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| Acmlm's Board - I3 Archive - General Gaming - Final Fantasy going downhill? |
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witeasprinwow                  Since: 12-29-05 Last post: 6418 days Last view: 6418 days |
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Originally posted by Emptyeye Well, I sure as hell don't think FF1 has aged well. Are you sure you aren't being nostalgic? I never had FF1 until the SNES era, and when I got my hands on it I hated it. And yes, the "second half" of FFVI is a lot of unnecessary dungeon crawls and pointless padding to make the game longer. Still, what RPG hasn't fucking done that at some point? |
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Dr_Death16   970   Since: 05-07-06 From: Iowa Last post: 6309 days Last view: 6309 days |
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It is true; the second half of the game "The World of Ruin", could've been a lot better, with more of an involvement of the gamer. Seems like you're merely searching the earth for the characters, and not really accomplishing much else besides spending hours in dungeons. However, the game as a whole is still great. The worst part is that Kefka is mostly silent and uninvolved until you reach his tower and finish the game; its like he just ignores the fact that your party is re-forming in the world of ruin and could possibly pose a threat to him. All he does is destroy a few villages that you come to.  |
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Ogre Paragoomba  Since: 07-12-06 Last post: 6400 days Last view: 6400 days |
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| Are you just blind then? Let's see, Tifa helped Cloud come to terms with his false memories and regain his sanity. As for Sephiroth, he was driven by the urge to return the world in it's entirety to being Lifestream to avenge his mother Jenova for the wrong doing put upon her.
Kefka?....did some amusing crap, but you don't know why. If I wanted to idolize a crazy person, I'd look to Luca Blight instead. Now THERE was a vicious bastard. As for groundbreaking games, they can suceed and make bank, yeah. FF12 is doing that nicely in Japan right now. Other examples can be made of God of War and Katamari Damacy. God of War remade the action/adventure genre in a way, and Katamari basically made it's own genre. Oh, and btw: FF11 did suck balls. It tried to be EQ+FF, but that combo = fail. Wasting 3 hours killing Kirin for Wind Crystals is when I decided "Hey, fuck this game." |
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Dr_Death16 970 Since: 05-07-06 From: Iowa Last post: 6309 days Last view: 6309 days |
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Originally posted by Ogre First, we do know why he did what he did, experiments which gave him magic from the espers made him both hungry for power and also insane. And last time I checked... who here is idolizing him? He's just a good character is all. |
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witeasprinwow Since: 12-29-05 Last post: 6418 days Last view: 6418 days |
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Originally posted by Ogre How is Tifa helping Cloud a problem of Tifa that she overcomes? Cloud's problems really weren't that interesting, either. Other than the amnesia, all he really did is whine about how nobody liked him and how he hates his life. In the end he realizes that, hey, my life really isn't so bad, and I was just being a crybaby before. That's not really compelling to me. Also, I thought it was Holy that sends you back to the lifestream, and Meteor that destroys the lifestream. (edited by witeasprinwow on 07-16-06 04:06 PM) |
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Cara Zeltina 90 Since: 05-11-06 Last post: 6384 days Last view: 6384 days |
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Originally posted by Ogre Problem with Sephiroth is.. That is never conveyed especially clearly, and the story never gives any decent focus to HIS perspective of things. Worse, his character (before he found out what he really was) was pretty darn reasonable it seemed.. For him to suddenly just snap as he did seems almost outright ridiculous.. You can speculate that is was the Jenova cells within him that more or less controlled his actions.. but even if that is true, I find it interesting they didn't react sooner somehow and that he made no effort to resist the change. (It was more the opposite, he embraced it for no logical reason.) As for Kefka? Eh, Kefka was just batshit insane as Ziff mentioned earlier I think. His character isn't really suppose to be thought provoking, just some nutjob that gets away with hell and destroys the world over.. just cause he can. There is no why there really, so yea.. (As for why he is insane at all, read above as it was already addressed before me.) I wouldn't say he's worth idolizing anyway, but I can relate more to just plain insane\evil characters more than I can people like Sephiroth.. Sephiroth makes so little sense, even with all the pieces together. (I think Advent Children made it worse, too. He was quoted as wanting to basically do the same crap as his mother too, riding a meteorite and flying into other planets to ruin them, blah blah..) And while on that note, I don't think it was so much reverting the world into the lifestream, so much as just outright destroying it. Either way it kills everyone, but the former almost sounds like some kind of superior ideology.. Sephy just wanted everyone to die cause his mama was mistreated. As for FFXI.. I love you for that comment. <3 I spent a long time playing that game and left very, very bitter. Terrible game design, all work and very little reward.. Story is few and far in-between, community sucks, economy is inherently unstable and inflated.. Items are ridiculously hard to come by, and money isn't easily earned - even through crafting.. It is basically just a long grind.. And not just a long grind, but a long grind where you follow the same exact pattern everywhere - because your party refuses to try something new. ... Oh and crabs, lots of crabs. Originally posted by witeasprinwow Cloud was the most angst character.. ever. His memory plot wasn't compelling, you're right.. but worse, it was mostly pointless. It was a plot twist that really didn't twist anything interesting.. We could have gone without it entirely and the game would have made about the same amount of sense.. What's more, the whole Zack thing could have been filled in a numerous amount of different ways.. And also, why the hell did Tifa never even MENTION this to Cloud prior to his psycho memory lane trip? She wasn't that dense, she remembered it better than he, if not entirely so. She just let him go on pretending basically.. Which is just mind boggling really. VII fails in many ways despite being a fun game. (edited by Cara Zeltina on 07-16-06 04:51 PM) |
