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Acmlm's Board - I3 Archive - World Affairs/Debate - Abortion: whose choice is it? | New poll | | Thread closed |
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Silvershield 580 Since: 11-19-05 From: Emerson, New Jersey Last post: 6307 days Last view: 6295 days |
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Originally posted by Pvt. PrinnyI addressed the idea of moral relativity in an earlier post. Originally posted by Pvt. PrinnyNot to take the concept to the extreme, but aren't you just saying that I can do whatever I want as long as I think it's alright? I should be able to steal, and cheat, and kill, because such acts do not conflict with my personal morals. I think that's a pretty questionable philosophy. |
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Sinfjotle Lordly? No, not quite. Since: 11-17-05 From: Kansas Last post: 6297 days Last view: 6295 days |
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Then you're hurting other people's rights.
No, fetus aren't people and don't have rights. |
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Silvershield 580 Since: 11-19-05 From: Emerson, New Jersey Last post: 6307 days Last view: 6295 days |
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Originally posted by Pvt. PrinnyWe keep returning to this issue. It's inevitable, I guess. No one side will ever convince the other side of its position until it can prove that a fetus either is or is not a human. Every other argument rests on this. |
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Sinfjotle Lordly? No, not quite. Since: 11-17-05 From: Kansas Last post: 6297 days Last view: 6295 days |
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Define human. | |||
Silvershield 580 Since: 11-19-05 From: Emerson, New Jersey Last post: 6307 days Last view: 6295 days |
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Originally posted by Pvt. PrinnyI can't "define human," because you'll inevitably come up with some sort of loophole to anything I can say, but if you show me an organism, I will tell you if it is human or not. A fetus is human. I would say that, since it is definitely alive and definitely has the genetic code of the human species, it is human. I'm sure there's some way to define more specific criteria, because it has already been pointed out that any individual human cell fits those two attributes but is not individually human, but I'm not about to devote my time to arguing that point right now because I think people are aware of the spirit of what I mean but nonetheless seek semantic loopholes. Edit for clarity. (edited by Silvershield on 11-14-06 12:35 AM) |
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Sinfjotle Lordly? No, not quite. Since: 11-17-05 From: Kansas Last post: 6297 days Last view: 6295 days |
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I don't know what you mean by spirit, please elaborate.
Edit: Worded fairly poorly and misread what you posted... I think. (edited by Pvt. Prinny on 11-14-06 12:21 AM) |
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Silvershield 580 Since: 11-19-05 From: Emerson, New Jersey Last post: 6307 days Last view: 6295 days |
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Originally posted by Pvt. PrinnyDefinition 19. |
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Sinfjotle Lordly? No, not quite. Since: 11-17-05 From: Kansas Last post: 6297 days Last view: 6295 days |
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Wasn't quick enough to that edit button apparently, but yeah, I read your post a few times and saw what you meant.
Still don't know exactly what you mean though than "abortion is bad cause I say so". |
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Silvershield 580 Since: 11-19-05 From: Emerson, New Jersey Last post: 6307 days Last view: 6295 days |
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Originally posted by Pvt. PrinnyI just assumed it was a common enough idiom without me having to explain it, and didn't take into account that the context might make it difficult to understand at first . Originally posted by Pvt. PrinnyHasn't this entire thread been about me defending why I think abortion is wrong? |
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Sinfjotle Lordly? No, not quite. Since: 11-17-05 From: Kansas Last post: 6297 days Last view: 6295 days |
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Yeah, you value life and believe the fetus is life, but why is that your stance? | |||
Silvershield 580 Since: 11-19-05 From: Emerson, New Jersey Last post: 6307 days Last view: 6295 days |
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Originally posted by Pvt. PrinnyWhy do I believe what I do, or how do I defend what I believe? Your question is slightly ambiguous. |
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Sinfjotle Lordly? No, not quite. Since: 11-17-05 From: Kansas Last post: 6297 days Last view: 6295 days |
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Sorry, why do you believe what you believe? | |||
Silvershield 580 Since: 11-19-05 From: Emerson, New Jersey Last post: 6307 days Last view: 6295 days |
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Originally posted by Pvt. PrinnyI've been pro-life for as long as I remember, and I would imagine that it originally stemmed from my religion, but it has since grown into a rational opinion. Just like I am anti-war, anti-capital punishment, and anti-euthanasia (all of which were almost certainly directly influenced by my religion at first, as well), I am anti-abortion because I consider every human life to be sacred. Not necessarily sacred in a religious sense - though that is a component of it - but sacred insomuch as I recognize human beings with a sort of empathy and understanding that I cannot afford to any other species. Being a human myself, I instinctively and rationally seek to preserve my own kind, both for the well-being of the species as a whole (the instinctive part) and because I can only truly understand and empathize with other humans (the rational part). I feel like I can't find the words to truly say what I want to say, but that's close enough. |
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Sinfjotle Lordly? No, not quite. Since: 11-17-05 From: Kansas Last post: 6297 days Last view: 6295 days |
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That clarifies a lot.
Your idea is deeply rooted, and you follow through with it, which I can respect. As you said earlier we'll never be able to convince the other when it hits the heart of the issue, so apparently it's an agree to disagree? |
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Silvershield 580 Since: 11-19-05 From: Emerson, New Jersey Last post: 6307 days Last view: 6295 days |
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Originally posted by Pvt. PrinnyI guess. I've thrown the best arguments I have, so to speak, and they have hardly dented the opinions of anyone who is pro-choice. Just like every argument by a pro-choice person, no matter how rational and defensible, has made little progress in changing me. Dunno what more to say. |
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Arwon Bazu Since: 11-18-05 From: Randwick, Sydney, NSW, Australia Last post: 6296 days Last view: 6296 days |
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I once read a rather stunningly revealing article in a philosophy magazine which pointed out that if you start from a first principle of "suffering is evil" rather than "life is sacred" you come to an extremely different set of moral and ethical principles.
I leave it as an exercise to the reader to follow through the reasoning and ramifications of the two first-principles on a whole range of issues. |
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Silvershield 580 Since: 11-19-05 From: Emerson, New Jersey Last post: 6307 days Last view: 6295 days |
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Originally posted by ArwonBut the initial issue, then, comes down to the fact that many crimes are not necessarily "wrong" because they cause suffering. I could murder someone, for example, but he if was asleep or sedated during the act then he would hardly suffer. I don't think the experience of pain or anxiety is a prerequisite for something to be considered harmful, bad, or wrong. |
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Ziff B2BB BACKTOBASICSBITCHES Since: 11-18-05 From: A room Last post: 6295 days Last view: 6295 days |
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But what about the social suffering that you inflict surrounding him? | |||
Tauwasser Red Goomba Since: 11-19-05 Last post: 6387 days Last view: 6307 days |
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Please elaborate then.
cYa, Tauwasser |
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Silvershield 580 Since: 11-19-05 From: Emerson, New Jersey Last post: 6307 days Last view: 6295 days |
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Originally posted by Plus Sign AbominationWhat if he is a homeless man with no relationships, whether family or friends or otherwise, and nobody would even notice he is gone? Is it alright then? Originally posted by TauwasserBy the time a women realizes she is pregnant, the embryo is already quite sophisticated. And that sophistication only increases through the later weeks, right up until the time that abortion becomes illegal. |
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