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| Acmlm's Board - I3 Archive - General Emulation - [non-public domain/free] ROMs, legality, and ethics/morals |
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Jomb Deddorokku                  Since: 12-03-05 From: purgatory Last post: 6312 days Last view: 6312 days |
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| Its not a perfect analogy, but what if you did'nt get a new paint job, just bought an old house, should you have to pay for the old paint job again? Or re-pay the architect who designed the house? Have to pay each seperately for each person living in the house, or who visits? If i gave you my old car, should you have to pay a stipend to everyone involved in making the car and anyone who did repair work on it? People who make intellectual property should get paid nicely WHILE THEY ARE WORKING. Not for over a 100 years after the fact. | |||
Crashman Grizzo     Since: 12-26-05 From: Maine Last post: 6346 days Last view: 6346 days |
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| Only have copies of roms when you own the Cart. Its that simple. Anyhitng else, is a technicality of stealing. All the roms I own are also sitting in a large zerox box in my closet. Gamestop is good like that. Try a rom out, then delete the damned thing. Go buy teh Cart, then download it again. That way, your legal. | |||
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Kailieann Since: 11-18-05 Last post: 6309 days Last view: 6309 days |
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Originally posted by Crashman No you're not. 1. Distribution of ROMs by any means is illegal 2. Downloading ROMs from any source is illegal, whether you delete them or not 3. Downloading ROMs from any source is illegal, whether you own the original game or not You are legally entitled to create a ROM for backup purposes in case anything happens to the original game, but you must purchase the original game first, and you must dump the ROM yourself. And technically speaking, you can't legally use the ROM unless something happens to the hard copy. Furthermore, there are no grounds for legally modifying ROMs, regardless of how you came across them. Not that that stops anyone. I'm just saying. (edited by Kailieann on 12-26-05 12:05 PM) |
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FreeDOS + Giant Red Koopa Legion: freedos = fritos  Since: 11-17-05 From: Seattle Last post: 6309 days Last view: 6309 days |
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| Crashman, that makes me wonder considering you mispelt Xerox.
Legally, I thought you're allowed to do whatever you want to a ROM, provided you're the one that dumped it (or somehow got unlikely permission to get it by other means). |
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Rydain Sir Kibble Blaze Phoenix Runs with the Dragon Within  Since: 11-18-05 From: State College, PA Last post: 6314 days Last view: 6310 days |
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I agree with everything you said except for one statement. To answer FreeDOS' response, a hacked ROM is a derivative work. Since the copyright holder has the exclusive right to create derivative works, hacking ROM's violates copyright law if done without the copyright holder's permission. I doubt anybody gives a rat's ass about prosecuting it, but legally speaking, unauthorized derivative works are a no-no.
Originally posted by KailieannWhy is that? I would think that a ROM dump you created yourself is a format shift analogous to mp3's ripped from CD's that you own. I would be awfully pissed if I were Breaking The Law (tm) because I listen to mp3's at the gym while the original CD's gather dust in my house. |
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Sliver X Since: 11-22-05 From: Panicus Last post: 6319 days Last view: 6317 days |
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| Homebrew ROMs are completely legal; there's nothing a company can say about them, unless it does something to bypass some kind of copy protection mechanism, which could potentially fall under the DMCA.
