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| Acmlm's Board - I3 Archive - World Affairs/Debate - Prejudice against the Obese |
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Tarale    2710 Affected by 'Princess Bitch-Face Syndrome' ++++!! Persona non grata                    Since: 11-17-05 From: Adelaide, Australia Last post: 6278 days Last view: 6278 days |
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| Today, there's some news about Obesity, and the trouble with getting medical drug trials for Obesity.
Some of the problem with getting drug trials for the obese is that there is an idea that Obesity is not an actual "disease" both inside and outside of the medical profession. And there's a bit of people blaming obese people for their plight too. I've noticed when I was bigger that sometimes people give you funny looks when you buy certain foods, and it actually really bothered me when I was losing weight, had already lost 10kg or so and was still having people give me judgemental looks if I dared to buy chocolate... I've had one person tell me not to eat the chocolate. 
... anyway, I've lost where I was going with this... uh.. discuss? |
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windwaker Ninji i'm not judgemental, i'm cynical Lonely People of the World, Unite! Since: 12-27-05 Last post: 6308 days Last view: 6286 days |
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| I disagree with prejudice against the obese.
Come on geeogree. I'm waiting. Argue me. |
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Ailure Mr. Shine I just want peace...  Since: 11-17-05 From: Sweden Last post: 6279 days Last view: 6278 days |
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Sometimes I hold off buying sweets and stuff of that reason. People do give you funny looks indeed if you are over the normal weight and buy sweet stuff. I'm supposed to starve myself to death all the time when overweight? And yes I'm losing weight. I train alot now and then too. 
However, I don't think you need medicine against obesity unless it's really extreme (over 150 KG) and you have problems losing weight and stuff. :/ (edited by Ailure the sexy catboy on 09-09-06 04:05 AM) |
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Sookan 0  Since: 09-03-06 From: UK Last post: 6441 days Last view: 6441 days |
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| I don't have a lot of sympathy for obese people, if it's self inflicted. People with an illness that causes it, I can sympathise with them for the prejudice they receive, for it's not their fault.
But with today's increasingly obese population, people are looking for the easy solution, stomach reductions, lypo, that kind of thing. The problem with that, is, that they soon be able to get in on the national health service for free, here in britain. Meaning our taxpayers are paying for people who are overweight to lose weight. What the heck? Fair enough if it's not your fault, but for people who just eat for the sake of eating? We shouldn't be paying for others' gluttony. I'm neither underweight nor overweight, so I would hope that my opinion isn't biased. It's just that I don't particularly want to grow up in a world where I'll be forced to hand over my hard earned cash to fund other people's eating habits. I'm not sure who'd pay for a dude's stomach reduction in America though. If it's them and their family, that could be fair enough. In the way of people being prejudiced... I'd never judge someone by their appearance. I don't do it. I don't go up to a bald guy and ask him if his head is cold, or a gay guy and ask them if my shoes look okay. Similarly, it's nobody else's business how people eat. So long as the population isn't paying for your obesity, I say eat all you like. |
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Tarale 2710 Affected by 'Princess Bitch-Face Syndrome' ++++!! Persona non grata Since: 11-17-05 From: Adelaide, Australia Last post: 6278 days Last view: 6278 days |
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| With regard to Obesity, taxpayers will pay for things either way:
With drugs and stuff to help obese people lose weight, we're still paying for it. Stomach reductions, all of that. But if people don't lose weight, then they inevitably have all kinds of other health problems -- which we wind up paying for. Diabetes being one of the obvious ones and one which spawns other problems in addition... So either way, we're paying for it. The costs of treating the health problems associated with obesity may well be much more than the costs of taking obesity seriously and treating it before other medical complications arise... But I think that being overweight is misunderstood -- see a bit of post above, about eating for the sake of eating -- the thing is, as people gain more weight, they need to eat more because their energy requirements go up. Just to sit and watch TV even, they need more energy than a slimmer person does. Bigger energy requirements mean that you're likely to eat more food... It's a misunderstanding that people eat just for the sake of eating -- or rather, that obese people are the only ones that do (I think everybody does at some point, to some extent). I think it's just one of those problems that... well... snowballs... The article dealt with the problem of getting drug trials out there for obese people; ones who despite proper diet and exercise, are not able to lose the weight -- but the medical profession seems to largely refuse to acknowledge this as a problem that might respond to drug therapy / blame the obese person rather than help them. 
