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| Acmlm's Board - I3 Archive - General Gaming - Blizzard apparently prohibits gay-friendly guilds in World of Warcraft |
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windwaker Ninji i'm not judgemental, i'm cynical Lonely People of the World, Unite!                  Since: 12-27-05 Last post: 6329 days Last view: 6307 days |
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| http://www.innewsweekly.com/innews/?class_code=Ga&article_code=1172
Christian guilds, however, are fine. Some people on the Diablo/Starcraft dev team were gay, though, heh. |
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Wurl  Since: 11-17-05 Last post: 6341 days Last view: 6341 days |
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| I hate homophobes. | |||
Tzepish UFO  Since: 11-21-05 From: Redmond, WA Last post: 6356 days Last view: 6356 days |
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| Wow.
"This category includes both clear and masked language which insultingly refers to any aspect of sexual orientation pertaining to themselves or other players." I don't see any insults. Is Blizzard claiming that "Homosexual" or "gay" is an insult? |
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Koitenshin +∞ Moblin Since: 12-24-05 From: Misery Last post: 6302 days Last view: 6302 days |
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Apparently being comfortable with one's sexuality is now an insult to one's self. How's that for an oxymoron?  |
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Alastor Fearless Moderator Hero  Since: 11-17-05 From: An apartment by DigiPen, Redmond, Washington Last post: 6299 days Last view: 6299 days |
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| Did you even read the article, Koi? | |||
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Kailieann Since: 11-18-05 Last post: 6299 days Last view: 6299 days |
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| *shakes head in disgust*
They better hurry up and make Starcraft 2 so I can buy it and then start boycotting them. |
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C:/xkas bio.asm Compiled ASM code  Since: 11-17-05 Last post: 6300 days Last view: 6299 days |
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Originally posted by Kailieann QFT |
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Sinfjotle Lordly? No, not quite.  Since: 11-17-05 From: Kansas Last post: 6301 days Last view: 6300 days |
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 I'm wondering who reported them. |
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Kutske Since: 11-19-05 Last post: 6647 days Last view: 6647 days |
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| Blizzard isn't homophobic, neither is World of Warcraft, they're simply taking preventative measures. I mean, let's face it, 90% of the population of any online game consists of immature pricks whose only joy in life is getting a rouse out of other people via the internet, and being gay is something that is utmostly reprehensible to them. Making a "GLBT friendly" guild is just asking to be insulted. It'd be like me going to the DNC message board and posting a lengthy topic about how much I love Bush -- sure, I'm saying that I like him and I'm not insulting anyone, but in the process, I'm stirring up a hornet's nest. In the end, World of Warcraft is an adventure game and discussion of one's sexuality, regardeless of what it is, has no place. They made the sensible descision.
Hmm, I wonder though, are you allowed to have a homosexual character on a Roleplaying server? |
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Kasumi-Astra Flurry Since: 11-18-05 From: Sheffield England Last post: 6299 days Last view: 6299 days |
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| It's clearly asking to be insulted now that Blizzard has made it's intentions clear. It's simple, don't ask, don't tell because we don't want to deal with the trouble you will inevitably cause. Blizzard thought they were acting in the best interests of all parties, but spectacularly failed. It's insensitive and ignorant of the feelings, freedoms and inteligence of the GLBT communities. What's even worse is the amount of completely dim-witted comments being hurled around by insecure opinionated posters in the US forums.
I've been standing my ground since page one in the European forums, and if you want to know what I think of all this, pop along and read what I've written. I've dealt with enough ignorant asshats for one weekend, and I'm pretty much too pooped to explain myself yet again to people who don't deserve it. So come one, come all to see Kasumi in a really bad mood arguing with morons! (My screen name is Emony) |
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Xkeeper Took the board down in a blaze of glory, only to reveal how truly moronical ||bass is. Since: 11-17-05 From: Henderson, Nevada Last post: 6300 days Last view: 6300 days |
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| Kutske said it perfectly, they'd be setting themselves up for insulting...
Of course, I would've just let it go. As long as they know they're going to be harassed for it, it's their problem... |
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Kasumi-Astra Flurry Since: 11-18-05 From: Sheffield England Last post: 6299 days Last view: 6299 days |
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| X, just because there inevitably would be insults flying around, it doesn't mean it's anything like going out looking for them. Founding a GLBT friendly guild was intended to provide a way for everyone to come together to play in an environment where everyone can feel safer, straight, les, gay, bi and trans.
