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| Acmlm's Board - I3 Archive - World Affairs/Debate - Ohio, you should be kicked out of the Union |
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Young Guru Snifit                    Since: 11-18-05 From: Notre Dame, IN Last post: 6290 days Last view: 6283 days |
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| Article.
So, Ohio is implementing a social registry of accused sexual offenders. This is outrageous, especially the claims that this is only a registry and will not affect those accused, even though they go through no trial to get on the registry. This goes directly against the concept of protection from undue process. I know a guy who got accused of rapping a woman a few years ago, and after some investigation the police determined that the accusation was totaly unfounded and that he was innocent. That didn't matter though, the damage was done, he had to move out of the area (he actually left the state) because he couldn't stand the way people looked at him and treated him, because to them he was a rappist. The same thing is going to happen here, people will be accused, but this time, it won't just be the public blacklisting them, it'll actually be the government, restricting where they can live, making them go through their neighborhoods telling everyone that they are an accused (but not convicted) sex offender. I'm pretty sure that most people will hear that as "I'm a sex offender" and just not pay attention to that key word, accused. I am for making those who are convicted sexual offenders go through this process, because it is a necessary way of protecting those who could be in danger, but to implement these procedures on people who haven't been proven guilty (because as I last heard the burden is on the prosecution to prove guilt and not the defendant to prove innocence) is such an abhorent violation of civil liberties. I really hope that this gets the kabosh by Courts before innocent people get hurt by it. What do you all think of this? |
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Sabishii Red Paragoomba  Since: 02-26-06 From: Georgia Last post: 6450 days Last view: 6450 days |
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| I have to say I agree with you Guru. This seems a little off base to me.It takes away from the legal stance of innocent until proven guilty that we're supposed to have.
"A recently enacted law allows county prosecutors, the state attorney general, or, as a last resort, alleged victims to ask judges to civilly declare someone to be a sex offender even when there has been no criminal verdict or successful lawsuit." That makes me see a whole new Salem witch trials affair. You'd have everyone accusing everyone else with little or no reasoning and in the long run the accusations would ruin reputations, kind of like the friend Guru mentioned. It seems to be falling into a trend of things though, it's like people have no objections to making their lives open book if it could increase security even fractionally. "A civilly declared offender, however, could petition the court to have the person's name removed from the new list after six years if there have been no new problems and the judge believes the person is unlikely to abuse again." That's the part that really irks me though. That's an obscene request. Not only would you have to have your reputation ruined for a minimum of six years, but you'd also have to get a pertition to have your name removed and that's if you have zero screw ups and no one suspects anything. After six years and repetively having to tell people "I'm an accused sex offender, but not convicted" and then to go around asking people to sign a petition to have your name removed from that list? It's so unlikely that you'd actually get enough support for that that the whole request is obscene. Then, supposing you do, it can be overturned if the judge "believes" the person is unlikely to abuse again? EVEN when they might never have abused it in the first place? Guru hit it on the head, this whole mess is absolutely preposterous. It's supposed to be innocent until proven guilty and I, for one, don't feel that it's worth it to sacrifice many for the sake of keeping track of a few. The marginal cost to the people, the legal system and the accused doesn't match up with the marginal benefit the people receive from the whole affair. |
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sandrocklq Red Cheep-cheep  Since: 07-31-06 Last post: 6420 days Last view: 6420 days |
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| This is a horrendous idea. I don't ahve much to add that has already been said, but the negative benefits of this far outweigh any positive ones. | |||
drjayphd Torosu OW! BURNY!  Since: 11-18-05 From: CT Last post: 6286 days Last view: 6284 days |
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| Seriously, how did this law go through? If I have the means to do so, I'm launching a test case now. | |||
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geeogree Red Cheep-cheep Since: 11-17-05 Last post: 6298 days Last view: 6283 days |
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| [shakes head]....
so we all just like sex offenders and are okay with them living in your community? I would be more than happy if this sort of thing was set up where I live. The process may not be perfect.... but I would rather have a list of sex offenders than not. 
[edit] after reading the article.... how do you identify sex offenders.... if they haven't been charged?.... kind of missing a step there aren't you? [/edit] (edited by geeogree on 09-04-06 06:39 PM) |
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windwaker Ninji i'm not judgemental, i'm cynical Lonely People of the World, Unite! Since: 12-27-05 Last post: 6313 days Last view: 6291 days |
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Originally posted by geeogree How can you be so dishonest? You know that this has nothing to do with a list of sex offenders, this is a list of accused sex offenders. Why must you always be the devil's advocate, even if it means forcing yourself to misunderstand the thread in question? |
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drjayphd Torosu OW! BURNY! Since: 11-18-05 From: CT Last post: 6286 days Last view: 6284 days |
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Originally posted by geeogree I think that's the whole point. It's not about road-tested offenders, it's about those who've just been accused. No due process. |
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geeogree Red Cheep-cheep Since: 11-17-05 Last post: 6298 days Last view: 6283 days |
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| well that is just silly.... it will never last in the courts
someone will fight it... and it will get overturned. I really would not worry about it too much. oh and windwaker.... please stop calling me a liar |
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windwaker Ninji i'm not judgemental, i'm cynical Lonely People of the World, Unite! Since: 12-27-05 Last post: 6313 days Last view: 6291 days |
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Originally posted by geeogree Well, I didn't want to call you an idiot, but in the end... you just had to read the article. |
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Zer0wned Koopa Since: 12-09-05 From: Torrance, ca Last post: 6441 days Last view: 6441 days |
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| On the one hand I can understand why people would want this. I would have to assume that usually people get accused for a good reason, and get let off due to lack of evidence.
