 |
| Register | Login | |||||
 |
Main
| Memberlist
| Active users
| Calendar
| Chat
| Online users Ranks | FAQ | ACS | Stats | Color Chart | Search | Photo album |
|
| | ||
|
| Register | Login | |||||
|
Main
| Memberlist
| Active users
| Calendar
| Chat
| Online users Ranks | FAQ | ACS | Stats | Color Chart | Search | Photo album |
|
| | ||
| 0 users currently in General Gaming. |
| Acmlm's Board - I3 Archive - General Gaming - Pokemon Diamond and Pearl |
New poll |  |  |
| Pages: 1 2 3 4 | Add to favorites | Next newer thread | Next older thread |
| User | Post | ||
HyperHacker Star Mario Finally being paid to code in VB! If only I still enjoyed that. <_< Wii #7182 6487 4198 1828                    Since: 11-18-05 From: Canada, w00t! My computer's specs, if anyone gives a damn. STOP TRUNCATING THIS >8^( Last post: 6328 days Last view: 6328 days |
| ||
Grey expOriginally posted by Yoronosuku Eh, it wasn't really the features so much as the overall design that I didn't like in the Advance games. More things were based on random numbers, which wouldn't have been so bad except the RNG seemed to be broken and would keep spitting out the same numbers over and over again. I suspect they implemented the "wrap around to a lower number when given a number out of range" functionality wrong. I found I'd always just fight the same wild Pokémon over and over again, attacks - no matter what their accuracy - would hit every time for a while and then not hit at all 6 times in a row, etc. The Pokémon types just made no sense at all. In the older games you could generally make a guess at your opponent's type based on its name and appearance (a fish? probably water), but in these games you'd often find yourself totally wrong (wtf, it's electric and rock?). In the older games it was uncommon to find yourself completely unable to attack because none of your attacks could do any reasonable damage to whatever type your opponent is, but in these games they had special abilities that would prevent certain types of attacks from working or even heal from them. You'd get enemies invulnerable to nearly every type of attack, and not being able to guess what type they were only made this worse. So often, especially in dual battles (which were cool but not common enough), I found myself just killing time because I couldn't attack at all. Oh and the music was painful.  I loved it in R/B/Y and even moreso in G/S/C, but the Advance games were the only video game I ever played with the sound off the entire time.
So yeah, there's my rant and why I doubt I'll be buying any more Pokémon games. |
|||
|
Thexare Metal battleaxe Off to better places  Since: 11-18-05 Last post: 6328 days Last view: 6328 days |
| ||
Normally I would leave it to Alastor to argue with you, but last time he did I yelled at him.
Originally posted by HyperHacker I don't recall this ever coming up when I was playing... I very rarely had difficulty guessing an enemy's type, the only exception that comes to mind being Mawile.
Unless you've got something more specific to say here, I'm stuck assuming you're referring to the fact that there's more attacks for the random numbers to apply to. I prefer GSC over RSE too, but you keep regurgitating the same arguments over and over, word for word, and never really explaining any of them sufficiently. |
|||
Yoronosuku Toss Tortoise Since: 11-17-05 From: Massachusetts is my new home.. Last post: 6328 days Last view: 6328 days |
| ||
They also changed the wild Pokemon format from Fire Red/Leaf Green on (I'm not sure if it carried in to Emerald or not) so if you had a problem with that, they probably addressed it  also, I quite liked the music .__. especially in the remakes. Go Ichinose really knew what he was doiiiing...and he wrote the soundtrack to Gold and Silver with Junichi Masuda (who was also loosly involved with sound again) so it isn't like the style is that off ^^ if anything, I give Gamefreak credit for being EXTREMELY consistant in terms of style and design. |
|||
|
Kailieann Since: 11-18-05 Last post: 6328 days Last view: 6328 days |
| ||
