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Thexare

Metal battleaxe
Off to better places








Since: 11-18-05

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Posted on 12-16-06 12:28 AM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Zidane
Originally posted by D1337
Well, everyone thought the DS's "touch screen" idea was stupid, too... and then it blasted off.


This is sort of a different subject. The DS did well because of its affordability and durability.

Yeah, and Nintendo's consoles tend to be a hell of a lot more affordable and durable than Microsoft and especially Sony.
Zidane

Koopa








Since: 07-14-06
From: Melbourne, FL

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Posted on 12-16-06 05:03 AM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Sinfjotle
People are still playing them. All the time. Guitar Hero 2 hit off pretty well too.


I never said that people weren't playing them anymore. By old, I mean that they aren't played as often as they used to be played. Less than half of the people who played DDR when it was at its peak popularity play it at all now. I admit that Guitar Hero was a bad example, though - that game was never even nearly as popular as DDR.

Originally posted by Sinfjotle
Gemeplay is the focus of games, not graphics, not sound, if you aren't bored of generic FPS by now, but you're calling Guitar Hero or DDR old, then well, you have a pretty big problem.


I have a big problem? I'm not sure if you meant for that to be an insult or a statement. Either way, you fail to disprove my argument. While gameplay is an important factor, graphics and sound is just as important. If people were content with just gameplay, they would never have bought a SNES or N64; instead sticking to their NES, which had games that offered the same sort of gameplay. Many people want realism, which is one reason why people end up throwing their Wii-motes through their televisions.

I'm not saying that graphics and sound is everything, but I think it is what will convince quite a bit of people to buy a PS3 or X360 when they get bored of motion sensing. You may have heard some people say that they'll hold off on buying a PS3 until games such as Metal Gear 4 comes out. Do they want to play the game so much because of the gameplay and story that Metal Gear usually has to offer? Maybe in some cases, but a lot of people would like to see an ultra-realistic Snake in action. :p

I'm getting sort of annoyed at seeing the gameplay versus graphics argument, though. It's an old Nintendo fanboy argument; and most can agree that the majority of people will not side with the fanboy.

Originally posted by Thexare
Yeah, and Nintendo's consoles tend to be a hell of a lot more affordable and durable than Microsoft and especially Sony.


They are slightly more affordable, but I would not agree with their durability. The pins on the NES bent, the NES and SNES had problems loading games (sometimes they stopped loading games altogether), and the N64 and Game Cube controllers often broke. While I can't say anything about Microsoft's products, I can say that my Playstation, Playstation 2, and all the games and accessories for them still work perfectly (with maybe a controller or two breaking from me and my brothers handling them roughly when we were younger). I have not really heard so much about how easily Sony's consoles broke; in fact, I only see more Nintendo fanboys using this argument (which is funny, as Nintendo's stuff breaks all the time).

(edited by Zidane on 12-16-06 04:13 AM)
(edited by Zidane on 12-16-06 04:16 AM)
emcee

Red Super Koopa


 





Since: 11-20-05

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Posted on 12-16-06 05:41 AM Link | Quote
Whether a console succeeds or fails has little to do with the specs of the system itself to attract buyers. It's the ability of it, and the company that sells it, to attract decent third party developers.

That's true of everything from game consoles, to processor architectures, to operating systems. It's pretty much always the software that matters.
Zidane

Koopa








Since: 07-14-06
From: Melbourne, FL

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Posted on 12-16-06 05:55 AM Link | Quote
Originally posted by emcee
Whether a console succeeds or fails has little to do with the specs of the system itself to attract buyers. It's the ability of it, and the company that sells it, to attract decent third party developers.

That's true of everything from game consoles, to processor architectures, to operating systems. It's pretty much always the software that matters.


Nintendo hasn't been the greatest at attracting third party developers, though. While there are some good games by other companies, the most notable games tend to be by Nintendo themselves.

