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| Acmlm's Board - I3 Archive - World Affairs/Debate - What is your Religion? |
New poll |  | Thread closed |
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What is your religion?| Christian |
36.2%, 21 votes | Jewish |
3.4%, 2 votes | Muslim |
3.4%, 2 votes | Hindu |
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0.0%, 0 vote | Neopagan |
1.7%, 1 vote | Wiccan |
3.4%, 2 votes | Other |
12.1%, 7 votes | Aetheist/Agnostic |
39.7%, 23 votes | Multi-voting is disabled. 58 users have voted.
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geeogree Red Cheep-cheep                 Since: 11-17-05 Last post: 6308 days Last view: 6294 days |
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thus my point about the agnostic vs atheistic.... they're VERY different... they shouldn't have been put together in the poll  |
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Sin Dogan   860  Uoodo Original Blend Armored Trooper Votoms Canned Coffee!    Since: 11-17-05 Last post: 6298 days Last view: 6297 days |
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Originally posted by Kutske Good question. I have an answer. The whole idea of misogyny is not supported by Islam. It's just another idea that carried on because of cultures that have inhabited the lands of the said followers. To true Muslims, women are highly revered. As opposed to men, women can bring life into this world and also the role of a mother is highly respected. Without a mother, there essentially can be no family. Women are to be treated better than men, which is very difficult for people to understand. And they are also not bound to anyone financially. A woman with a job is entitled to spend her money on anything she wishes, while men are supposed to support their family monetarily. Women are not objects for the satisfaction of men. They are strong, caring, and loving people that should be considered better than men in many cases. In the Qu'ran, there are very strong female characters such as the prophet's second wife(after his first died), A'ishah(R), who was very intelligent, and even a scholar, some might say. Khadijah(R), his first wife, was also full of wisdom and was a very successful merchant. The Prophet, on the other hand, was illiterate and regretted that. Also, I'd like to mention that even though Prophet Muhammad(S) had many wives, in terms of consummation, he remained monogamous. Other wives he had married to support financially or to give them a place to live or to give them care like his one wife that had Hansen's disease(leprosy). Yea, so women are like men except have the capacity to be better. However, people have been unable to let go the stereotypes and cultural beliefs of women in the world. The only thing is that people take extremes with certain beliefs(modesty of dress for example) and then those beliefs are carried by families, and disobeying them would mean disobeying their families. Unfortunately, as such, people are unable to exercise Islam in its true manner. After all, it is believed that nobody should be forced to be a part of Islam if they don't want to. The true way of figuring out what beliefs are right for you is to question yourself. Our only role as Muslims and conversion is to let people know the truth. As I am doing now. (Kinda went off topic) |
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neotransotaku Sledge Brother Liberated from school...until MLK day  Since: 11-17-05 From: In Hearst Field Annex... Last post: 6296 days Last view: 6294 days |
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Originally posted by Plus Sign Abominationhmm... this sounds better than adamantly believing a deity exists; i feel one does exist but yet we do not have the ability to comprehend. I think I'll start saying that nowOriginally posted by neotransotaku |
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Rom Manic Since: 12-18-05 From: Detroit, WHAT?! Last post: 6294 days Last view: 6294 days |
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| I'd like to point out how ironic it is that the Atheist/Agnostic option on the poll is black. Whether that was mentioned somewhere else is soemthing I didn't check.
Aside that, I don't believe God is our leader. We live our own life, and God made it that way. For us to use his teachings within the bible as a guide, and to lead our lives as we wish. If he is our creator, then why would he allow us to be evil? To corrupt and consume others wealth and do injustice towards our brethren? He gave us morals, and whether we choose to obey them is our choice. Not his. He will not smite you for doing an evil act, but if you do something evil, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven, unless you pray to God and be forgiven of your sin. That faith in Jesus will save you from an eternity of hell. |
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Zer0 Micro-Goomba Since: 02-17-06 From: Detroit Last post: 6657 days Last view: 6657 days |
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| I'm probably like a lot here, and was born and raised (not crazy bad) Lutheran and intend on staying. I still believe in what i was raised on, and the whole lutheran beliefs, but im not that religious anymore. It kind of fell out of me once i got into my last two years of high school where i started working crazy hours of the nite and was never home to go to church in the morning, or was but literally got home and was going to bed as my family left for church.
I wont ever back away from religion, its helped me calm down when im on a anger spree, but for now i just am not into the whole church thing. Id rather do it on my own time. |
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Skydude Armos Knight  Since: 02-18-06 From: Stanford, CA Last post: 6567 days Last view: 6567 days |
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| Faith alone for salvation? That seems to be one of the main issues of contention between Catholics and non-Catholic Christians. It's something that I've often struggled with myself, as a Catholic, in coming to terms with. In some ways it can be seen as a rather unimportant detail, but in others it's absolutely crucial in the determination of one's faith.
