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| Acmlm's Board - I3 Archive - World Affairs/Debate - Norwegian and Danish embassies burned due to cartoons |
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windwaker Ninji i'm not judgemental, i'm cynical Lonely People of the World, Unite!                  Since: 12-27-05 Last post: 6494 days Last view: 6472 days |
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Originally posted by geeogree What the fuck are you talking about? Less than .01% of Muslims are terrorists. This is quite offensive, but nothing worth riotting over. How are you so insanely hateful to minorities sometimes, but other times you think that the minority is in total control over a group? I agree that the papers should be able to say whatever they want though. And I guess non-violent protest is okay too. But don't burn the embassies, idiots, you'll just make it worse. ;( |
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Wurl   Since: 11-17-05 Last post: 6506 days Last view: 6506 days |
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| Contrary to the ignorant, often racist argument, Islam is not a religion set on destruction of Western Civilization. Religion has always been used to "justify" and inspire wars, genocide, ect.. Remember the Crusades or the killing of Jews for rejection Christ? (edited by Wurl on 02-06-06 01:32 AM) |
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geeogree Red Cheep-cheep Since: 11-17-05 Last post: 6479 days Last view: 6465 days |
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| windwaker: way to pick up on something I said really early in this thread.
I know a very small number of muslims are terrorists. Where did I say that I was hateful towards minorities? I just disagree with most of what they want. There's a difference. Plus, in conjuction with what you quoted, true Christians don't do it, and neither are true muslims. The terrorists that perpetrate these acts shouldn't be called muslims. They should just be called terrorists. I bet that would (have) helped take the blame off of muslims in general and placed it more onto those actually commiting the acts. Wurl: do you not remember the wars the muslims waged against any people that did not accept their religion as true? They nearly conquered Europe in the process. And they killed many of the people that would not convert. Everyone is guilty of wrong doing. |
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Wurl Since: 11-17-05 Last post: 6506 days Last view: 6506 days |
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Originally posted by geeogree I was not using the previous post to justify militant Islam, but rather to explain my position. Besides, both Muslims and Christians killed pagans (Jew or otherwise). Both sides used religion to make imperialistic wars holy wars. That post hardly applies only to Christians. |
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Sin Dogan   860  Uoodo Original Blend Armored Trooper Votoms Canned Coffee! Since: 11-17-05 Last post: 6469 days Last view: 6468 days |
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Originally posted by geeogree If Islam back then was so centered around convert or die mentalities, then how come when Muslims had control of Jerusalem, Christianity, Islam, and Judaism prospered without discrimination or violence being an issue? The idea of everyone being guilty of wrong doing should not prevail over the idea that everyone is human and everyone can do good. Because it is true, after all. (edited by Jin Dogan on 02-06-06 01:52 AM) |
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Cynthia Uh-huh. Since: 11-17-05 From: LaSalle, Quebec, Canada Last post: 6465 days Last view: 6465 days |
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Originally posted by Jin Dogan Actually, there's nothing that specifically says he can't be drawn, it's just a rule that ended up evolving. The Koran says that "[Allah is] the originator of the heavens and the earth... [there is] nothing like a likeness of Him." That ended up being interpreted to mean that since there's nothing that can be considered a likeness of Allah/Muhammad, likenesses (like drawings) were forbidden. Granted, the general sentiment is that people shouldn't be drawing these pictures, but that's also an Islamic belief. The Danish papers may be offending them by printing the cartoons, but they also don't fall into the confines of Islamic law; it's free speech. I think most of us can agree that this incident is being taken WAY out of proportion by everyone involved, though. |
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Trapster King Dedede Since: 11-19-05 From: Sweden Last post: 6573 days Last view: 6465 days |
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Originally posted by Colin Yeah, thatīs what they said on the radio too. The most important muslims (Idunno if I get this right) have even condemned these violent actions. Islam isnīt a bad religion at all. Itīs only a very small part of the muslims who are extremists and theyīre giving Islam a bad name because of their actions. The news paper shouldnīt have published these pictures but these muslims that were ivolved in this incident shouldnīt have acted like they did either. |
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Ziff B2BB BACKTOBASICSBITCHES Since: 11-18-05 From: A room Last post: 6465 days Last view: 6465 days |
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| No, the papers SHOULD'VE published depictions of Muhammad in order to criticize the extremists of the faith. What they shouldn't have done was make these cartoons into racist slurs against Arabs that are all too reminisicent of Herr Streicher's paper in the 20s. | |||
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Sin Dogan 860 Uoodo Original Blend Armored Trooper Votoms Canned Coffee! Since: 11-17-05 Last post: 6469 days Last view: 6468 days |
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Originally posted by ColinOriginally posted by Jin Dogan Well the whole reason behind having no images of the prophet, God, or any other prophets/people mentioned in the Quran(and the Bible and Torah for that matter) is because people will end up attaching a belief to a face rather than an idea. The Quran isn't meant to be taken literally nor does it contain all matters pertaining to religion. It doesn't matter what they looked like, it matters what they did. |
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Cynthia Uh-huh. Since: 11-17-05 From: LaSalle, Quebec, Canada Last post: 6465 days Last view: 6465 days |
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| I still don't see what the big deal is. Again, I'm not saying they needed to do it, but the reactions around the world are making it a lot easier to take the side of the newspapers and of free speech.