But on the other hand (the hand I'm in favor in on this topic), I know how quarreling people can get. Especially quarreling poor people. Homeless and welfare types will accuse anyone of anything to get what they want. Personally I've been able to watch at least six restraining orders. Their causes? Frivilous bullshit arguments caused by people that don't know how to handle their problems. There's no doubt this would get abused. The whole "my husband hits me" *beats the shit out of herself for the courts, gets the house and kids, lands the guy in jail* gets attempted quite a bit. It's not completely effective, but my uncle had that happen to him. He lost over half a million, his house, spent some time in jail, and the right to see his daughter full time, all because his wife's mom started in on crazy talk, telling her to do this. He's been aquitted because the courts knew she was full of it (and he had a good team of lawyers), but regardless he no longer lives in arizona because of the whole ordeal. I'm telling you, the average woman is out of her mind. This law WILL be abused. |
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Ziff B2BB BACKTOBASICSBITCHES Since: 11-18-05 From: A room Last post: 6283 days Last view: 6283 days |
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| zer0wned
That's everyone. Not just the poor and homeless. |
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Zer0wned Koopa Since: 12-09-05 From: Torrance, ca Last post: 6441 days Last view: 6441 days |
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Originally posted by Plus Sign Abomination Originally posted by Zer0wned Though I did tangent off a bit after that, I meant that it's a much more common practice in that bracket. But yeah, I admittedly failed to iterate that. |
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Shadic The Adventure of Link Perfect Member Since: 11-18-05 From: Olympia, Washington Last post: 6290 days Last view: 6286 days |
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| The whole thing is bullshit, all you'd have to do to completely ruin somebody's reputation would be to say "OMG! He raped me!!!!"
Bam, they've got this label on them for 6 years. This is Salem again, ugh. |
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Tatrion <_<; Since: 11-17-05 Last post: 6284 days Last view: 6283 days |
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Originally posted by Shadic Heh, Salem. That reminds me of the whole McCarthy thing about communism. One of the people he had labelled as a communist, Arthur Miller, still failed to get respect from his peers even 50 years after said event. People refused to clap for him since he was blacklisted as a communist, way back then, and eventually, it was proven wrong anyway. |
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Skreename Giant Red Paratroopa Since: 11-18-05 Last post: 6290 days Last view: 6283 days |
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Originally posted by TatrionOriginally posted by Shadic Didn't he write the Crucible? Or am I thinking of someone else? Either way, on the actual subject, I don't think I have anything useful to add... Everyone else has covered it well enough. (edited by Skreename on 09-05-06 05:44 PM) |
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drjayphd Torosu OW! BURNY! Since: 11-18-05 From: CT Last post: 6286 days Last view: 6284 days |
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Originally posted by SkreenameOriginally posted by TatrionOriginally posted by Shadic Right you are, Ken. He did, verily, write "The Crucible". And gee, wonder what it was really about. (ahem) |
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SuperLuigi64 Snifit  Since: 07-22-06 From: TN My PC Specs Last post: 6377 days Last view: 6377 days |
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| I would quote you, but the quote thing is covered up by Skreename's layout.
Yeah, the Crucible. We read that in English a few weeks back. I think the whole thing applies to this article. If your accused (I.E. "Raped Woman/Man" =Abagail Williams, "Rapist"=John Proctor) then well, your screwed. Your seperated from society in Ohio, and well, everywhere for the rest of your life. The only way out is to move to another country. (edited by SuperLuigi64 on 09-05-06 07:50 PM) |
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Jomb Deddorokku  Since: 12-03-05 From: purgatory Last post: 6286 days Last view: 6286 days |
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| Somehow this does'nt surprise me, the paranoia in our country, especially about the dreaded "sex offender" is spiraling out of control, and has been for many years now. The very idea of having any registry of people is a bad one. It benefits no one, because real serious predators simply offend in an area other than where they live, where no one knows about them, and the people who really could have had a chance to turn their life around are denied that by the registry. Its basically anti-rehabilitation legislation.
In my opinion what needs to be done is the removal of all registries, but the civil commitment of people with uncontrollable mental disorders causing them to rape people. |
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Rom Manic Since: 12-18-05 From: Detroit, WHAT?! Last post: 6283 days Last view: 6283 days |
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| As of today, the United States government has retracted it's agreement to stand by it's freedom of information policy. You are no longer allowed to know what goes on in the government via the federal register. Suffice it to say big brother is watching you.
...Heh, wouldn't that be a headline...I don't really agree with the blacklist, but I must say that people have a right to know if you have been accused. However, only if they WANT to know should they go and inquire, these people shouldn't have to go door to door telling people "Hey, so...I'm an accused pedophile, yourself?" |
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drjayphd Torosu OW! BURNY! Since: 11-18-05 From: CT Last post: 6286 days Last view: 6284 days |
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Originally posted by Rom Manic Tiny problem: It's not a policy, it's the LAW. There's no choice in the matter. Originally posted by Rom Manic Accused? How about if the accuser was out of their fucking gourds (like the ex-girlfriend of Dernell Stenson, who was considered a person of interest in his death) and there was no basis for their accusations? I mean, if you are a sex criminal (like McLusky sang their old singer was), then it's probably for the best that you do tell people, but it'd be even better if you'd come forward to the po-pos. But if you've just been accused, that's just another layer of explaining that doesn't need to happen. |
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| Acmlm's Board - I3 Archive - World Affairs/Debate - Ohio, you should be kicked out of the Union |
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