Originally posted by Thexare Dude, you, like.. missed an entire paragraph in there, or something. He clearly.. well, okay, maybe it wasn't that clear, but still.. he stated that his issue was that, for him, the RNG seemed to keep giving out the same results. Originally posted by HyperHacker Originally posted by HyperHacker Personally, I never had any of those problems. HH might just warp the laws of probability within his immediate vicinity *shrug* As for the topic at hand, well. I have to admit, I wasn't particularly interested in the DS to begin with, let alone the new Pokemon games, but I kept an eye on the news coming in just the same, and, well.. I'm still not interested in the DS, but as soon as there's an emulator that can run these, I'm.. I'm just there. I enjoyed the original Pokemon games when they were the only ones available, but I never really got into GSC. I've tried, believe me. I think last time I made it as far as the third gym. I liked all the lesser changes they implemented -- things like gender, berries, hold items, and especially breeding.. but night and day, I was ambivalent about, and I absolutely %$#&*@ hated the cell phone. Almost didn't get Emerald because of it. RSE are my favorites. A lot of the things I've seen people complaining about are what drew me to them in the first place, oddly enough. And while I have no real issues with Fire Red and Leaf Green (aside from the god-awful help system).. well, they are what they are. Remakes. For nostalgics and collectors only. And I really didn't like the graphical style, not compared to RSE. Too SD. So yeah, RSE are my favorites. Diamond and Pearl.. I don't care too much for the graphical style from the screens I've seen so far, but I can live with them. Mostly I'm looking forward to playing with the new features. Pokemon games aren't for everyone, but people who really like them will always find room to enjoy them. And I sincerely hope they make GSC remakes, 'cause I really want to play them, but.. the gameboy versions just don't do it for me anymore. |
|||
|
Thexare Metal battleaxe Off to better places Since: 11-18-05 Last post: 6328 days Last view: 6328 days |
| ||
Originally posted by KailieannOriginally posted by Thexare That issue, you have stated, never came up for you. It has never come up for me, either, and I think Alastor said it never happened to him. But, either way, you missed the part of his comment I was referring to. Specifically, this: Originally posted by HyperHacker |
|||
|
Alastor Fearless Moderator Hero  Since: 11-17-05 From: An apartment by DigiPen, Redmond, Washington Last post: 6328 days Last view: 6328 days |
| ||
| While you guys are arguing, I might as well chip in and say that the effort value system put in place by RSE is leaps and bounds better than that of RBY and GSC. In RBY and GSC you could max everything out at +100, and what you got in each stat out of that was determined by base stats I'm pretty sure, while in RSE you actually have to think, because you can put anything up to 255 but you can only go to 510 in total (and each stat gets 1/4 what you put into it, unless it's affected by personality in which case the personality modifier is applied afterward.)
Since all the moves and such are equally affected by the RNG and the IVs are basically the old DV system with a little less than twice the entries, the only additional things added affected by RNG are which personality you get and in some cases which trait you get. In the long run, personalities and traits don't matter too much unless you happen to get a set that actively works against you, but this is balanced by the fact that more often than not you get a set you can work with. Any boost gotten by tedious work for hours on each thing is going to be pretty marginal. Therefore, the RNG plays much less of a result in the end than it did previously. There are also a few things removed from GSC which were entirely luck-based (lol berserk gene). It's also been revamped quite a bit and is more random than it used to be. This last part in particular leads me toward one of two conclusions. 1. HyperHacker thinks that the RNG is faulty because he is somehow under the impression that random results should be evenly distributed in small numbers of tests. 2. HyperHacker is terribly biased and is simply looking for fault where there is none. |
|||
|
HyperHacker Star Mario Finally being paid to code in VB! If only I still enjoyed that. <_< Wii #7182 6487 4198 1828 Since: 11-18-05 From: Canada, w00t! My computer's specs, if anyone gives a damn. STOP TRUNCATING THIS >8^( Last post: 6328 days Last view: 6328 days |
| ||
Originally posted by ThexareOriginally posted by HyperHacker My save file's disappeared into thin air, so going through this random file I pulled off Zophar.net... Claydol - psychic? Invulnerable to Ground? Beldum - the picture offers no clue at all that this thing is steel or psychic, or even what the hell it is. Barboach, Swampert - ground? A water and ground type, what the hell? Gulpin - poison? Koffing - invulnerable to ground? Does make sense, but annoying nonetheless. Numel - fire? Jirachi - steel? Poochyena - dark? I could go on... these are only the ones that strike me as making no sense or having the picture not match the types at all. In the majority of cases the picture provides little if any insight as to the type. Maybe this is better in Sapphire (do R/S have different pics like G/S did?).