I'm sure we've all heard the phrase "actions speak louder than words" and agree that in many cases there's some truth to that. But is it really such in the case of religion? Perhaps it's partially due to some bitterness at the idea of someone who has sinned their whole life converting on their deathbed and receiving the same salvation as one who has led a pious life that some like to believe you have to prove your devotion by doing good works. Perhaps it is from here that the concept of Purgatory comes into play, as an alternative means to pay one's debt...but pay it one must. It really seems much more 'fair' than that example. But then, I have to doubt the system a bit due to a particular story in the bible. As a Catholic, I know the bible to some extent, but certainly can't quote verses. But anyone familiar probably knows the story of the farmer who hires men in the morning to work in his field. Later in the day he hires some more men to help. Later still, just a few hours before the end of the day, he hires more help. At the end of the day, all of the men receive the same wage. This is a parable told by Jesus for the apportionment of the same salvation to all who have worked, no matter how long they have done so. And it really makes me wonder. I know I didn't answer any questions, and perhaps raised a few more...but it's something good to think about for anyone who believes in some sort of Heaven. |
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geeogree Red Cheep-cheep Since: 11-17-05 Last post: 6308 days Last view: 6294 days |
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| but you have to remember... in that parable the men worked....
he didn't hire anyone at the 12th hour and pay them equally.... he paid those hired at the 11th hour the same as the ones that were there at the start of the day.... each person did some work |
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Skydude Armos Knight Since: 02-18-06 From: Stanford, CA Last post: 6567 days Last view: 6567 days |
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| Well, yes, each did some work, but the idea of salvation by good works tends to stress the amount of work and the degree of effort, not JUST that it's there. So while someone repenting on their deathbed is an extreme example, more common might be someone who repents in old age after a lifetime of greed and excess. Is it "fair" that they receive the same treatment as a man who's been charitable his whole life? Is that the right concept of equity anyway?
I don't know what the right answer is, but it's an interesting question. But yes, you do raise a good point. |
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Salmon Steak Octoballoon  Since: 02-11-06 From: Ohio University Last post: 6656 days Last view: 6656 days |
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So...which of the choices do I click on when I'm not sure anymore...?  |
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Tommathy Since: 11-17-05 From: Cloud Nine, Turn Left and I'm There~ Last post: 6294 days Last view: 6294 days |
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| If you aren't sure, you don't click on a choice....
and no, agnosticism doesn't mean "Uhh, I dunno", it means "it is unknowable". |
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Skydude Armos Knight Since: 02-18-06 From: Stanford, CA Last post: 6567 days Last view: 6567 days |
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| I do find it rather odd that Atheism and Agnosticism are put as the same choice. Perhaps it is merely in my role as a religious person, and my dealings with groups as such that brings me to this feeling, but I see a huge philosophical divide. Granted, they're about the same in their practice (that is, none) from the other groups, but philosophically, it's a huge difference.
At least in what I've dealt with (Which is likely the extremes, so I'm sorry if this offends), most people I have dealt with who are 'true atheists' tend to be just as self-righteous as the most adamant fundamentalists of any religion, profoundly proclaiming how they HAVE to be right and others must be wrong. It's a sort of faith in anti-faith. And it makes some sense that they would be that way, I suppose; if you believe there's no higher power, that makes man the absolute top of the pile, and I suppose there's some justification for pride if that's correct. True agnosticism, on the other hand, is in a way the ultimate in humility. You are saying there may be something out there, there may not, but you're not really sure what it is, if anything. It is saying that man knows little in these matters and it's hard to determine what truth, if any, is out there. In between, of course, is where you get a lot of people, including many who would call themselves atheists. They think there's something out there, but not a real defined or worshipable deity...but at the same time, that man is not the ultimate power. |
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Arwon Bazu Since: 11-18-05 From: Randwick, Sydney, NSW, Australia Last post: 6295 days Last view: 6295 days |
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| Agnosticism can also just mean you don't bloody care. | |||
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Tommathy Since: 11-17-05 From: Cloud Nine, Turn Left and I'm There~ Last post: 6294 days Last view: 6294 days |
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| No, you "don't care" is a form of naïveté or abstination. | |||
Snow Tomato Snap Dragon  Since: 12-31-05 From: NYC Last post: 6315 days Last view: 6300 days |
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Originally posted by Skydude But.. do you believe that they're wrong for proclaiming there is not a god? Because then it would just be a difference in opinion... and they're not being self-righteous or pushy. They're just believing what they want to believe.. and getting their belief out there. Isn't that what Jesus did? |
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Skydude Armos Knight Since: 02-18-06 From: Stanford, CA Last post: 6567 days Last view: 6567 days |
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| Apparently I wasn't quite clear in what I was trying to say, and for that I apologize.