This originally started out as a simple, honest attempt at making a quiet, friendly place to play where everyone can play without a fuss. It seems that that's all anyone expects and now it's what it's turned into. Who cares what people think of what they wanted or expected to achieve with the guild? They weren't a threat to anyone and now it's all ruined because of over-opinionated people. All these guilds want is to be left in peace. They're well aware of the potential problems with other players, and they do their best to ignore silly comments or insults. They've spent most of their lives laughing it off. They didn't expect any recrimination from Blizzard and all the resulting attention in the forums though. Sad, very sad. |
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Ziff B2BB BACKTOBASICSBITCHES Since: 11-18-05 From: A room Last post: 6299 days Last view: 6299 days |
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| That's actually really depressing.
That is all. I'm with what Kasumi said |
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Kutske Since: 11-19-05 Last post: 6647 days Last view: 6647 days |
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Kasumi-Astra: It's clearly asking to be insulted now that Blizzard has made it's intentions clear. It's simple, don't ask, don't tell because we don't want to deal with the trouble you will inevitably cause. Blizzard thought they were acting in the best interests of all parties, but spectacularly failed. It's insensitive and ignorant of the feelings, freedoms and inteligence of the LGBT communities. What's even worse is the amount of completely dim-witted comments being hurled around by insecure opinionated posters in the US forums. The offenders should be reported then, and no matter what, the bottom line is that sexuality has no place in a computer game like World of Warcraft. Mr. X: Kutske said it perfectly, they'd be setting themselves up for insulting... Of course, I would've just let it go. As long as they know they're going to be harassed for it, it's their problem... The only thing troublesome about doing that is that making discriminatory comments is against the ToS and as I said, the userbase is widely immature on any online game. Potentially, half of all online users could end up banned because of the controversy stirring over this LGBT-friendly guild. Also note that the term "LGBT-friendly" in itself suggests that other guilds are not LGBT-friendly, which I hardly believe is true. Social/political guilds have always seemed backwards and inflamatory to me, anyway; make a guild of all mages, make a guild for you and your friends, make a guild for dwarves, because those are all in-game things, but please, don't make a guild for Republicans, don't make a guild for pro-lifers, don't make a guild for Christians -- there's just no reason for it and it only results in flames and controversy. And in the larger scope of things, I'm sick of special interest groups and their ilk turning every little thing into a controversy and a culture war. Homophobe, racist, sexist -- these terms have become meaningless because of how casually they're thrown around by the "politically correct" in an opportunistic bid for sympathy. It's a game. On the internet. Sticks and stones. Kasumi-Astra: Founding a GLBT friendly guild was intended to provide a way for everyone to come together to play in an environment where everyone can feel safer, straight, les, gay, bi and trans. This is nonsense logic because World of Warcraft =! real life and World of Warcraft =! a political forum. The purpose of the game is to take on the role of an adventurer in a world of fantasy where you can explore vast realms, interact with mythical beings and do battle with monsters and opposing faction members. There is absolutely, positively no reason whatsoever that issues need to be brought in from the real world -- this is supposed to be fantasy, afterall. This isn't specific to the LGBT community; a Black Pride guild or a Foot Fetishists guild are equally as inapropriate. There isn't a need to create a "friendly, safe environment" either. Yes, many players on WoW (and every other online game, most message boards and most junior high schools nationwide, for that matter) use "gay" as a generic insult ("Killstealing? That's so gay!") but that's because the word has different meaning to them -- it's just a loanword for "lame" or "unfair" or what have you, and while I don't approve of the use of the term, they aren't using it in a homophobic context. The reason that LGBT groups are needed in real life is because in real life there is a real threat to the lives of the homosexual and transsexual (and to a lesser extent, the bisexual); there's people out there who might actually, physically attack you or make an attempt on your life. In World of Warcraft, there is nowhere near the same level of a threat, and I actually think it's belittling to real LGBT groups to act as if an LGBT guild in an online game is anywhere near as daring or brave as in real life. Once again, the bottom line is, sexuality has no place in World of Warcraft, end of story. |
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Kasumi-Astra Flurry Since: 11-18-05 From: Sheffield England Last post: 6299 days Last view: 6299 days |
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| Like hell it's the end of the story. You've summed up what you think faces a GLBT guild as if you're the expert and then declared yourself weener. If GLBT people think they'd like to get together to play, then that's their choice. They have reasons that they haven't explained to you, and they aren't obligated in any way to justify that to you. Blizzard have already stated that they have no problem with GLBT guilds, just that they're not allowed to mention it in General Chat. But how does this affect everywhere else? What if someone says they're going out with their boyfriend or girlfriend? Everyone's entitled to that BUT if someone opinionated takes offense then they get a warning from Blizzard.