And then there's the fact that people's energy requirements change for reasons besides their weight -- stress, medications that they are on, illnesses and medical conditions, pregnancy, etc, etc -- it's actually not that surprising that many people struggle with their weight  |
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Sookan 0 Since: 09-03-06 From: UK Last post: 6441 days Last view: 6441 days |
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| One would hope that an obese person not comfortable with his or her appearance would attempt to make an effort to lose weight. People say they have tried everything and cannot; that would either be because of an illness or a slow metabolism. Again, not their faults. But in the case of people who decide to go on a diet, and get exercise and whatnot.... there is a lot of willpower involved. If you're expecting to shed pounds overnight and by wishing them away, you're not going to get very far.
I lack sympathy for those too lazy to even try. Who go straight for the easy option because of their own doing they managed to get insanely obese. I mean, all humans eat for the sake of eating. We can happily live for years on one or two meals a day but we have three, or four! Animals eat to live, humans live to eat. I know these people need treating, obvious we don't want people running around with heart, artery and blood problems, due to their obesity. But when people think, 'Ah, scroo it. I may as well just eat what I like because whatever happens to me, my doctor can just prescribe me medicine/send me in for an operation and it'll go away so it doesn't matter.' People need to see that they are not just free to throw away their lives because it affects other people, too. Rather selfish, i'd say. As for people having a larger energy requirement... that might be so. I can see how dragging around the weight total equivalent of two or three extra people could make one rather tired. But then supposing they were able to lose weight as any other person does, they'd perhaps eat foods that gave them energy but not extra fat. Or even just grit their teeth and bear it, if they truly wanted to lose weight. If it is not a person's fault that they are obese and need treatment(drugs, pregnanc, ect) then yes, they do deserve treatment. But no one else has any excuse, I think. My point is, that you people can't stuff themselves with sweets, cakes and fast food then look to surgery as a quick fix when they get fat. That's wrong, on so many levels, in my opinion. |
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Tarale 2710 Affected by 'Princess Bitch-Face Syndrome' ++++!! Persona non grata Since: 11-17-05 From: Adelaide, Australia Last post: 6278 days Last view: 6278 days |
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| Okay, I realise a news article isn't exactly the best source, but they did cite a doctor as saying that the metabolism of an overweight person is not significantly different to that of a person within their healthy weight range. They said -- as I pointed out before -- that the energy requirements goes up instead. Which would have the equivalent effect I guess of a "slow" metabolism, I suppose, to some extent.
But the thing is, my mother's overweight. More than I was, and not because of medication she was/is on. And she walks nearly 6km every morning before work, she swims, she runs, she eats better (healthier) than I do, and nothing makes any difference for her.
She's not just saying "ah, screw it". She's trying -- but it just 'ain't working. As far as I know there's no medical condition that is keeping her overweight or anything either, and she's certainly putting in a massive amount of effort -- she's "fit", but still overweight.
And yet people look at her, and think she's a lazy, fat good-for-nothing. They think she's not making any effort. Yet another overweight drain on society, shoving cakes into her mouth?? 
And she's not alone in that.
I'm lucky, in that I was able to lose a lot of weight; but I don't know why that was -- I do know that since coming off the medication I was on, a bit afterwards, it just "fell" off. So maybe I'm lucky in that there was an obvious trigger for me or something. But not everyone is that lucky; and not everyone has an identifiable trigger for why they cannot lose weight.
