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| 0 users currently in SMW Hacking. |
| Acmlm's Board - I3 Archive - SMW Hacking - Super Challenge World Released! |
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Kailieann                 Since: 11-18-05 Last post: 6298 days Last view: 6298 days |
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Originally posted by Kiwisauce Sure, if you just walk through the goal post. But you forgot to take into consideration the fact that if you stomp on a yellow koopa and let it get back into its shell, it turns into one of those flashing shells that gives Yoshi every power, including flight. Naturally, under these circumstances, someone is going to fly over the goalpost. Edit: That's one dangerous corner.. Edit: . . . (edited by Kailieann on 10-08-06 10:45 AM) (edited by Kailieann on 10-08-06 08:04 PM) (edited by Kailieann on 10-08-06 08:13 PM) |
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Kiwisauce Red Goomba   Since: 09-23-06 Last post: 6301 days Last view: 6300 days |
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Originally posted by KailieannOriginally posted by Kiwisauce Ah, right. That makes a lot more sense... Thanks for pointing that out. Originally posted by Kailieann I see you've met the "Corner of Doom". Bwahaha. It's interesting how Mario becomes invincible to enemies after hitting the goal post, and yet Yoshi doesn't. |
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Surlent Koopa Back to the roots   Since: 11-18-05 From: Berlin, Germany Last post: 6310 days Last view: 6310 days |
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You won: One life off. Seriously, those jumping note blocks, adjacent to walls, can be your way leading to doom, since Mario comes trapped inside the wall. One funny thing: The 1-UP mushrooms didn't stop to move, while Mario's death sequence was played.
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Kiwisauce Red Goomba Since: 09-23-06 Last post: 6301 days Last view: 6300 days |
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Originally posted by Surlent Heeheehee... I find your death due to my note blocked bonus level very amusing. Keep this property in mind though. (Hint hint) |
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3.14159265358979323846 Red Paragoomba  Since: 05-30-06 From: China Last post: 6308 days Last view: 6309 days |
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Originally posted by 3.14159265358979323846 Err... do you know of any places where this happens in the hack? I've tested it pretty thoroughly, and I think I've fixed all the paths. I assume you just used RLM to open it, and viewed my overworld. Please let me know if you find anything wrong, though. Originally posted by 3.14159265358979323846 I'm not sure I know what you mean. As far as I know, all my events work properly. Could you post a screenshot or just give an example? Yep, I use RLM to open your hack. (Not to steal levels though, ha  )
If you have tested it throughly, you may found this problem. Another several problems I found: - Yep, your world is challenging, but please don't make like death corners and unwarned Layer 2 objects falling down (players will find this one very annoying and they will become angry) - You say you don't understand what do I mean by "connecting the Layer 2 event tiles together", right? Here's a screenshot, and this problem exists in many other places. 
(connect the blank - Castle 7 is rather fun to play, I like it! - A VERY GOOD OW designing on World 8 - makes a quiet and terrible atomsphere. (maybe it is "atomsphere' or something else) - Acid pools pallete is bad(and you know few kinds of acid is green, for example, H2SO4 is transculent, ha  ) |
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ZTaimat  260  Since: 11-19-05 Last post: 6365 days Last view: 6299 days |
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Originally posted by Kailieann |
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asdf Link's Awakening ಠ_ಠ  Since: 11-18-05 Last post: 6300 days Last view: 6298 days |
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Originally posted by ZTaimat The yellow koopa thing could potentially be disabled. Thing is, things like Yoshis add another element of gameplay into hacks and make them more interesting. That's a problem with many hacks nowadays: they're far too bland. Of course, in this case, things could be designed in a way as to limit the use of Yoshi with No-Yoshi signs and careful use of enemies. As for almost everyone else, though, they really have to be less paranoid about not doing things the way they were intended to be done and "cheating" with such things like Yoshi. (edited by asdf on 10-14-06 11:17 PM) |
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wtfweb Red Koopa  Since: 02-10-06 Last post: 6309 days Last view: 6299 days |
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| i agree with asdf. sure you COULD skip level in a hack by searching out a cape and blue or yellow flashing shells, but no one would even want to do this unless the level's boring or badly made. and skipping boring levels makes the hack more fun for the player - or at least less dull.
that's one reason i hate it when hackers remove yoshi or certain powerups from their hack completely - even if it's for storyline reasons. While making mario world easier, yoshi does add a lot to the gameplay and variety of mario world |
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Glyphodon Since: 11-18-05 Last post: 6339 days Last view: 6320 days |
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| Ever played SMB? How many powerups did you have in that game? And how good was SMB? | |||
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wtfweb Red Koopa Since: 02-10-06 Last post: 6309 days Last view: 6299 days |
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| that comparison doesn't work. super mario bros and mario world are different games.