There are also once commercial games that have been given to the public domain/freewared by the copyright holders; Elite for NES is one game I can think of off the top of my head that falls under this category. Once again, unless there's some kind of distribution limitations attached to the release of a game, you can download these with impunity, because it's totally legal. Also, though Nintendo battled in the courts to outlaw copiers, to varying sucess, dumping a copy of a game you own will also result in a legal ROM, so long as you don't distribute it, and destroy the copy if you sell/give away the original media. This falls under Fair Use, which sadly is a concept being raped by the music and movie studios of late. ROM hacking, on the other hand, it a very grey area. I'm not so sure if it's the actual hacking that's of shady legality, or the fact that you probably have a copy of a game you don't own yourself that you're hacking. IPS files *should* be legal, because it only contains changes made by the hacker. However, as a previous post said, ripping sprites and such from other games and pasting them in is most definitely some kind of copyright/trademark infringement. Expanding a ROM will also tend to put original code into an IPS file, so you're distributing code that's still protected under copyright. Why, I'm not very sure. |
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Cynthia Uh-huh. Since: 11-17-05 From: LaSalle, Quebec, Canada Last post: 6309 days Last view: 6309 days |
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| Zero Tolerance for the Genesis would be another. There's a few MAME roms which were released as well, either by the author or because the copyrights no longer applied. | |||
HyperHacker Star Mario Finally being paid to code in VB! If only I still enjoyed that. <_< Wii #7182 6487 4198 1828 Since: 11-18-05 From: Canada, w00t! My computer's specs, if anyone gives a damn. STOP TRUNCATING THIS >8^( Last post: 6310 days Last view: 6310 days |
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Originally posted by Sliver X Or if it contains copyrighted data.  This is the Gameboy's main security feature - it only boots ROMs which have the Nintendo logo in their header, and I think the image is copyrighted. That means to get your game to work, it has to contain the copyrighted logo image.(edited by HyperHacker on 12-28-05 06:41 AM) |
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insectduel Lantern Ghost Not welcome here anymore.  Since: 11-18-05 From: Bronx, New York Last post: 6552 days Last view: 6347 days |
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| What you said regardless of owning the real game while you downloading an illegial ROM is quite pointless. I'd better remove that rule from my site.
The hack that you are downloading must be the game that you already own. That ROM must be deleted within 24 hours or less if you do not own the original cartridge. The IPS patch can be kept in your PC as long as you like. That rule is for Non-ROM hackers only. Yeah that rule is so stupid I do not why I posted here on my website. I'd better replace it with another illegial rule that prevent people from breaking my rules or leave my disclaimer alone. The IPS patch must not be sold in any way. |
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||bass Administrator  Since: 11-17-05 From: Salem, Connecticut Last post: 6310 days Last view: 6309 days |
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Originally posted by insectduelNO. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. N-O. To this day I have no idea where that stupid rediculous myth came from. That 24-hour rule is a big giant pile of grade-A BULLSHIT. If you don't own the game, you can't legally have the rom. Period. Not for 24 hours, not for 24 seconds. Not at all. |
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DarkSlaya   930 Gamma Ray  Since: 11-17-05 From: Montreal, Canada Last post: 6310 days Last view: 6309 days |
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Originally posted by ||bass Even if this became a law, nobody would respect it. And it's impossible to prove for how much time the file has been on your computer, so yeah, this is retarded. |
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ShadowTails Grizzo  Since: 11-20-05 From: C:\My Documents\ShadowTails\My House\My Room Last post: 6331 days Last view: 6309 days |
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| ok... Why are we even disscussing this?
If we own or hack roms, Why discuss legality? Its not like these companies are losing any money from things that they don't produce anymore, nintendo wont even help you out if you have a product that has been purchased 6 months after the day you got it accourding to the DS manual... as far as I see it, break the law for roms... I know nintendo knows we hack roms, there latest text reads in Mario and luigi partners in time, "we haxor..." quoted by the hammer bros. when the shroobs had brainwashed them... I can only guess that nintendo is trying to make this even more public... Now seriously, if a man dressed up in a mario suit comes up to your door and destroys your PC then you should stop, not to mention that would be the day, check for nintendo logos and such as well... |
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insectduel Lantern Ghost Not welcome here anymore. Since: 11-18-05 From: Bronx, New York Last post: 6552 days Last view: 6347 days |
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| Do you ever read the damn instruction manual at the back of the book. I think we all know that we copying or making any game illlegialy. | |||
LocalH Paragoomba Since: 11-20-05 Last post: 6548 days Last view: 6548 days |
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| That doesn't mean anything - what's important is only what the law says. For example, Nintendo maintains that all copying is illegal, when we all know that personal copying is legal - for example, I can't redistribute, but I can make endless private copies. Nintendo maintains that unauthorized emulation is 100% illegal, when that is blatantly false (homebrew ROMs are 100% legal to run in an emulator). | |||
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ShadowTails Grizzo Since: 11-20-05 From: C:\My Documents\ShadowTails\My House\My Room Last post: 6331 days Last view: 6309 days |
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| Only thing I am trying to say is....