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Ogre Paragoomba Since: 07-12-06 Last post: 6400 days Last view: 6400 days |
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Originally posted by Dr_Death16Oh, so by your analysis, he was just a junkie. Even more reason for me to dislike his massive, undeserved, fanbase. She does stop him a few times in his retelling, but Barrett constantly tells her to shut her yap and let him continue, or stops to see what else he's going to say. Also, if you bother to do the scene in Zack's house with both Tifa and Aeris, it tends to shed a lot more light on the subject. As for Cloud and Sephiroth, yeah, they weren't awesome characters. They were okay, good designs, but too loved for not the best of reasons. But then again, I always tend to like the more unusual character choices. (GO WAKKA.) But in personality aspects, the both of them were still more interesting to me then thier counterparts from 6, Locke and Kefka. Come to think of it, I'm having trouble thinking of any major villian that was actually worth paying attention too. Seymour to a lesser degree for all his motives that are revealed. Mostly I just come up with ...Pokey. (Don't ask.) |
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Rydain Sir Kibble Blaze Phoenix Runs with the Dragon Within  Since: 11-18-05 From: State College, PA Last post: 6314 days Last view: 6310 days |
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Originally posted by witeasprinwowI'm with you there. I liked the game enough to play it through to the end (though I was swearing at its shortcomings a great deal of the time  ), and I appreciate that it was innovative for its time, but I think that as a classic, it's overrated. The battle engine makes molasses look like Speed Racer and suffers from the standard old problem of characters being unable to move on to the next enemy when set to attack one that just died. The magic system is clumsy and needlessly limiting. I disliked that there were more spells available for each level than your characters could hold and there was no way to replace spells you'd learn, so if you picked up a crappy spell, you were stuck with it forever. I'd never heard of D&D charges when I played the game, so the concept of points for magic levels came off as a nonsensical way to add challenge. I thought it was like going to the store and being told that you had to buy a $5 item with a $5 bill only. You couldn't use five $1's or break a $10. It seemed like you didn't get that many points - even for low-level spells - which made me rely on my fighters and the standard trick of stocking up on 99 of each healing and status restoring item before going anywhere.
I have yet to play the GBA revamp, which, from what I understand, removes the aspects of the game engine I found annoying and adds fun challenging optional dungeons to explore. FF1 does have its upsides - such as the ability to choose the classes of all your warriors, the ability to evolve them mid-game - and it would be great to enjoy all of that with a snappy and modernized game engine. At the time I played FF1, though, I was thinking that Dragon Warrior III had its strong points and executed them much better. Your characters were still teh st00pid about attacking a blank spot, but you could make characters of a variety of different classes (and even switch classes repeatedly to create, say, a magic-using soldier), the battle engine was fast and efficient, and magic was actually useful. Lest anyone accuses me of making an unfair comparison, I'd like to point out that FF1 was released in Japan in December 1987 and DW III came out three months later, so although DW III was further along in its series, they are both of the same generation. |
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reykreyth Micro-Goomba  Since: 07-15-06 From: A place Last post: 6487 days Last view: 6318 days |
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| The Final Fantasy series overall has kinda fallen off... I mean, look at FF 10: a game based almost entirely off of cutscenes. (really, I'm just ticked that from the time you start using Ultima, to the end of the animation, I can go and make a sandwich).
What happened to the quick, 3-4 second jobber that did 9999? That is a reason that I like VI better than most of the rest. But, I would take many of the other SNES RPGs over Final Fantasy anyday. Chrono Trigger, Breath of Fire (a damn good game series until Dragon Quarter), Robotrek, and Earthbound. Not to mention the two GBA RPGs from the Golden sun universe. |
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m3gaman Since: 12-28-05 From: Geelong, AUS Last post: 6511 days Last view: 6511 days |
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I tried 7, 3 times and never beat it... i kept getting onto the second disk and quiting from boredom... i dunno maybe its just cause its old or the text doent get the point of the characters across but i really couldnt keep going such a boring story  |
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Xeo Belmont Wiiiiiiiiiiiiin  Since: 11-17-05 Last post: 6309 days Last view: 6309 days |
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| For a humorous comparison in regards to the whole Kefka vs Sephiroth talk ...