Yes, diet and exercise goes a long way... but it won't fix everything. And that's what the doctors are trying to work on -- drug solutions for those who can't do it with diet and exercise alone and need something to give that weight a little extra shove. Not an "easy way out"; a way to help those who need it. I doubt anyone submits themself to surgery anyway as a "quick fix" Having had surgery (and not for cosmetic or morbid obesity related reasons), you'd have to be a serious masochist. Losing weight the hard way is more fun.  (edited by Tarale on 09-09-06 08:35 AM) |
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Arwon Bazu Since: 11-18-05 From: Randwick, Sydney, NSW, Australia Last post: 6280 days Last view: 6279 days |
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| Obesity is one of those things people like to get really judgemental and sanctimonious about and don't realise what preachy, smarmy assholes they're making of themselves. Other things that elicit similar smug tirades are depression, feminism and vegetarianism. (edited by Arwon on 09-09-06 10:54 AM) |
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Tarale 2710 Affected by 'Princess Bitch-Face Syndrome' ++++!! Persona non grata Since: 11-17-05 From: Adelaide, Australia Last post: 6278 days Last view: 6278 days |
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Originally posted by Arwon Yeah, I've been on the receiving end of the Depression one The Depression medication curiously enough is what put the weight on, too....
I'd be more interested in WHY people get all judgemental and sanctimonious about these issues? In neither case has Medical Science turned around and explicitly blamed Depressed or Obese persons.... (they just admit they don't understand it well) |
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ibz10g Spiny Since: 08-10-06 From: Altoona, Iowa Last post: 6323 days Last view: 6323 days |
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| Everything would just be a lot better if nobody protested anything, or better yet, had anything to protest about. Obesity is affecting the nation (you may have noticed McDonalds has a bunch of wellness policies going on), but it isn't really anyone's fault except for the proveyor of the goods. I don't have any problems with this, like I haven't been affected with some kind of eating disorder, but I think that if people really want to continue to purchase the things they like (since I don't see anybody outlawing sweets and sugar any time soon) and if they really want to take initiative to stop, then thats when they do.
A good example of this is my school. Everything at lunch has been rationed down a considerable amount. I don't really approve of this, but it isn't like I'm going to protest it. So yeah, there are definately a lot of bigger people at my school, which is ok, but that's a life choice, right? So in conclusion, I can see what all this wellness stuff is getting at, but I don't think we need it. Its just a matter of time before the government deports us for a while and replaces us with ethiopians. |
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Skreename Giant Red Paratroopa Since: 11-18-05 Last post: 6285 days Last view: 6278 days |
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| The main issue with obesity is that people typically consider those who are overweight to be gluttonous or lazy, which isn't always the case. Especially since, often enough, if something else triggers a large enough weight-spike, it becomes pretty much impossible to go back down to "normal", even if the original trigger vanishes.
Essentially, if someone gets heavy enough, there's no way to go back down to being "thin", because the closest to "normal" they can be is still however many pounds/kgs over what would be considered healthy. At that point, I'd consider almost any legitimate treatment (no tapeworms, please) to be worthwhile. (I've got a bit of a personal bias in this argument. My dad was one of those people... Sleep apnea leading to extreme obesity. His best success with diet and exercise (which he did faithfully) got him down from morbidly obese to just obese, I think... Got a gastric bypass, looks normal now and is a lot healthier. Cured his diabetes, too.) |
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Deleted User Banned    Since: 05-08-06 Last post: None Last view: 6279 days |
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| my coach at Macauthor made my freind get a scedule change because he was to overweight. I dont know if that is prejudice or not. But it sure seemed like it. (edited by beneficii on 09-10-06 04:59 PM) |
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Tarale 2710 Affected by 'Princess Bitch-Face Syndrome' ++++!! Persona non grata Since: 11-17-05 From: Adelaide, Australia Last post: 6278 days Last view: 6278 days |
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| I dunno if that counts as some kind of prejudice or not there -- but I also think that obesity is a serious issue that needs to be tackled.