One of the problems a lot of people, and in particular self-proclaimed atheists, have with religious fundamentalists is what they see as a lack of tolerance for other ideas. The idea put out there that there is this one truth, and it MUST be as these people see it, and anyone who believes otherwise is wrong. Contrast this with just simple faith, which says that you believe something in particular is right, but you're not about to go tell everyone they're wrong if they believe otherwise. What I'm trying to say is that many atheists who complain about the religious folk "shoving religion down their throats" will then do exactly the same with atheism to anyone else. Difference of opinion is "I think my belief is right...that's why it's my belief, let me explain why I believe this", whereas what I'm referring to could be seen as "I'm right, you're wrong, and I'm completely sure that you're wrong, so agree with me on this one". Difference of opinion leaves room for discussion. Complete fundamentalism, be it religious or antireligious, doesn't. |
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Arwon Bazu Since: 11-18-05 From: Randwick, Sydney, NSW, Australia Last post: 6295 days Last view: 6295 days |
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Originally posted by Tommathy No, agnosticism can mean seeing no need for a religion or a god in their lives, or indeed, an opinion about these things at all. Just doesn't even register on the radar or seem worth considering. |
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Kutske Since: 11-19-05 Last post: 6641 days Last view: 6641 days |
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Jin Dogan: Good question. I have an answer. [The rest of the post has been snipped out in this quotation, for space-saving reasons.] Before I proceed with my reaction to what you've said, based on what I've read of the qur'an and other Islamic teachings, can I ask for some quotations from Islamic holy texts that correspond to your claims? Because, looking through Wikipedia and a few other online resources, I'm having trouble finding anything relating to things such as women being able to spend their money as they please, and men having to spend their money foremostly on their family, and other things you claimed are Islamic teachings. Don't wanna jump to any conclusions, though, and I do recognize the difference in certain beliefs between different sects of Islam such as Sunni and Shi'a. |
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Skydude Armos Knight Since: 02-18-06 From: Stanford, CA Last post: 6567 days Last view: 6567 days |
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| Just a bit of a response to that, Kutske, is that it's not necessarily about what is in the holy texts...at least for some religions. I've not studied Islam, so they may have a requirement for just that. In Catholicism, anyway, a lot of the teachings do go back to the bible and such, but many were formed as traditions, and make their place through that. The same may be true for some of these. | |||
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Kutske Since: 11-19-05 Last post: 6641 days Last view: 6641 days |
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| I'm sure it is, but he said, "The whole idea of misogyny is not supported by Islam." That's utterly contradictory to everything I've ever learned about a woman's role in the Islamic world, and I've seen excerpts from - among books - the Quran to confirm this. Now, I don't for a minute doubt that Jin must come from a community that supports women in the way he claims, but my original question wasn't, "Jin -- how are women treated in your specific Muslim community?" The question was why Islam in general places women so low (what with the thirty-howevermany virgins promised to a man in his afterlife, among other examples). It can't all be blamed on extremists and cultural setting, most of it has to trace back to the core belief system.
Not that I'm here to vilify Islam or anything -- Christian and Jewish texts are equally terrible to women, it's just that since I live in a country with many Christians and Jews, I can see from firsthand experience that by and large, their misogyny has been abandoned and is attributed to customs and cultures of days gone past, with a focus being on the more positive things the Christian and Jewish texts promote, what with the charity and caring for the sick and needy, etc. I haven't been able to observe this sort of thing first-hand with regards to Islam - most of my knowledge comes from my own admitedly-loose understanding of the Quran and Islamic tradition - so I figured I'd take the opportunity to ask an actual Muslim straight up, "What's with the misogyny?" I'm more inclined to believe an individual's testimony (that is, Jin's) over the scholarly disambiguation of Islamic texts made by outside observers which, unfortunately, is all I've had access to up until this point, I just need him to elaborate and give examples. |
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geeogree Red Cheep-cheep Since: 11-17-05 Last post: 6308 days Last view: 6294 days |
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| actually.... Christianity is very accepting and well treating of women... it was when the catholics took over Christianity that women were put down into a lesser role
Jesus revered women. Treated them with respect (equally between men and women). |
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| Acmlm's Board - I3 Archive - World Affairs/Debate - What is your Religion? |
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