You are right. It is the software that matters, and companies are smart. They know that people love realism, which is why games like Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion, which requires a pretty high end computer to run, exist.
NSNick

Gohma
IF ALL ELSE
FAILS USE FIRE
BOOZE








Since: 11-17-05
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Posted on 12-16-06 11:45 AM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Zidane
They are slightly more affordable, but I would not agree with their durability. The pins on the NES bent, the NES and SNES had problems loading games (sometimes they stopped loading games altogether), and the N64 and Game Cube controllers often broke. While I can't say anything about Microsoft's products, I can say that my Playstation, Playstation 2, and all the games and accessories for them still work perfectly (with maybe a controller or two breaking from me and my brothers handling them roughly when we were younger). I have not really heard so much about how easily Sony's consoles broke; in fact, I only see more Nintendo fanboys using this argument (which is funny, as Nintendo's stuff breaks all the time).

Seriously? The PS2 is probably the least durable system of all time. I shudder to think of the defect rate of the system.
Zidane

Koopa








Since: 07-14-06
From: Melbourne, FL

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Posted on 12-16-06 02:22 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by NSNick
Originally posted by Zidane
They are slightly more affordable, but I would not agree with their durability. The pins on the NES bent, the NES and SNES had problems loading games (sometimes they stopped loading games altogether), and the N64 and Game Cube controllers often broke. While I can't say anything about Microsoft's products, I can say that my Playstation, Playstation 2, and all the games and accessories for them still work perfectly (with maybe a controller or two breaking from me and my brothers handling them roughly when we were younger). I have not really heard so much about how easily Sony's consoles broke; in fact, I only see more Nintendo fanboys using this argument (which is funny, as Nintendo's stuff breaks all the time).

Seriously? The PS2 is probably the least durable system of all time. I shudder to think of the defect rate of the system.


People made it out to be worse than it really was. The PS2 was also the console that was sold the most, over 100 million. I don't think the defect rate was very high, just that many people had the system, many of which were the type who break the wrist straps on their Wii-motes. I really don't know many people who have had their PS2s break on them (meaning they haven't been doing something stupid), but I do know many people who have non-working NES and SNES consoles, and many broken controllers for the N64 and Game Cube, including myself. For every story of a PS2 breaking, I've heard one about a Game Cube or more about an Xbox breaking. Now, the Xbox I would say had a high defect rate.

As durable as one may argue that Nintendo products may be, there are already people who have received Wii consoles that wouldn't even boot up. And, of course, many who have broken straps off their controllers. :p Sure, it's no big deal, but the system has already contributed a lot to the destruction of other things in the home, which may even convince parents not to buy a Wii for their children. If teens and adults are throwing their Wii-motes through their television, imagine what children would do. Besides, it doesn't look good when parts of a system are breaking shortly after release. If a shoddy job was done to prevent people from chucking their controllers (which isn't hard to imagine, seeing as there is a wrist strap), who's to say that something else in the Wii isn't as poorly designed? Nintendo realizes this, which is why they are giving out free wrist strap replacements. They aren't being nice, but instead they are trying to protect the integrity of the Wii. It is good business practice, though.

However, I don't think durability will have too much to do with the outcome of the Wii. I think the more mature players will eventually get tired of it. It'll probably hold the children's attention longer, that is, if their parents are still willing to buy them one.

(edited by Zidane on 12-16-06 01:24 PM)
NSNick

Gohma
IF ALL ELSE
FAILS USE FIRE
BOOZE








Since: 11-17-05
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Posted on 12-16-06 02:45 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Zidane
Originally posted by NSNick
Originally posted by Zidane
They are slightly more affordable, but I would not agree with their durability. The pins on the NES bent, the NES and SNES had problems loading games (sometimes they stopped loading games altogether), and the N64 and Game Cube controllers often broke. While I can't say anything about Microsoft's products, I can say that my Playstation, Playstation 2, and all the games and accessories for them still work perfectly (with maybe a controller or two breaking from me and my brothers handling them roughly when we were younger). I have not really heard so much about how easily Sony's consoles broke; in fact, I only see more Nintendo fanboys using this argument (which is funny, as Nintendo's stuff breaks all the time).

Seriously? The PS2 is probably the least durable system of all time. I shudder to think of the defect rate of the system.


People made it out to be worse than it really was. The PS2 was also the console that was sold the most, over 100 million. I don't think the defect rate was very high, just that many people had the system, many of which were the type who break the wrist straps on their Wii-motes. I really don't know many people who have had their PS2s break on them (meaning they haven't been doing something stupid), but I do know many people who have non-working NES and SNES consoles, and many broken controllers for the N64 and Game Cube, including myself. For every story of a PS2 breaking, I've heard one about a Game Cube or more about an Xbox breaking. Now, the Xbox I would say had a high defect rate.