In some cases it's not that people are eating too much food; but that they're eating the wrong food. I think that kids need to be taught better about the right kinds of foods -- and I certainly think that school cafeterias need to make sure they serve more of the right kinds of foods too. I think that young people also need to know the importance of daily exercise. The younger apparently you are, the more likely you will be able to lose weight you've put on. And if you catch it while you're still putting on weight you can be lucky too apparently... |
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windwaker Ninji i'm not judgemental, i'm cynical Lonely People of the World, Unite! Since: 12-27-05 Last post: 6308 days Last view: 6286 days |
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| I think that once people become obese, they'll research how to become skinny. Then they'll attempt things with varying degrees of success; I don't think education is the problem.
And what about obese adults? They can't blame their obesity on being fed stuff as a child. |
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Rydain Sir Kibble Blaze Phoenix Runs with the Dragon Within  Since: 11-18-05 From: State College, PA Last post: 6283 days Last view: 6279 days |
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| I think education is needed. Many people don't understand that losing bodyfat and keeping it off requires them to permanently change the way they eat. They go on a diet, lose some bodyfat, return to their old eating habits that got them fat to begin with, and think that the diet didn't work because the fat came back on. They are tempted by quick fixes (like the "lose 10 pounds in a weekend" juice fasts that take off a bunch of temporary water weight and little else) because lifestyle changes can involve a heck of a lot of effort, especially if the person is battling emotional associations with food (such as eating for comfort or out of boredom) and negative reactions from friends and family who are bothered that the person no longer wants to go out to eat at restaurants that serve unhealthy food, stuff their face at family gatherings (in some circles, it's considered an insult to the chef if you don't eat until you're about to explode), or have a morning donut like everyone else at the office. Sometimes people have to learn how to get past those problems as well. Sure, you can Just Say No(tm) and suggest social gatherings that don't revolve around food that doesn't fit your diet, but it can help to have encouragement and ideas on how to get this through to people. You or I might not give a crap about what somebody is or isn't eating, but a lot of folks are pretty ridiculous about it. Diet sabotage is surprisingly common. Here's one article about it, and you can find many more on Google. | |||
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Tarale 2710 Affected by 'Princess Bitch-Face Syndrome' ++++!! Persona non grata Since: 11-17-05 From: Adelaide, Australia Last post: 6278 days Last view: 6278 days |
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| I think that my boss is trying the Diet Sabotage thing.... she keeps trying to get me to have cake. She knows I'm behaving myself!
That said I think I encourage another guy at work to eat junk along with me when I do eat the wrong thing |
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sandrocklq Red Cheep-cheep  Since: 07-31-06 Last post: 6416 days Last view: 6416 days |
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| Regarding the dirty looks that fat people get when buying chocolate I can offer this. I was once buying a candy bar in the check out line and this other lady in line was telling me not to buy it because it was causing my acne. I felt like grabbing the nearest National Enquirer and stuffing it down her throat. People need to mind their own business. | |||
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||bass Administrator  Since: 11-17-05 From: Salem, Connecticut Last post: 6280 days Last view: 6278 days |
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| I'm here obviously to offer a counter viewpoint since most people know my opinion about food already. I've never had a weight problem ever in my life and it's due to one simple fact: I only eat 2 small meals a day, just enough to not die. Since I don't engage in much physical activity, I only need about 1200 to 1400 calories per day to continue to live in the first place. Back on to the topic though, no food in existance is so addictive that it should ever cause people lifestyle problems. I don't see what's the big problem with cutting back intake until it balances with actual daily energy use. It's a simple matter of analyzing your daily calorie expenditure, and ceasing to eat each day when you hit that mark. I don't see where "good" and "bad" behavior ever come into the picture. | |||
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Sinfjotle Lordly? No, not quite.  Since: 11-17-05 From: Kansas Last post: 6280 days Last view: 6278 days |
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| That still requires will power and effort. Something people don't really want to put on the table, so to speak. | |||
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||bass Administrator Since: 11-17-05 From: Salem, Connecticut Last post: 6280 days Last view: 6278 days |
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| Will power should never be issue with anything. We have a God-given ability to control our actions, inability to control one's self is just a complete slap in the face to that. |
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