also my point isn't that having no yoshis or capes makes a hack bad. it's that yoshi and the cape powerup only add to a hack, they never take away from one. the original super mario bros is an amazing game because the physics are simplistic - yet tight - and they never really get boring. it reminds me of tetris because of this (how it never gets boring). but with mario world, mario's movements/physics are so fluid and complicated that riding yoshi and flying just fits. it's not necessary no, but it makes the game more fun and when yoshi isn't available anymore, the player will notice and it takes something away from the game. a more realistic comparison would be how one could assume that if you took away a powerup (say the fire flower) in the original smb, it would make the game less fun overall. |
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Glyphodon Since: 11-18-05 Last post: 6339 days Last view: 6320 days |
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| Capes and Yoshi do take away from a hack. The Fire Flower, which was actually kinda hard to get and keep, wasn't game-skippingly useful or take-a-million-hits useful like they are. It fit. These, which also allow you to go back and restock each time you lose said powerup, don't fit at all. | |||
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PSlugworth Red Paragoomba  Since: 11-18-05 Last post: 6304 days Last view: 6298 days |
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| Um, I'm going to have to side with wtfweb here.
Because when you think about it, there were very few levels in the original SMW that you could fly completely over with the cape or where having Yoshi really made it a walk in the park. If you, as SMW hackers, are hacking the game PROPERLY and using GOOD level design, then this shouldn't be a problem either. There needs to be a balance of enemies, holes, obstacles, pipes, and so on that force you to explore the level properly. (edited by PSlugworth on 10-15-06 02:04 AM) |
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wtfweb Red Koopa Since: 02-10-06 Last post: 6309 days Last view: 6299 days |
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Originally posted by Glyph Phoenix are you suggesting that mario world would be a better game if nintendo hadn't included yoshi? i'll admit that if a hacker puts too many powerups or yoshis in their hack, it can make the game less fun since there's no reason to even try. there needs to be a balance in a hack's difficulty. but completely dropping powerups for being "take-a-million-hits useful" isn't acceptable. nintendo did a good job making it so that mario world is fun even with being able to jump back on yoshi after you get hit! and i also have to disagree with your opinion that being able to restock powerups is a problem. if a player wants a powerup for a level, and is actually willing to go back and find it, more power to them. i dont see how that can do anything but make the game more fun for them. point is - riding yoshi and flying is fun. and if a hacker knows how to design good levels, these things are as balanced and fun as in the original mario world. less powerups (in mario world's case) = less fun (edited by wtfweb on 10-15-06 02:08 AM) (edited by wtfweb on 10-15-06 02:14 AM) |
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Glyphodon Since: 11-18-05 Last post: 6339 days Last view: 6320 days |
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| SMW wasn't balanced or fun. Yoshi was a good addition because where SMW didn't have more solid gameplay it had new, mildly interesting surprise elements like Yoshi or the secret exit filled overworld that other Mario games didn't have.
Of course, you don't have that luxury, hackers. SMW was a buggy game that couldn't stand up to its predecessors when it was new, and now it doesn't even have that lustrous sheen anymore. Now is when you have to rely on superior balance to make the game fun, or else you've got crap. Yoshi and capes are a liability the way they are, allowing you to take them anywhere and keep them forever. They certainly don't make good levels designed for powerless Mario more fun. (edited by Glyph Phoenix on 10-15-06 02:16 AM) (edited by Glyph Phoenix on 10-15-06 02:17 AM) |
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wtfweb Red Koopa Since: 02-10-06 Last post: 6309 days Last view: 6299 days |
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Originally posted by Glyph Phoenix i think smw was and still is fun. maybe it isn't perfectly balanced - especially not for expert players. but all i can say is that imo yoshi is more than a mildly interesting surprise, adding a completely new element to the game. Originally posted by Glyph Phoenix why would anyone design a level for a powerless mario in mario world knowing that there are powerups available? this makes no sense. any level designed for a powered mario could be just as fun as a level designed for a powerless one. but i do see where you're coming from, and i guess we'll have to agree to disagree and leave it at that. |
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x1372 Goomba  Since: 07-03-06 Last post: 6316 days Last view: 6298 days |
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| I'm going to have to side with glyph here for the most part. Unless you exp For example, I recently designed a complex desert level. It was, by the standard of myself and my friends who are testing it, a relatively difficult level. When trying the same level with the use of the cape, the entire thing gets reduced to a joke due to how easy it is. Adding in obstacles to prevent flying over the level makes the level itself needlessly cluttered, and makes a difficult level even more so for standard play. Yoshi adds even more fun abuse possibilities. So much for having any blue or yellow koopas anymore (or any for that matter if blue yoshi is obtainable). Pow puzzles become pretty weak as well since yosh can actually eat a pow right after hitting it and spit it back out for another press (and another and another...). Of course, that isn't even considering the fact that taking a hit is almost meaningless once you have yoshi, and that if you're willing to sacrifice him and get another, you can pretty much skip any jumping puzzle as well. It's kind of telling about the original game - name one time you would rather have fire power over a cape. I'll tell you. Fighting Ludwig Koopa. In every other situation the cape is either just as good as, or better than, fire power... and in that situation, fire only makes an easy battle easier. Oh, and there are actually a heck of a lot of levels that you can just fly over in the original game. In fact, between yoshi and capes, you could trivialize every single level in the special world with the exception of tubular (12B). While I fully agree with the fact that yoshi and capes make the game more interesting, from a balance perspective they are a nightmare. The fact that once you have a cape or a yoshi from a level you can restock it at any time only compounds the problem. Go back and play the original, unedited Mario World without getting a cape or a yoshi. Suddenly you have a much more difficult game on your hands. In fact, you can get a 96 exit completion using a cape in one level (donut ghost house), a yoshi in one level (valley of bowser 4), and your pick of a cape or yoshi in two (cheese bridge area and chocolate island 3). In fact, I would argue that the game IS more fun that way - you have to actually deal with the tricks and traps that Nintendo put into the game rather than just fly, float, or damage boost your way past them. There's nothing wrong with levels and games based on these powerups, but a lot can still be said for levels that are fun without them and trivial with them. |
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wtfweb Red Koopa Since: 02-10-06 Last post: 6309 days Last view: 6299 days |
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| i still stand by that if people want to play a hack (or even mario world,) when given the chance they wont fly over all the levels - unless they think the game's more fun this way (in which case i still dont see the problem.) basically, if players like a more difficult game, i think they can figure out for themselves that they might not want to fly over every level.