They can also get kicked out of guilds for just being gay, hell you can be treated like scum by your guild for just being a Girl. In Europe, you can get kicked from a raid or a guild just for speaking english. Even the word Lesbian is banned from the european forums. So you can be called "Homo" and "Fag", but you can't use the word that you feel best describes you. NOW tell me Blizzard's attitude to the GLBT community doesn't need addressing. (edited by Kasumi-Astra on 01-30-06 07:47 AM) |
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GeckoYamori Koopa  Since: 11-25-05 Last post: 6315 days Last view: 6300 days |
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Uh, no. Unless you play on the alternate german and french servers for those who prefer to use their native language. |
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Trapster King Dedede Since: 11-19-05 From: Sweden Last post: 6407 days Last view: 6300 days |
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Originally posted by Kasumi-Astra I donīt have to read those logs. I can imagine how it is and itīs really sad. I think itīs great when people stand up for who and what they are. They have a certain place in our world but unfortunately, the society these days canīt see that. They donīt know what les, gay, bi and trans people are going through, having all these insults aimed at them. I think that Blizzard should prepare themselves to lose a large amount of players because of their opinions towards gay-friendly guilds. "Everyone's entitled to that BUT if someone opinionated takes offense then they get a warning from Blizzard. They can also get kicked out of guilds for just being gay, hell you can be treated like scum by your guild for just being a Girl." Bah. Thatīs just stupid. You have a really good point there, Kas. |
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Kasumi-Astra Flurry Since: 11-18-05 From: Sheffield England Last post: 6299 days Last view: 6299 days |
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Originally posted by GeckoYamoriUh, no. Unless you play on the alternate german and french servers for those who prefer to use their native language. The forums won't let me search for threads at the moment, but dig through and you will find a thread about Skullcrusher (I think). Certain servers in WoW have been adopted as "unofficial" servers for many countries that do not have dedicated WoW servers. Barrens Chat on skullcrusher is pretty much all spanish, even though it's an English Realm. The problems with grief from Spanish players are complained about a lot too. Serial ganking, kicking from guilds and raides, insults in spanish have all been reported. My guild moved in a migration from Warsong to Twilight's Hammer because of the Russians doing more-or-less the same thing. I guess that worked out in the end, because I'm now in Sofie and Jiz's alt guild 
Anyway, here's my latest post for you to read, Enjoy: I've abstained from posting Sunday to wait for a blue reply today. I'm not suprised at the result and it's disappointing. I'm contemplating writing a letter to Blizzard sometime this week to make some suggestions and pose some questions. After having a while to think things over, here are a few points of concern: This incident, along with all the resulting fuss in the forums, especially the US forums has negated any possible good effect to be gained from Blizzard's policy. Many people have responded to the questions and the requests of people who wanted to make their feelings known to Blizzard with insult, preconceived ideas and even outright mockery. Many people in the US forums have not had the time to read up on the situation and have assumed that the guild in question was descriminating against heterosexual people by being GLBT only. The worse this became, the more opinionated people were and the more offensive the topic became. One forum troll even posted a thread saying that they were filing a lawsuit against Blizzard for a violation of their rights. Some pointed out that this was blatently bogus, though many continued to argue that all minorities are trying to corrupt World of Warcraft and the world in general by trying to win money for their own ends. I just can't read any of the topics in the US forum. How one person can be warned for uttering a four letter acronym, yet the so many posters on the forum are allowed to make untrue and hurtful comments is completely beyond me. Second is Blizzard's heavy handed response and "case closed" attitude. It seems that Blizzard has made this policy without even consulting the GLBT community for feedback or advice. This isn't just unique to this incident, it's the case in many other issues. One of those issues is with account suspension. I can appreciate the merits of having a zero tollerance policy with people who cheat outright, but this is far from Sara's supposed offence. The TOS state that Blizzard can interpret whatever it likes as harrassment or offence, but I simply don't believe that it is fair or just to penalise a person for something that is not clearly defined in the TOS, then refuse appeal. Blizzard have made no individual effort to consult GLBT players, or reassure them in any way that they need not worry about any warnings in the future. Third, in relation to the last point is with the TOS. Blizzard can interpret anything as harrassment, and they can punish a player as they see fit. I feel that this is unfair particularly in Sara's situation as the TOS do not offer any explicit restrictions on what may be said on the online chanels and where. If any unamgiuous rules were laid down, then Sara would probably have complied and none of this would've happened. At the very least, GLBT communties and players would be able to contact Blizzard directly to object to the TOS and campeign to have them