No, it really was that bad. And I wonder how many of those 100 million systems were replacements for defective systems. Also, most people who had their PS2 break on them weren't doing anything stupid. One of the two disc readers would simply die.

Oh, and there's also the fact that placing it vertically (like in a Sony brand vertical stand) puts your games and movies at risk.
Zidane

Koopa








Since: 07-14-06
From: Melbourne, FL

Last post: 6303 days
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Posted on 12-16-06 06:04 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by NSNick
Originally posted by Zidane
Originally posted by NSNick
Originally posted by Zidane
They are slightly more affordable, but I would not agree with their durability. The pins on the NES bent, the NES and SNES had problems loading games (sometimes they stopped loading games altogether), and the N64 and Game Cube controllers often broke. While I can't say anything about Microsoft's products, I can say that my Playstation, Playstation 2, and all the games and accessories for them still work perfectly (with maybe a controller or two breaking from me and my brothers handling them roughly when we were younger). I have not really heard so much about how easily Sony's consoles broke; in fact, I only see more Nintendo fanboys using this argument (which is funny, as Nintendo's stuff breaks all the time).

Seriously? The PS2 is probably the least durable system of all time. I shudder to think of the defect rate of the system.


People made it out to be worse than it really was. The PS2 was also the console that was sold the most, over 100 million. I don't think the defect rate was very high, just that many people had the system, many of which were the type who break the wrist straps on their Wii-motes. I really don't know many people who have had their PS2s break on them (meaning they haven't been doing something stupid), but I do know many people who have non-working NES and SNES consoles, and many broken controllers for the N64 and Game Cube, including myself. For every story of a PS2 breaking, I've heard one about a Game Cube or more about an Xbox breaking. Now, the Xbox I would say had a high defect rate.


No, it really was that bad. And I wonder how many of those 100 million systems were replacements for defective systems. Also, most people who had their PS2 break on them weren't doing anything stupid. One of the two disc readers would simply die.

Oh, and there's also the fact that placing it vertically (like in a Sony brand vertical stand) puts your games and movies at risk.


Was it? Could you back any of those arguments with either personal experience or a link?
C`aos

Porcupo








Since: 03-02-06
From: AB, Canada

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Posted on 12-16-06 06:32 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Zidane
Was it? Could you back any of those arguments with either personal experience or a link?


Sitting the system vertically with a disc inside made it fall against the 'bottom' edge of the disc tray (which was meant to hold it in), which essentially meant that the disc was perpetually off-center in the tray. This caused the laser to target areas where it regularly shouldn't have.

That's how I understood that whole ordeal anyways.

(edited by C`aos on 12-16-06 05:35 PM)
KP9001

180
I'm going Weasel in 3 months! Where will I end up going?








Since: 01-30-06
From: Show Low, AZ

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Posted on 12-16-06 07:08 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Thexare
Yeah, and Nintendo's consoles tend to be a hell of a lot more affordable and durable than Microsoft and especially Sony.


I find this to be quite true throughout my life of gaming. Most every Sony/Microsoft item I own has broken or worn out. I play all 3 previous-gen systems regularly and have found that Sony has the worst hardware. I've replaced a PS2 three times already. Problems with the laser. Go fucking figure. I actually bought a slim PS2 with a laser fix mod inside to prevent it from dying. I also replaced the DVD drive inside my Xbox and the power supply twice. The GameCube needed a laser POT adjustment after 5 years of regular gameplay. Extremely simple to do.