I mean there seemed to be more attacks where random numbers played a signifigant part in determining the effects and total damage. Not a whole lot more, but still a fair bit. Few things had any apparent pattern to them, and when they did, it didn't make too much sense. As for the music, it just sounds so muffled and has too many really high notes. G/S/C's was crisp and blended together nicely while R/S's sounded like a few completely unrelated sounds playing simultaneously, at least one of which tended to be ear-splittingly high pitched. Originally posted by Kailieann You know, I'd actually be quite willing to believe that.  I actually had a few incidents where I'd run around in the grass for half an hour and only ever encounter one Pokémon over and over, and they'd always use the same attack, both attacks would always do the same amount of damage and nobody would ever miss, until I restarted the game. (Saving first of course.)
Could be that this was fixed in future revisions, as Nintendo does to some games. (There's three versions of Zelda OoT on the N64 - the original and two bugfix versions - and further fixes/changes were made in the Gamecube version.) The games aren't all bad; I loved the map designs and the graphics were great. I just didn't find them as fun given these flaws. Originally posted by Yoronosuku I didn't play those remakes, so that could well be. Alastor, you seem to have missed the point. It's nice that random numbers are less a factor in Pokémon stats, but that doesn't make it any less annoying when you miss 6 times in a row or you find the same wild Pokémon every single time. [edit - no point insulting anyone. ](edited by HyperHacker on 09-27-06 10:16 PM) (edited by HyperHacker on 09-27-06 10:17 PM) (edited by HyperHacker on 09-27-06 10:18 PM) |
|||
Cynthia Uh-huh. Since: 11-17-05 From: LaSalle, Quebec, Canada Last post: 6328 days Last view: 6328 days |
| ||
Geez, who knew we could get into such passionate arguments about the merits of different Pokemon game mechanics.  With some good (and interesting) points being brought up too, of course.
Just keep the snide comments to a minimum, guys. |
|||
|
Kailieann Since: 11-18-05 Last post: 6328 days Last view: 6328 days |
| ||
| Heh, I used to frequent the GameFAQs Pokemon boards. The Stat EXP vs. EV argument is pretty old hat.
I'm definately with Alastor, though. The EV system -- hell, the entire stat formula in general is pretty sweet. But I'm.. weird. So don't take my word for it. I can't wait to revise my patented "Most Annoying Team Ever" for the new games. And by revise I mean redesign from scratch, 'cause god only knows where I put the original list, if I even kept a copy of it. |
|||
|
Alastor Fearless Moderator Hero Since: 11-17-05 From: An apartment by DigiPen, Redmond, Washington Last post: 6328 days Last view: 6328 days |
| ||
Originally posted by HyperHackerClaydol - Yeah, because every psychic type in previous games definitely looked like it was psychic. Seriously, it does look like it's levitating to me. Beldum - You've gotta be kidding me. If you can't tell that thing is made out of metal, you are blind. Whiscash and Swampert look about 50 billion times more water/ground than Quagsire. Gulpin: Granted. Koffing: Right. It being immune to ground is flying is annoying, and that's bad, and no element in RBY and GSC was even the slightest bit annoying. Numel: Clearly volcanic. Volcanos are fire. Just because it's subtle doesn't make it not well-designed. Jirachi - Once again, clearly made out of metal. Poochyena: Dark coloration = dark. Okay, Gulpin doesn't look particularly like a poison-type. I'll grant you that. But there are just way too many things that don't look exactly like they're the type they are in RBY and especially in GSC for me to particularly care about this. Originally posted by HyperHackerHeadphones. Originally posted by HyperHackerNo, I believe you missed my point. There are more times random numbers do not need to be generated, and when they are the RNG system is much better. Your cases seem to be simply because random numbers are rarely distributed evenly through small samples. Your specific cases are not really the game's fault. Wild pokemon have uneven appearance rates; In many cases you are going to encounter the same things over and over. This is very much present in RBY and GSC. Just try catching a Pikachu in Viridian Forest without running into Weedle/Caterpie at least 15 times. As for the move things, if you don't want to miss, use more accurate moves. It's just that simple. I'm betting missing six times in a row only happened once or twice, unless you're using things like Sing, Thunder, or worse, one hit KOs. It's fairly likely for anything without perfect accuracy to have strings of misses if it's used long enough. (edited by Alastor the Stylish on 09-27-06 11:32 PM) |