Look at Sephiroth's angel form (final form), then look at Kefka's. ... Anyways, I never really enjoyed FF1 myself. I didn't mine the somewhat 'upgraded' remakes, but whenever I tried to go back and play the original on the NES it was just way too clunky and slow for me. I'm sure if I would have played it back during that time I would have liked it, but oh well. I can say the same for some of the older Dragon Quest games. I wasn't introduced to RPG's until the SNES era, with Super Mario RPG. Hell yeah. I still say Suikoden II's Luca Blight was the most insane villian in any RPG out there, far beyond Kefka. Sephiroth was not very compelling at all. It almost seemed as if he just turned sides when he read some books. Egh, I just overall can't stand any of the FFVII characters at all. The one character I thought that was most interesting, was truth be told ... Barrett. I don't know what it was about him, but he was actually interesting at times. At least during the beginning of the game. Despite FFVI easily being my favorite, I have to agree with others about the game going a little downhill when you reach the WoR. You just basically got slapped there, and really didn't have much to do ... except gather everyone up again, and go fight Kefka. I just try to look at that part of the game as one chapter, but blah. Its interesting to see this topic go on and on, and most people tend to bring up only FFVI and FFVII. Rydain: I thought of the GBA remake of FF1 no different than the PSX remake. It just ran faster. The gameplay was changed just slightly, making it even faster and easier. I honestly did not care for the extra dungeons at all. If you are interested in dungeon crawling for hours upon end, doing them for ... really nothing but an item or so, then you might like it. I just thought they got annoying. The GBA version of FFII however, I thought was pretty fun. (edited by Racer Xeo on 07-17-06 12:03 PM) (edited by Racer Xeo on 07-17-06 12:06 PM) (edited by Racer Xeo on 07-17-06 12:06 PM) |
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Amanda Red Paratroopa Since: 03-13-06 From: Georgia Last post: 6352 days Last view: 6322 days |
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| You know, I thought they were pretty much going to hell with X-2. It was made for boys and 12 year old girls, really.
I mean of ALL the games to make sequels to. I've decided that if XII isn't any good, I'm done with the series, but I have hope for it. The demo available with Dragon Quest VIII was very promising. |
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Cara Zeltina 90 Since: 05-11-06 Last post: 6384 days Last view: 6384 days |
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Originally posted by Racer Xeo Yeah, as I was making my point above.. the whole book thing just looked like a snap decision really, which seemed illogical for the premise of his character up to that moment. (I don't really get how Cloud went angsty either, seemed Zack was the only guy who stayed level headed.. and the fool gets shot to death, way to go Square! Kill off anyone even hinting at being reasonable!) And I'd agree about Barret, he had some mildly interesting character to him that everyone else lacked.. But at the same time, he was also just an asshole, and obviously meant as comic relief through much of the game. (Which cheapened any decent structure he had very quickly.) Tifa was poorly constructed. (Well, except for her chest.) Aeris was just.. so damn predictable. Cait Sith has to be one of the worst designed characters ever in the history of gaming.. And Cid was.. uh, hmm. Cid's plot seemed completely out of left field in comparison to the rest of the game, I guess? It just didn't mesh in well.. Red might have been a lot more interesting had his plot been thicker.. You really get one visit to his home that serves any meaning to him and that's the end of it. Vincent and Yuffie were just treated as optionals, leaving them without any real substance at all.. Although I did like Vincent in spite of this, for some reason.. *shrugs* Originally posted by Racer Xeo Well.. Not saying I disagree, because I don't.. Buuut.. It was suppose to be that way, ya know? The world ended (Hence, World of "Ruin") basically, and everyone got split up. There wasn't meant to be much left to go to, or many lofty goals to seek out. The whole premise was executed perfectly.. Your character wakes up in a ruined world with nothing left to lose, nothing to do. So what then..? Might as well seek out old friends and try to blow up Kefka. Even if you die trying, who cares? World is screwed anyway, right? Yeah, there could have been more sub-plots there, but essentially that was meant to be the end of the game, and collecting your allies was mostly optional. (You didn't need to get everyone, if I recall.) So it was more about wrapping things up with the story than anything else. Admitingly, this might have hurt the gameplay.. but the plot went unhindered. |
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witeasprinwow Since: 12-29-05 Last post: 6418 days Last view: 6418 days |
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Originally posted by Cara Zeltina My real complaint is that it was little plot spread across lots and lots of game time, most of which was dungeon crawls. The could have easily cut some time off the clock by making more of it optional. Although, being an OCD-ish teenager, I did all the optional dungeons anyways. Don't ask me why I had to get Tellah his best move even though I never used him. I HAD to. Fucking FF. |