And for the record, every non-Nintendo controller I have bought to date (since the beginning of my gaming life 18 years ago) has broken. I don't throw my controllers around, but I do play games vigorously.
The Red Snifit

Ropa








Since: 03-05-06
From: Here

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Posted on 12-16-06 08:14 PM Link | Quote
OBJECTION! (For Zidane)
My NES, which has been used WAY more than any other system of mine, has been dropped 3 times an it still works perfectly. My PS2 broke after a year of use for no reason! A friend of mine dropped his from about half a foot above the ground, and it broke. My SNES is still in perfect condition, even though I got it new and used it very often. My N64 still has its original controller, but I agree that they broke often because of games like SM64 and Mario Party. My Game Cube's only broken controller is a third party one that got really abused by my friend's friend. The durability of the Gameboys and the DS is very good. I dropped my GBC off the 4th floor of a hotel, and when I got to it, it was still playing. I may be just very lucky with Nintendo, but I know several people with the same story as well.
(This is really getting off topic by the way. )

(edited by The Red Snifit on 12-16-06 07:18 PM)
NSNick

Gohma
IF ALL ELSE
FAILS USE FIRE
BOOZE








Since: 11-17-05
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Posted on 12-16-06 09:49 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Zidane
Was it? Could you back any of those arguments with either personal experience or a link?

Yes and yes: I've worked in game stores for years, and they are by far the most defective system I've seen. The first run of them was especially horrible. The most common problem we saw was either the CD or DVD reader burning out. And if your system is vertical, there's a chance your disc will be too close to the laser, and get a circular burn in it.
Sinfjotle
Lordly? No, not quite.








Since: 11-17-05
From: Kansas

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Posted on 12-16-06 10:57 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Zidane
I never said that people weren't playing them anymore. By old, I mean that they aren't played as often as they used to be played. Less than half of the people who played DDR when it was at its peak popularity play it at all now. I admit that Guitar Hero was a bad example, though - that game was never even nearly as popular as DDR.


I would assume this was because of the lack of new content. (Songs)

I have a big problem? I'm not sure if you meant for that to be an insult or a statement. Either way, you fail to disprove my argument. While gameplay is an important factor, graphics and sound is just as important. If people were content with just gameplay, they would never have bought a SNES or N64; instead sticking to their NES, which had games that offered the same sort of gameplay. Many people want realism, which is one reason why people end up throwing their Wii-motes through their televisions.


Yes, comparing Xbox and Xbox360's jump in graphics is EXACTLY like the jump in SNES to N64. We're talking about a massive difference in how games are actually played when it went from almost entirely 2D to full 3D.

Then we went from oddly shaped blocks to things that actually looked good. Now we're going from things that look good to well... things that look better?

You're also assuming far to much, there isn't a huge market in realism, sure you have your sport games players and your FPS players, but they don't tend to buy 30 games for a system. They aren't the real consumers. (By the way, only 50 confirmed reports of people throwing Wii-motes.)

I'm not saying that graphics and sound is everything, but I think it is what will convince quite a bit of people to buy a PS3 or X360 when they get bored of motion sensing. You may have heard some people say that they'll hold off on buying a PS3 until games such as Metal Gear 4 comes out. Do they want to play the game so much because of the gameplay and story that Metal Gear usually has to offer? Maybe in some cases, but a lot of people would like to see an ultra-realistic Snake in action. :p

I'm getting sort of annoyed at seeing the gameplay versus graphics argument, though. It's an old Nintendo fanboy argument; and most can agree that the majority of people will not side with the fanboy.


And people aren't bored with normal controllers yet? A new way to play a game that doesn't destroy how you used to play it only leads to more differences between games. Which, for the love of God, is a great thing.

Face it, if Metal Gear Solid had bad gameplay, people wouldn't still be playing it. Sure the graphics and everything is great, but it wouldn't be anything without the gameplay. Look at Legend of Zelda. They're all similar, do people buy it because of upped graphics!? No, they buy it because they want to see Link, Snake, Mario, Samus, Master Chief, or Sonic in a new adventure.
Anya









Since: 11-18-05
From: South Florida

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Posted on 12-16-06 11:51 PM Link | Quote
I'm buying a Wii tomorrow.

Ha!
Metal Man88

Gold axe
It appears we have been transported to a time in which everything is on fire!


