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| Acmlm's Board - I3 Archive - General Emulation - Bsnes (Snes emulators) |
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Disch Red Cheep-cheep                    Since: 12-10-05 Last post: 6600 days Last view: 6600 days |
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Originally posted by Arty Is that you Marty? Perhaps I phrased that wrong. In fact I somewhat regret saying it now... it looks like I was putting NEStopia down, which I really wasn't trying to do (it's a great emu -- my fav existing one, in fact). Perhaps this will better portray my stance: bsnes is a snes emu that takes about a ~2.0 GHz machine to run. Nintendulator is a nes emu that takes about a ~1.4 GHz machine to run. They both have high system requirements to do the bare minimum work. They both lack the bells and whistles which are often taken for granted in other "general play" emus. They both operate on a cycle-by-cycle basis, keeping each subsystem in sync (though I'm not 100% sure with bsnes as I haven't really checked its source yet -- though I know Nintendulator employs no "catch up" method to sync subsytems -- rather it continually runs them all in sync). Nintendulator also goes as far as to track the last values on the bus, all those other weird sprites quirks (like the 9th sprite fetch) which probably don't affect any game at all. Plus it's constantly being updated as Q uncovers new things. Hell I remember for a while it was being updated several times a day. Now turn to NEStopia -- which I'm not saying isn't as good as Nintendulator/bsnes -- I'm just saying it's a different kind of emu. While it may be built for accuracy, it was not built solely for accuracy (I don't know if I'm making sound like it makes any sense...). NEStopia is geared up and optimized in ways which make it a lot more usable for the casual emulator user. Now that's not a bad thing -- but that's not what Nintendulator/bsnes seem to be wanting to do. So that's why I say Nintendulator is better suited for the analogy. Not because Nintendulator is "better"... but because it seems to be more like the NES version of bsnes. |
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Arty Newcomer Since: 01-11-06 Last post: 6724 days Last view: 6724 days |
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Yeah, it's me, but no problem Disch. I know what you're getting at. Just wanted to clarify that I myself favour accuracy over speed. Doesn't neccesarily mean I can't optimize what's left though.  |
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DarkPhoenix Red Goomba Since: 12-27-05 Last post: 6325 days Last view: 6325 days |
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| Bit of a problem with using System RAM | |||
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byuu Newcomer Since: 01-11-06 Last post: 6575 days Last view: 6575 days |
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| I use a cheap trick with the DirectDraw renderer to speed things up. Basically, I get a 10-20% performance increase in 32-bit mode by always creating a 16-bit surface. When using video memory, your video card automatically converts the surface to 32-bit mode for display, with zero overhead. However, when you are in 32-bit mode and you transfer from system memory, this conversion does not happen and you end up with a "smashed" image like in your screenshot.
It's unfortunate, but the next version of bsnes also supports an optional Direct3D renderer, and with it supports the ability to use point filtering (read: big blocks, no interpolation), among other neat things. Also, transferring from system RAM is painfully slow when you resize the window above 256x223. It gets slower and slower as you up the window size. As for accuracy, the one major thing bsnes doesn't do is run the PPU in synchronization to the CPU. It "catches up" once every scanline. It's unfortunate, but with a power requirement of 2ghz already... this added push would put it out of the hands of nearly every personal computer on the planet. I also can't really break down the CPU / APU instructions anymore than cycles, breaking it down to raw clocks would be near impossible. However, I do *somewhat* split the read / write cycles in half to account for bus hold times, but that doesn't work across processors. So, basically bsnes is most likely the most accurate SNES emulator, but there's still a long way to go. You also have to figure that bsnes is relatively new, and has many major bugs that other emulators do not. It also doesn't support many special chips, so games like Star Fox, Mario Kart, Mario RPG, Yoshi's Island, etc. won't run at all. |
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MathOnNapkins  1100  In SPC700 HELL Since: 11-18-05 Last post: 6321 days Last view: 6320 days |
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| I'm not sure of the specifics, but couldn't a technique like Dynamic recompilation help out any of the speed involved? You lose a lot of cycles converting all those nonnative instructions. | |||
HyperHacker Star Mario Finally being paid to code in VB! If only I still enjoyed that. <_< Wii #7182 6487 4198 1828 Since: 11-18-05 From: Canada, w00t! My computer's specs, if anyone gives a damn. STOP TRUNCATING THIS >8^( Last post: 6321 days Last view: 6321 days |
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Yes, but it would make the super-accuracy it's meant for impossible. You can't really execute SNES instructions down to the individual cycles when you aren't even executing SNES instructions.  |
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Stifu Since: 11-18-05 From: Your mom's bed Last post: 6323 days Last view: 6320 days |
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Originally posted by insectduel Your stupidity never ceases to amaze me. On a side note, SNESGT is also a good SNES emulator. It seems to emulate Super Mario Kart perfectly, while Snes9x and ZSNES don't. |
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MathOnNapkins 1100 In SPC700 HELL Since: 11-18-05 Last post: 6321 days Last view: 6320 days |
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Originally posted by HyperHacker With all the processing it takes to handle each instruction you're looking at a ratio of at least 8 Intel cycles to every 1 Snes Cpu cycle. Not to mention you also have to emulate the SPC700, and the PPUs, the DSP, and the address bus, etc. The one thing you might not be able to do is interrupt in the middle of an instruction, since it would be running natively. But, I suppose there could be a workaround for that... |
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Disch Red Cheep-cheep Since: 12-10-05 Last post: 6600 days Last view: 6600 days |
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Originally posted by StifuOriginally posted by insectduel Just think... if NES emu developers thought that way, we'd all still be stuck with NESticle. **shudders** |
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asdf Link's Awakening ಠ_ಠ  Since: 11-18-05 Last post: 6322 days Last view: 6321 days |
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| NESticle did have its flaws, though. Sound, for example, was a big one. Granted, these flaws may have encouraged others to make emulators that fixed these problems. But what are you going to do.
Oh yes, and it's nice to have an SNES emulator that can finally run Earthworm Jim 2 with no problems. Earthworm Jim worked fine for me in one version of ZSNES WIP (0519, I believe), but EWJ2 has never worked on any emu. Now, if only Stunt Race FX was emulated perfectly...that'd be all the games from my childhood completely functional on emulators. (edited by asdf on 01-14-06 11:59 PM) |
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Ailure Mr. Shine I just want peace...  Since: 11-17-05 From: Sweden Last post: 6321 days Last view: 6320 days |
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| Ok, after seeing a screenshot with it being able to render the Simearth map perfectly (Which ZSNES dosen't, and while SNES9X does... I kind of don't like how SNES9X do things). I think i'm going to give it a try.
It probably wouldn't go fast at all on this system, but i 'm going to play around with it... Edit: Yeah, it does stutter alot on my three years old computer. It's somewhat playable with frameskip. It's very accurate though! (edited by Ailura on 01-15-06 12:19 PM) |
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FreeDOS + Giant Red Koopa Legion: freedos = fritos  Since: 11-17-05 From: Seattle Last post: 6320 days Last view: 6320 days |
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Well this accuracy-bent idea seems nice, but something went wrong 
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Kailieann Since: 11-18-05 Last post: 6320 days Last view: 6320 days |
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| This was covered by the program's creator nine posts up. | |||
Raccoon Sam Boomerang Brother Custom Title  Since: 11-20-05 From: Correct Last post: 6321 days Last view: 6321 days |
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| Yeah.
That BSNES came to Mac too. So accurate that makes me cry. Awesome indeed. |
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| Acmlm's Board - I3 Archive - General Emulation - Bsnes (Snes emulators) |
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