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| Acmlm's Board - I3 Archive - World Affairs/Debate - Patriot Act Senate Vote |
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Wurl                   Since: 11-17-05 Last post: 6506 days Last view: 6506 days |
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| Well, the Patriot Act Renewal was passed 89-10 in the Senate today.
Patriot Act I, for one, am angry that the Patriot Act re-passed congress. What's worse is that 14 out of the 16 provisions were made permanent, while the other two provisions will be voted on in 2009. While I hesitate to call the U.S. a totalitarian state, I do believe that under the Patriot Act, American's civil liberties are in jeopardy to a certain extent. |
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Snow Tomato Snap Dragon   Since: 12-31-05 From: NYC Last post: 6486 days Last view: 6471 days |
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| Well if you don't vote for it... you're not Patriotic. Just look at the name of it.
Some would argue that our civil liberties aren't as important as the security of the country, which I agree to a certain extent with. However there are certain parts of the patriot act that I believe cross the line that I've drawn in my head. The fact that they can wire tap anyone at any time, ever.. kind of bothers me.. alot. The powers the patriot act grants are kind of.. extreme to the max. They can put anyone under survailance for any reason. It could be just because you are muslim, or just because you seem like you MIGHT be engaged in suspicious activity. The grounds for survailance aren't clearly set at when they can and can't wiretap someone or when they can or can't monitor someone's internet activities, or their mail. That's the part that really bothers me. It could be ten times worse though. On top of just survailing people, they could be censoring us. They could be placing limits on our free speech and using these survailance methods to crack down on people who just don't agree with the government. So, although I don't think the Patriot Act is an amazing idea... I don't think it's the worst of our problems at the moment. I just wish the guidelines for who they can and can't wiretap should be set more specifically. Like, I shouldn't be wiretapped or survailed.. because I haven't done anything at all. Ya know? If they're just going after suspected terrorists and such, then I'd be fine with it. But in practice, that doesn't seem to be entirely true right now. |
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Sinfjotle Lordly? No, not quite.  Since: 11-17-05 From: Kansas Last post: 6467 days Last view: 6465 days |
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| Old, widely known, over done quote. (That I can't get word for word.)
Thoe who would give up freedom for secruity don't deserve either. =( I expected it though. I don't like it, but I don't like how things have been ran these last four years. |
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mattp Red Paratroopa Since: 03-04-06 Last post: 6729 days Last view: 6729 days |
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| The United States of America is quickly going the way of Rome... | |||
Jomb Deddorokku  Since: 12-03-05 From: purgatory Last post: 6468 days Last view: 6468 days |
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| I find the Patriot Act to be deeply disturbing, and UN-PATRIOTIC. Whats next? Are they going to make a law that says that the government owns everything and you are only borrowing it, then call it the America Hates Rape Act. That way if you vote against it you obviously are pro-rape? | |||
Sabishii Red Paragoomba Since: 02-26-06 From: Georgia Last post: 6632 days Last view: 6632 days |
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| I love the quote Dracoon used. It frustrates me greatly that this was allowed, but it's right on time if you follow trends with various "Sedition" acts through the history of the country.
I hate how the whole country is willing to give up privacy and to limit rights for a false security. New methods of communication will be developed or new technology to circumvent what's being monitored will be invented, any fool could predict that. Besides, there can't be a "war" on terrorism, just as there can't be a "war" on drugs. It's going to keep happening and the way to stop it is not by resticting rights and monitoring every form of communication. What bothers me more is the people who don't mind it. The idea that you should have no problem with it if you have nothing to hide is absolutely infuriating. It's the principle of the thing. It's like saying you should have no problem with having a survailance camera in your bedroom if you have nothing to hide. Maybe you don't, but at the same time, the idea of it is rather disturbing, is it not? Perhaps I exaggerate a bit, but it's the principle of the matter. |
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Wurl Since: 11-17-05 Last post: 6506 days Last view: 6506 days |
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| Sounds like certain people hate freedom. | |||
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mattp Red Paratroopa Since: 03-04-06 Last post: 6729 days Last view: 6729 days |
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| Des/Sabishii- it's not the whole country, just the people in power who decide who's going to get elected. | |||
SamuraiX Broom Hatter Since: 11-19-05 Last post: 6465 days Last view: 6466 days |
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| It it not democratic to not complain when you think something is completely messed up, and violating your Constitutional rights. . .except, a certain administration defiled, burned, and declared it communist. | |||
Skydude Armos Knight  Since: 02-18-06 From: Stanford, CA Last post: 6738 days Last view: 6738 days |
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| I'd really rather not get into the politics discussion at the moment, I'll just clarify something. If you're going to be technical, it's the USA PATRIOT Act.