(The following Caps doesn't mean screaming its trying to get a point across...) WE ALL KNOW ROMS ARE ILLEGAL IN SOME WAY OR FORM.... SO WHY KEEP BICKERING OVER IT? In this topic we have seen the word Illegal... A lot!... so why talk about it? whats the point? what good will it do? we have proved every wrong, and righted the rights... we know what "Legal" and "illegal" so why can't we just stop talking about it, come on people... we all know... so can these topics stop? this community started around rom hacking...(well it says it did) So, In conclusion.... I think we know.... ROMS are Illegal... But some people in this topic keep questioning it... there is a little thing on games called... a copyright...... Who cares if patents are still pending whats that mean? This is just a pointless thing... I'm just too lazy to count how many times the words ill and legal have been used... I am falling ill over this topic and its legal to post things in opinions or otherwise... of course, annoying someone's illegal now somehow in america... |
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Ailure Mr. Shine I just want peace...  Since: 11-17-05 From: Sweden Last post: 6309 days Last view: 6309 days |
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Originally posted by ||bassProbably from people/sites who tried to look legal by claiming that, not like anyone followed a such stupid non-existant rule. Legally, you probably have a easier time getting away distrubiing abondenware than... let say SMW. Keep in mind that abondenware isn't legal... but most people get away with it since sometimes the companies who made that game dosen't even exist anymore, or dosen't earn any more money. Have anyone actually got in trouble for actually having ROMs? I only heard about letters ROM images sites get, and legal actions against companies selling 100 games in 1 controller. |
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DarkPhoenix Red Goomba Since: 12-27-05 Last post: 6314 days Last view: 6314 days |
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| We're discussing it because it's of some interest to us, and, obviously, since there's debate over it, the issue's certainly not that clear cut - and some people may actually have some use for this information. If you tire of the conversation, don't open the thread, and just hope for it to die, and for that matter, don't bump the thread when it's started to die just to complain about it.
In regards to people getting in trouble for just posessing ROMs, well, it likely wouldn't be financially beneficial to any company to sue an individual for posession, unless they're doing a significant bit of distribution. Especially under the chance that the individual can prove that they own a legal copy of the game, because then, even if the copy were definitely illegal, the individual would be showing that they're doing little or no financial damage to the company or the market, so the case would likely just get thrown out. Unless the gaming industrly, like the RIAA has, gets into scare tactics, it only really hurts them to go after individuals for just posession and use. |
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LocalH Paragoomba Since: 11-20-05 Last post: 6548 days Last view: 6548 days |
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| That's because it's simply not illegal to possess ROMs - it's only illegal to distribute ROMs that you don't have authorization to distribute. It might technically be illegal to download ROMs, but I can 99% guarantee you that you will not get in trouble for downloading, only distribution. And you have to be doing some pretty large-scale distribution to show up on the radar, so if you give a friend a ROM CD then you'll probably be okay from a practical standpoint (although you've technically broken the law). | |||
Xeruss Cukeman  Since: 11-18-05 From: Oregon Last post: 6310 days Last view: 6310 days |
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| Yes it is illegal, but everyone knows how everyone drives 60 m.p.h in the 50 m.p.h zone, the police know it happens, but they also realize that there are bigger crimes in the making, and unless they're having a bad day, they won't bother to pull you over, they'd be wasting there time, that and the fact that ther'd always be another person to take their place... |
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| Acmlm's Board - I3 Archive - General Emulation - [non-public domain/free] ROMs, legality, and ethics/morals |
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