|||
|
HyperHacker Star Mario Finally being paid to code in VB! If only I still enjoyed that. <_< Wii #7182 6487 4198 1828 Since: 11-18-05 From: Canada, w00t! My computer's specs, if anyone gives a damn. STOP TRUNCATING THIS >8^( Last post: 6328 days Last view: 6328 days |
| ||
Originally posted by Alastor the Stylish Can you name any that didn't?
Well given that it doesn't have any sort of metallic attributes, it looks more like plastic or clay than anything.
The water part is obvious, but the ground seems to come from nowhere. Quagsire didn't look it either but this was one out of 251.
Nobody said that.
A hump is not clearly volcanic.
Once again, no metallic attributes.
A lot of Pokémon have dark colours.
That's to be expected in R/B/Y, it has four colours and a screen resolution of 160x144. I rarely found myself unable to guess an opponent's type in G/S/C.
And that would help how, exactly?
This right here is why I feel you missed my point. It's not a matter of small samples. When you play for half an hour and get the same results every single time, that's a rather large sample.
Pikachu was meant to be rare in the forest. That's not the scenario here. I'm talking about cases where out of 4 or 5 Pokémon that are usually equally common, you'd only ever encounter one.
It happened quite often to both me and the AI, with as much as 90% accuracy. Even those with 95% felt a lot more like 75% tops. |
|||
|
Alastor Fearless Moderator Hero Since: 11-17-05 From: An apartment by DigiPen, Redmond, Washington Last post: 6328 days Last view: 6328 days |
| ||
Originally posted by HyperHackerCan you name five that did? Because plastic and clay definitely shine and look metallic. Quagsire is the other water/ground. I am illustrating the point that you cannot single out Advance in this matter. You clearly implied it. Perhaps you should look at Numel more. Specifically look at the hole on the top. Just because it's not silver doesn't make it not metallic. It has a reflective tint to it that clearly indicates metal. See Scizor for example. Yeah. Dark ones. Like Houndoom. And Umbreon. And Murkrow. But not Tyranitar. Things from RBY in GSC and Advance had color. As for typeguessing, if you really want me to list things from GSC that didnt look like their type... And note that I'm overlooking much more than you were... Natu doesn't look Psychic. Sudowoodo definitely doesn't look Rock. Aipom doesn't look Normal. Wooper doesn't look Ground. Quagsire doesn't look Ground. Slowking doesn't look Psychic. Unown doesn't look Psychic. Wobbuffet doesn't look Psychic. (First time I saw this, I thought it was part of the Quagsire line.) Girafarig doesn't look Psychic. Pineco doesn't look Bug. Forretress doesn't look Bug. Dunsparce doesn't look Normal. Gligar doesn't look Ground. Sneasel doesn't look Ice. Swinub doesn't look Ice/Ground. Piloswine doesn't look Ice/Ground. Houndour doesn't look Fire. Houndoom doesn't look Fire. Phanpy doesn't look Ground. Smoochum doesn't look Ice/Psychic. Entei doesn't look Fire. Larvitar doesn't look Rock/Ground. Pupitar doesn't look Rock/Ground. Tyranitar doesn't look Rock/Dark. Lugia doesn't look Psychic. Ho-oh doesn't look Fire. That's over 1/4 of them. And I could've gotten at least half of them if I wanted to be as anal as you were over crap like Numel. Okay, headphones are these funny-looking things and you wear them on your head and they make things that come out of crappy GBA speakers sound much better. No it's not. Blatantly wrong, as shown by the fact that you are the only one experiencing this. (edited by Alastor the Stylish on 09-27-06 11:55 PM) |
|||
Ailure Mr. Shine I just want peace...  Since: 11-17-05 From: Sweden Last post: 6328 days Last view: 6328 days |
| ||
| Hyperhacker most likely remember the times more when he felt unlucky with the RNG than when it went normal.