 





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Posted on 12-16-06 11:53 PM Link | Quote
I will wait out in the cold for one, and hope that I can get one.
HyperHacker

Star Mario
Finally being paid to code in VB! If only I still enjoyed that. <_<
Wii #7182 6487 4198 1828


 





Since: 11-18-05
From: Canada, w00t!
My computer's specs, if anyone gives a damn.
STOP TRUNCATING THIS >8^(

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Posted on 12-17-06 01:11 AM Link | Quote
My DS has fallen out of pockets, off shelves, and down stairs a ridiculous number of times and the only thing that's been damaged is the paint. The classic Game Boys, you could damn near use as a hammer while playing. NES had a defective cart loader yes, but it could take a beating. SNES and N64 were fucking TANKS, and Gamecube is still the most durable disc-based system I know. The only problems I've had with Nintendo products are their tendency to wear out after about 5 years (just over the expected lifespan, mind you); analog sticks and cartridge slots become loose. Both easily fixed by replacing the controllers and wedging things in behind the cartridges.

PS2? Just about every PS2 I've seen has died. My mom's friend (who lived with us, and still does but I no longer do) had four of them just plain wear out from normal use, each after about a year. He never abused them, even by accident, they all just pooped out.

PSP? I saw a PSP demo unit at Zellers and decided to try it out and see if I could make it do something silly. Sony beat me to it - it wouldn't turn on, even though it was plugged in. I haven't seen enough PSPs to know how durable they actually are. I've seen maybe three people who have them in total.

Xbox and Xbox 360 have both been ridden with defects for quite some time. Error 0102 anyone?
Sin Dogan

860

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Posted on 12-17-06 01:29 AM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Racer Xeo
There's trees?


Yea, surrounding the tennis court.
Xeo Belmont

Wiiiiiiiiiiiiin








Since: 11-17-05

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Posted on 12-17-06 02:44 AM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Alice
My DS has fallen out of pockets, off shelves, and down stairs a ridiculous number of times and the only thing that's been damaged is the paint. The classic Game Boys, you could damn near use as a hammer while playing. NES had a defective cart loader yes, but it could take a beating. SNES and N64 were fucking TANKS, and Gamecube is still the most durable disc-based system I know. The only problems I've had with Nintendo products are their tendency to wear out after about 5 years (just over the expected lifespan, mind you); analog sticks and cartridge slots become loose. Both easily fixed by replacing the controllers and wedging things in behind the cartridges.

PS2? Just about every PS2 I've seen has died. My mom's friend (who lived with us, and still does but I no longer do) had four of them just plain wear out from normal use, each after about a year. He never abused them, even by accident, they all just pooped out.

PSP? I saw a PSP demo unit at Zellers and decided to try it out and see if I could make it do something silly. Sony beat me to it - it wouldn't turn on, even though it was plugged in. I haven't seen enough PSPs to know how durable they actually are. I've seen maybe three people who have them in total.

Xbox and Xbox 360 have both been ridden with defects for quite some time. Error 0102 anyone?


1. Completely agreed. Also I've probably referenced to this in the past here, but remember when they flushed (toilets) GBA's and they worked perfectly fine afterwards?
2. Yeah, me and just about every friend I know who's had a PS2 has run into several problems at some point. Disk Read Errors all over, memory cards not being read correctly, data somehow getting deleted, etc.
3. Hold a PSP and squeeze it. Hear that? And it just feels like you could bend it without really trying. I doupt they're that durable at all.
4. I will never be able to play Oblivion on my 360 again, but all other games work perfectly fine.

(edited by Racer Xeo on 12-17-06 01:45 AM)
(edited by Racer Xeo on 12-17-06 01:47 AM)
NSNick

Gohma
IF ALL ELSE
FAILS USE FIRE
BOOZE








Since: 11-17-05
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Posted on 12-17-06 07:52 AM Link | Quote
So our store is going to sell some Wiis when we open this morning. When I was going to a friend's house last night at 10pm, there were already people waiting outside.
Anya









Since: 11-18-05
From: South Florida

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Posted on 12-17-06 08:09 AM Link | Quote
Originally posted by NSNick
So our store is going to sell some Wiis when we open this morning. When I was going to a friend's house last night at 10pm, there were already people waiting outside.


Did you guys have to put a sign out saying how many units you have in the store? My DM told me that I had to do that last night so we won't have heaps of people waiting. We're getting 7 to sell. And my head already hurts...its gonna be another 30 minutes of hell. Thankfully I'll have someone with me in the morning. And we actually have controllers to sell this time around, a nice big box of 'em.
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