already are. Which would be... really bad.

EDIT: I get this on and off sometimes. I guess it depends if I like the game; I never really wasted my time maxing out, say, FF9, because I wanted to just finish the game as soon as possible so I could get it done with. (Plus there was still a thin hope in me that the game would stop being so miserable towards the end, which was not quite satisfied...)

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