Uniting and Strengthening America by Providing Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism The one thing I'll say is that there is most certainly a trade-off between freedom and security. In a totalitarian state, we could be extremely secure. But then, why would we care about the security of such an awful place to live? On the other extreme, complete freedom of about everything with no restrictions cripples the effectiveness of the police and other defensive forces. Where's the right place somewhere between those two to be? I don't know. |
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mattp Red Paratroopa Since: 03-04-06 Last post: 6729 days Last view: 6729 days |
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Depends on the situation. In times of peace ( IE Now ), there should be no or close to no limitations. In times of war, there should be strict limitations. |
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Skydude Armos Knight Since: 02-18-06 From: Stanford, CA Last post: 6738 days Last view: 6738 days |
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| But I think that may be where you differ with the opinions of a lot of people. In a sense, this is certainly a time of peace. Bush may not be perfect, but he was certainly right in saying that it is a war on terror...it's a new kind of warfare, and not really the same as anything we've seen in the past. In fact, conventional wars may be all but over due to nuclear weapons and the fact that most of the powerful states understand the futility of them...so it's really only acts of 'terrorism' that will constitute warfare, and trying to prevent them.
Are we at war? I'm not sure. |
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SamuraiX Broom Hatter Since: 11-19-05 Last post: 6465 days Last view: 6466 days |
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| You can stop terrorism as much as you can stop of all the drug trade, human trafficking, et al. And what excactly do you call terrorism? By definition, terrorism is violence--or the threat of--on the citizens to achieve political, ideological, or religious goals. How is the US not a terrorist country, despite tortorous imprisonment of citizens and non-citizens, without charge or trial? I will tell you. It is because the US is the strongest nation militarily and economically speaking. And by making a war on "terror", the government can extend it to just about anything they want. | |||
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Wurl Since: 11-17-05 Last post: 6506 days Last view: 6506 days |
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| My main problem is this: Bush and his administration say this is a measure only for war time. However, they constantly refer to this as an "constant" war. | |||
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Jomb Deddorokku Since: 12-03-05 From: purgatory Last post: 6468 days Last view: 6468 days |
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I'd rather live alittle dangerously than be secure, and am not willing to give up a single freedom.. so what country should i move to?  |
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Sabishii Red Paragoomba Since: 02-26-06 From: Georgia Last post: 6632 days Last view: 6632 days |
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Mattp - I realize it's not the people voting on it, however, if you take to the streets and ask, you'll find that a number of Americans don't know their rights and would hand them over for "security" and that a number don't know what the Patriot Act does and therefore approve of it by default. I've come across people that have never heard of it This is particularly true in our state 
I disagree with the idea of restrictions being stict during war times, however, that's what leads to stuff like the "Sedition" Acts in the 1700's and 1800's. The limitations should be stricter, but not very strict. The first they always crack down on is the first ammendment (speech, press, petition, religion, etc) which pretty much your ability to voice an opinion. That goes against the ideas on which the country was founded. That does bring up the question of whether or not we're at war though. We're at an awkward time as far as warefare goes, somewhat as Skydude said. It's somewhat like the American Civil War in which the technology had advanced and the war tactics had not. Napoleonic warfare was too outdated for the technology, which is where we had the birth of what became trench warfare. It's possible that, as Skydude stated, was as we knew it is over. Maybe this is the new face, I really don't know. I feel the way Jomb does though, I would rather risk some danger than lose my rights. Anti-Federalists fought like hell to get the Bill of Rights and the ability to amend the Constitution in there, and I have full intention of making use of every single right I have. I'm also willing to fight for that. The Declaration of Independence and the Consitution practucally mirror John Locke's Two Treatises on Government. One of the Treatises states that we have a responsibility, not a right, as citzens, to overthrow a government that does not please us or protect us as we wish it to. Such extreme measures are not yet needed, but If the invasion of privacy continues, I can easily see it leading to that. We didn't have the Revolutionary War and the Civil War for nothing, you know. |
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Schweiz oder etwas [12:55] (Dr_Death16); I swear, the word drama needs to be stricken from the dictionary, for I've heard it so many times, it will permanently be imprinted on my brain  Since: 11-17-05 From: Kingston, Rhode Island Last post: 6465 days Last view: 6465 days |
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| So has anyone actually read this thing yet? | |||
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Sinfjotle Lordly? No, not quite. Since: 11-17-05 From: Kansas Last post: 6467 days Last view: 6465 days |
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| Yeah, it's pretty much like the SAFE ACT. | |||
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Deleted User Banned    Since: 05-08-06 Last post: None Last view: 6466 days |
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| So some terrorists were recently arrested due to this dictator-like act. I would like you all to write and/or phone the targets of these individuals and tell them that you believe your civil rights are more important than their lives. They eagerly await! | |||
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Deleted User Banned Since: 05-08-06 Last post: None Last view: 6466 days |
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| If you provide me with an address, sure |
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| Acmlm's Board - I3 Archive - World Affairs/Debate - Patriot Act Senate Vote |
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