Thing with any kind of situationw here random numbers is involved, you might get really unlucky and miss 100 times in row. Also I'm waiting for Pokémon Uran and Pokémon Americanium to come out. D: (edited by Ailure on 09-28-06 03:44 AM) |
|||
Dr_Death16   970 Since: 05-07-06 From: Iowa Last post: 6328 days Last view: 6328 days |
| ||
Originally posted by AilureDid I miss something? Are they switching the naming system to the bottom layer of the periodic table of elements? So... are we going to see a Pokémon Einsteinium anytime soon?  (edited by Dr_Death16 on 09-28-06 12:07 PM) |
|||
Trapster King Dedede Since: 11-19-05 From: Sweden Last post: 6436 days Last view: 6328 days |
| ||
| I wanna see Pokémon Plutonium. They could make the third regular pokémon game for DS with that name. And with new attacks like Nuclear Blast. |
|||
|
Alastor Fearless Moderator Hero Since: 11-17-05 From: An apartment by DigiPen, Redmond, Washington Last post: 6328 days Last view: 6328 days |
| ||
Originally posted by Fire Trapsteryou killed the joke. The joke was fine, and then you walked up and you murdered its heart out. |
|||
|
Schweiz oder etwas [12:55] (Dr_Death16); I swear, the word drama needs to be stricken from the dictionary, for I've heard it so many times, it will permanently be imprinted on my brain  Since: 11-17-05 From: Kingston, Rhode Island Last post: 6328 days Last view: 6328 days |
| ||
| It's okay, Kyouji... There's always Pokemon Ununbium. It'll be just like Phoenix Wright: Available in stores for about as long as it exists in a verifiable state of matter after being synthesized in an ion accelerator. | |||
|
HyperHacker Star Mario Finally being paid to code in VB! If only I still enjoyed that. <_< Wii #7182 6487 4198 1828 Since: 11-18-05 From: Canada, w00t! My computer's specs, if anyone gives a damn. STOP TRUNCATING THIS >8^( Last post: 6328 days Last view: 6328 days |
| ||
Originally posted by Alastor the StylishOriginally posted by HyperHackerCan you name five that did? Abra, Kadabra, Alakazam, Drowzee, Hypno. Need any more? Because plastic and clay definitely shine and look metallic. My point exactly. These don't shine or (again) have any metallic attributes to them. Quagsire is the other water/ground. I am illustrating the point that you cannot single out Advance in this matter. It was never a problem in previous games. Maybe some of them weren't glaringly obvious, but there was at least some indication in most cases. You clearly implied it. Stop putting words in my mouth. Perhaps you should look at Numel more. Specifically look at the hole on the top. Ohhhhh, the lump has a hole in it! That makes it so obvious! Quite a few things have holes in them without being volcanoes. Plus the fact that the shape of the hump is quite opposite that of a volcano. Just because it's not silver doesn't make it not metallic. It has a reflective tint to it that clearly indicates metal. See Scizor for example. Yes, Scizor does. Jirachi doesn't. Yeah. Dark ones. Like Houndoom. And Umbreon. And Murkrow. But not Tyranitar. And Aggron, Spoink, Torkoal, Duskull, Girafarig, Shuppet, Lairon, etc.