but you made a lot of good points and i see that the problem people have with the cape (which i'll admit is abusable - but in a fun way!) is its ability to let you fly for an infinite distance, a trick which i think IS balanced as most non-expert players dont even know how to do this, and because of what i stated above. also i dont think there are any real problems with yoshi, at least none that outweigh the fun factor yoshi adds to the game, or that can't be remedied with good level design. and as for being able to jump back on yoshi and get hit inifinite times, first of all there should be holes that yoshi can fall into (making chasing him more exciting and difficult). and who wants to get hit and die anyway? that's not fun. i think yoshi makes the game more fun for players, but not so easy that it takes away all challenge and that you CANT die with him - because that just isn't true. (edited by wtfweb on 10-15-06 12:03 PM) (edited by wtfweb on 10-15-06 12:05 PM) (edited by wtfweb on 10-15-06 12:07 PM) (edited by wtfweb on 10-15-06 12:09 PM) |
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asdf Link's Awakening ಠ_ಠ Since: 11-18-05 Last post: 6300 days Last view: 6298 days |
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| The Fire Flower is "shoot everything in sight" useful, though. Granted, it doesn't work on everything, but it can turn a normally hard situation easy. Plus, if you don't like capes or Yoshis, don't use them while playing.
The restock problem can be remedied by disabling START+SELECT level exiting and gradually introducing powerups, and putting them near the middle of the level. Simply put, you'd only get to have a cape starting at the last few worlds, and even then you'd only be able to get them from near the middle of levels, so you'll have to be careful if you want to keep them (or sacrifice a life and take along a Fire Flower). |
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Tatrion <_<; Since: 11-17-05 Last post: 6299 days Last view: 6298 days |
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| Easy way to fix breaking levels with capes - Put invisible cement blocks at the top of the level, and have the occasional full-height pillar in there, like a tree with a tunnel carved through it, a dirt hole, whatever.
Another way- make levels that don't scroll vertically. It's more difficult to fly when you can't see Mario, unless you have the tempo of the cape memorized perfectly. On-topic, I've played a bit of this hack, but I didn't go to terribly far. This post kind of made me feel like playing it again, though. EDIT: I especially liked the yellow switch palace. The part where you had to juggle two POWs to the other side of the palace was really clever. (edited by Tatrion, not Tarton on 10-15-06 05:32 PM) |
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Kiwisauce Red Goomba Since: 09-23-06 Last post: 6301 days Last view: 6300 days |
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Originally posted by Tatrion, not Tarton Well, thank you! If you liked the yellow one, you're really going to like the blue one. Originally posted by 3.14159265358979323846 Well, there's only one death corner in the game, and as for falling Layer 2 stuff, it's hardly unwarned if you can recognize the background as a Layer 3 background. Also, I thought I was fairly generous with midpoints in this hack. As for the Layer 2 event tiles problem, I wasn't very familiar with GFX hacking at the time I made this hack, so I couldn't get the right tiles to make the path go along the edge of the pool, but if this really bugs a lot of people I suppose I could change it for the next version. Originally posted by x1372 Two words: Water levels. Oh, and on that whole "balanced cape/yoshi" debate you're having, I agree completely with wtfweb. Yoshi and capes are fun, and the tricky things you can do with them are difficult and not-well-known enough that only an expert player can really use them to break levels. Also, part of the problem with capes is that designers sometimes give them to the player too soon. Look at Super Demo World: Capes in level four, plus infinite capes in the first secret house. That hack was just asking to be flown over. And I'm not saying to not put them in, just restrict them. Like in Stranded, with the blue tornado thingies that couldn't be taken out of the room you got them in. (I think this was in Stranded; someone correct me if I'm wrong.) Anyway, Yoshi and cape flying add a great element to the game, and SMW wouldn't be the same without them. (edited by Kiwisauce on 10-16-06 10:28 AM) (edited by Kiwisauce on 10-16-06 10:40 AM) |
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