I know that Islam is a peaceful religion, and I know that the majority of its members believe in peace... but this is not doing their religion any favors at all as far as public perception goes. |
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windwaker Ninji i'm not judgemental, i'm cynical Lonely People of the World, Unite! Since: 12-27-05 Last post: 6494 days Last view: 6472 days |
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Originally posted by geeogree Gee, geeogree, thanks, I completely forgot that Muslims tried to convert people and killed those that refused. I'll stick to Christianity, a religion completely innocent of this. _Ž |
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Imajin Bot Local Moderator Currently affected by 'No syndrome' ---!!!  Since: 12-05-05 From: Camineet, Palm Last post: 6466 days Last view: 6465 days |
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| I don't see why newspapers in Denmark, a country so not-Muslim that it has a cross on it's flag, should be required to care about the Islamic taboo against images of Mohammed. For that's what many of the protests I've read are about- not that some of the caricatures are offensive (certainly they weren't all that bad), but that Mohammed is portrayed at all.
To use a Christian example, if I recall some controversial artist had made a picture of a Crucifix submerged in urine, certainly an offensive image to many Christians, and there were protests. However, did the protests reach the level of the ones over the Jyllands-Posten cartoons? Definately not. |
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Sin Dogan 860 Uoodo Original Blend Armored Trooper Votoms Canned Coffee! Since: 11-17-05 Last post: 6469 days Last view: 6468 days |
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Originally posted by Imajin So because they don't have a high Muslim population, they can make fun of us?(I'm not saying that's their justification, but it sounds like Imajin's) Because people certainly don't give a shit when people from countries with crescents and stars on their flags talk bad about their people or religion. |
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Deleted User Banned    Since: 05-08-06 Last post: None Last view: 6466 days |
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| Didn't someone also do Madonna and Child in animal dung? | |||
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Imajin Bot Local Moderator Currently affected by 'No syndrome' ---!!! Since: 12-05-05 From: Camineet, Palm Last post: 6466 days Last view: 6465 days |
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Originally posted by Jin Dogan I'm not saying that- I'm saying it's the wrong justification. An image of Mohammed with a bomb for a turban is hateful, and should be condemned (though perhaps not to the point that it's been brought). But expecting non-Muslim nations to follow rules set by that religion is simply not right... |
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Snow Tomato Snap Dragon  Since: 12-31-05 From: NYC Last post: 6486 days Last view: 6471 days |
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| Attacking the makers, or publishers, of this cartoon defeats the purpose of condeming a sacriligious practice. The last time I checked, murdering people over a drawing wasn't considered very religious.
Of course the cartoons are searching for a reaction.. and they got one. I say shame on both parties. Because as much as I dislike the ignorant and instigative nature of these cartoons... I dislike anyone who would intentionally harm another human being just as equally. |
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windwaker Ninji i'm not judgemental, i'm cynical Lonely People of the World, Unite! Since: 12-27-05 Last post: 6494 days Last view: 6472 days |
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| You're talking about this morally or ethically, otherwise free speech says it's okay. | |||
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Snow Tomato Snap Dragon Since: 12-31-05 From: NYC Last post: 6486 days Last view: 6471 days |
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| But religion applies here.. as it's a religious issue. And when you're talking about religion.. it's assumed you're discussing morales.. as that falls under the category of religious issues.
I'm basically re-stating the fact that violence wasn't necessary. Especially because they're muslim, and violence isn't generally condoned in their religion.. just as in Christianity you're not supposed to be violent. Or, in any religion ever. But just as the violence wasn't necessary... neither were the cartoons. Muslims already have enough violence corrupting their religion.. it basically.. didn't need any more provoking as everyone is already on their case. As for free speech, sure you can say it. I can also call someone a whore, repeatedly. Is it smart? No. |
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Cynthia Uh-huh. Since: 11-17-05 From: LaSalle, Quebec, Canada Last post: 6465 days Last view: 6465 days |
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| I could see peaceful protests. If all the protests were peaceful and didn't have any violence associated with them, then they're getting out the message in a rational matter.
As soon as you see idiots on TV burning the Danish flag, however, you're crossing the line. |
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windwaker Ninji i'm not judgemental, i'm cynical Lonely People of the World, Unite! Since: 12-27-05 Last post: 6494 days Last view: 6472 days |
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Originally posted by Colin + are you kidding me The flag burning should be legal; it's NOTHING compared to the vandalism of the embassies. I think violence is as bad as it gets here. |
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