Aipom is a monkey with no special attributes. What type would you say he looks like? Quagsire's tail and feet suggest it lives in mud. Slowking has a large living creature with a glowing spot on it on its head. Unown is a mysterious floating creature in an ancient ruin. Psychic only makes sense. Wobbuffet appears to be concentrating heavily. Girafarig has two heads. Pineco is a pine cone. Pine cones are usually found near bugs. Based on its appearance and this simple fact you can assume it's steel, bug or grass, and it doesn't look much like grass. Foretress looks like a pine cone too. Gligar has spikes all over its body like many animals that live in the ground. Swinub looks like a mole, and has thick fur suited to living in cold places, which implies ice. Piloswine is clearly evolved from Swinub and has the same features. Houndour has light and dark spots and points on its body like many fire Pokémon. The first thing that comes to mind when I see this colour scheme and body shape is dark/fire. Houndoom is clearly evolved from Houndour and has the same features. Phanphy is clearly based on elephants which could only be ground or normal. Smoochum looks like Jynx which is clearly pshychic, and if you'd ever fought or owned a Jynx you'd know they're ice. Entei is a large dog with a red spot on its face. It's also part of a fire/ice/electric trio, and it's clearly not ice or electirc. Larvitar looks like a small burrowing animal. Pupitar is clearly evolved from Larvitar and is grayish blue like some rocks. Tyranitar is clearly evolved from Pupitar and has spikes the same colour as its body which implies rock. Lugia has all this mystery surrounding it in the game and is horribly powerful. Psychic just fits perfectly. Ho-oh is coloured like a fire. The feathers on its head even look like one. Okay, headphones are these funny-looking things and you wear them on your head and they make things that come out of crappy GBA speakers sound much better. This smartass attitude is completely unnecessary. Every other GBA game I've played sounds just fine. I don't see how moving the speakers closer to me is going to help. No it's not. So what is? Let's assume one battle every 4 minutes. In an average battle where both Pokémon are of approximately equal strength (usually the case as I'd be doing this to level up), it takes 3 to 5 hits to win. So that's 7.5 battles, with me attacking 3 to 5 times in each assuming no misses or critical hits. The enemy would also be attacking 2 to 5 times depending who goes first. So in half an hour we have 7.5 battles and a total of 37.5 to 75 attacks. For each battle, a random number determines which enemy you fight. For each attack one random number determines whether you will miss, hit, or critical hit and another is used in calculating the total damage dealt. So that's 45 to 82.5 random numbers. I think if a RNG gives the same results 45 times in a row, it can be considered broken. Blatantly wrong, as shown by the fact that you are the only one experiencing this. You mean the only one mentioning it. Like I said this could have been fixed in later versions, which Nintendo and their third-party developers do frequently. Should I write up a quick list of games this was done in? |
|||
|
Kailieann Since: 11-18-05 Last post: 6328 days Last view: 6328 days |
| ||
| Don't make me put you two in time-out.
If you must continue this, do so in private messages. |
|||
asdf Link's Awakening ಠ_ಠ  Since: 11-18-05 Last post: 6330 days Last view: 6328 days |
| ||
Originally posted by Ailure Actually, I'm pretty sure it was leaked on the 26th, but was supposed to come out on the 28th. One thing I don't like about the new Pokemon is that there are too many goddamned rats and mice. And to a lesser extent, cats. A good chunk of the new ones are new stages of evolution to old ones. A good chunk of them are terrible (especially Aipom's evolution: OMG LIEK IT HAS ANOTHER TAIL WHOOP WHOOP), although things like the lion, Dorapion and "Jewpass" more than make up for the lameness about. And by the way, screw transition metals and actinides. Nintendo needs to go with the noble gases for the version-naming format for the next game. Pokemon Argon. Pokemon Neon. And Pokemon Ununoctium. Watch out, it's highly unstable and will decompose into other versions in less than a second! |
| Pages: 1 2 3 4 | Add to favorites | Next newer thread | Next older thread |
| Acmlm's Board - I3 Archive - General Gaming - Pokemon Diamond and Pearl |
| |