changed. The TOS must be explicit and unambiguous if players are to have any clear understanding and to feel confident that they will not break any rules or attract unwanted attention. This also applies to what can be referenced or said. Are girls allowed to say they have girlfriends, are boys allowed to say they have boyfriends? If so, where? Fourth, Blizzard should adhere to their policy and set an example when it comes to using the terms "gay", "fag" and "homo" in-game. WoW should not be a place where this can happen freely and mildly punished. Reporting alone does not support this rule and I feel Blizzard should actively pursue those who use this language freely and innappropriately. This also goes for better moderation of the forums, and discouraging infactual and pre-conceived beliefs. Fifth, the situation on the forums shows that many people are still not accustomed to people in the gay community. We're not interested in discussing our sex lives in general chat, and we're most certainly not going to discuss them with you. In fact, we're only interested in refering to our partners in-game as you would yours. I'm going out tonight with my girlfriend. I have a boyfriend. We all discuss these personal issues in small talk in guild chat and whispers, homosexual and heterosexual players. You'll probably never encounter a gay player that ever mentions it at all. Players of the GLBT community have a right to come together and play just as you do, and just want to be left in peace. The problem we have at the moment is that we just don't know where we stand with what we're allowed to do in-game. As you can see from the experience with the forums, using forums to recruit for a GLBT friendly guild is perhaps not a good idea. I'd most likely start a web community first and recruit completely outside the WoW community, but many are concerned that they won't be able to support a community without a supportive set of guidelines and rules from Blizz. You can't say we're trying to bring politics into a virgin community. Sexual orientation is something that is built into everything you are, and the only politics involved are those that determine what we should or should not be allowed to say or do. The GLBT friendly guilds are just that- a GLBT friendly atmosphere where people of all different walks of life can play without any grief brought against them. It's an inclusive society that promotes tolerance and friendship. Lastly, I don't believe that Blizzard have mentioned any policy on transgenderism and gender identity. Make no mistake, gender identity is completely different and seperate from sexual preference. I'll assume for now that there isn't any. Although many transpeople have the same issues as gay people, you'll probably never be able to tell a transman or transwoman from their genetic counterparts online, because the only thing that is different about them is the sex they were born as. In every other aspect, they are who they appear to be. Even so, they can still face some grief online. I've never heard of any grief from a transperson, although they are just as concerned about these events as the rest of the GLB community. There you go then, I hope I've said something that every person can learn a little from. We've got our answer, albeit it's a very lazy and insensitive one. I don't wish to justify myself or GLBT people as a whole any more in here, and I think the thread should be closed. Blizzard are in contact with the GLBT community over this, and I think a statement is being made to one of the big publications that broke the story last weekend. I'll be supporting any efforts that people make to educate Blizzard and I'll be supporting Blizzard in learning how not to make such a big mistake in the future. I still love playing WoW, I still think it's the most important and amazing thing to happen in gaming this decade, and I'll be playing it until the realms slowly die. Now, Blizz, one more question I demand you answer... When can I have a universal binary of World of Warcraft for my iMac? :-) |
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Snow Tomato Snap Dragon  Since: 12-31-05 From: NYC Last post: 6320 days Last view: 6306 days |
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| I've read every line of this entire thread.. and I don't want to sound insensitive, but it's a videogame.
It's just pixels. I'm 100% behind the GLBT's community.. all the time. I hate intolerance and I hate discrimination. My best guy friend is gay, and plays WoW actually. I understand the discrimination that GLBT's face every day in the world. He's been beat up, he's been called names.. his father isn't on good terms with him. Trust me, it's complete and total injustice. People will be ignorant. But it's a videogame.. you're supposed to go on there and uh, do whatever they do in WoW. Guilds, I can understand you guys want to talk to each other. I think you should be able to talk freely among the members of your guild. Not too explicit, but just general things like "I'm going to see my girlfriend later" seems reasonable. I can't imagine Blizzard would bar a membership for saying that in the game.. that would be ridiculous. But.. don't take it too seriously. It's WoW. Just pixels. I guess I agree with Kutske. I do think Blizzard was a bit harsh in the statements... but in general.. you have got to realize that it's just a game. |
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Wurl Since: 11-17-05 Last post: 6341 days Last view: 6341 days |
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| This thread makes me feel like some gay secks. |
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| Acmlm's Board - I3 Archive - General Gaming - Blizzard apparently prohibits gay-friendly guilds in World of Warcraft |
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