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Adamant Buzz Blob Staff Wii have Wii  Since: 11-17-05 From: Norway Last post: 6309 days Last view: 6309 days |
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Originally posted by Rydain The GBA remake of FF1 really has to be the one game I've ranted most about in my life. Sure, most of it is recycled/ranslated from earlier rants I don't have access to anymore, but still. I really like the original FF1, and while the PSX remake is great, the GBA remake was really really bad. The most disappointing game I've ever played, in fact. And I've played Mortal Kombat Mythologies. Let me quote myself here, since I'm too tired to write a new rant: Originally posted by Adamant (edited by Adamant on 07-17-06 06:27 PM) |
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Cara Zeltina 90 Since: 05-11-06 Last post: 6384 days Last view: 6384 days |
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Originally posted by witeasprinwowOriginally posted by Cara Zeltina VI is one of those games you just can get into, and I liked what there was of the plot. (And certain aspects as stated above were executed very well.) But I must agree, it lacked a lot of stuff as well.. To be honest though, I can't think of a single game in the series that hasn't had its upsides and downsides, though.. I just can't find one that truly shines without some equally glaring issue staring back at me.. Originally posted by AdamantOriginally posted by Rydain I'm not sure those changes are a bad thing.. Well, maybe not the "hold down A for insta-win" thing, but, really.. FF1 isn't exactly a grand or exciting game, and in fact it was ridiculously hard whenever I tried to play it in the past.. The whole game just pissed me off, so something easier and a more logical magical system is not - in my opinion - a bad thing.. Keeping it the same for purist sake is pretty silly considering it is a pretty dated game by todays standards and not really very fun anymore.. Its battle system sucked, its story was weak, it.. well really those are the only two aspects an FF title has to show for itself! If they hadn't tweaked it, I don't think as many would have tried it.. It just isn't that great a game anymore. (Albeit, somewhat interesting at the time it was made.) Edit: And damned if that quote tag didn't want to close.. (edited by Cara Zeltina on 07-17-06 07:27 PM) |
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Xeo Belmont Wiiiiiiiiiiiiin Since: 11-17-05 Last post: 6309 days Last view: 6309 days |
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Originally posted by witeasprinwow I get like this also with many RPG's, not surprisingly most of the FF's. Final Fantasy VII, I just basically maxed everyone out and had tons of broken off Materia's. Had a Gold Chocobo, and basically everything you could do. Final Fantasy VIII, I spent enough time to gather up enough magic to junction to my characters to make them absorb 100% of every element in the game. Final Fantasy IX ... alright, didn't do much for this. I beat that orb enemy that was really hard I guess (can't remember the name), and successfully got every card possible. Other than that, this game actually took effort into leveling unlike VII and VIII and I never managed to max out all of my characters. I've done about everything possible on my SNES FFVI. I spent enough time to max out a few select characters, Edgar, Celes, Shadow, and maybe a few others (very easy thanks to dinosaurs ... and yes, maybe I used the X-Zone trick ... sue me!). I was also picky about getting the infamous Speed +1 boost with Odin attached when I leveled my characters, so they were insanely fast. Most of them had over 70 Speed. I just enjoy trying to max out some characters and stuff when it comes to finishing RPG's. Even if it really isn't totally needed to finish the game, its kind of something to do. |
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drjayphd Torosu OW! BURNY!  Since: 11-18-05 From: CT Last post: 6312 days Last view: 6310 days |
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| On FF1: I forget if the guy who argued this is still here, but I guess the attacking of dead enemies is supposed to be realistic. You know, you're giving the orders and then they act simultaneously. Only the last time I checked, if you were actually in such a fight, you, personally, wouldn't attack something that's already dead, yes?
FF6: That was just their way of providing a nice, non-linear aspect to the game, right? Too bad it didn't really work. WOW/Xeo: Yeah, I'm just like that too. Hell, look at Castle of the Winds. I'll keep playing a dungeon after GRAAH JASON SMASH BOSS until I get every. single. piece of treasure out of there, disarm every trap, and kill every enemy (even though they respawn by the time I leave). It'd kill me that I couldn't max out everything in FF6, because I'd just have to have the Odin Esper turn into... whoever it is that teaches you Ultima. |
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Xeo Belmont Wiiiiiiiiiiiiin Since: 11-17-05 Last post: 6309 days Last view: 6309 days |
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Originally posted by drjayphd Well, remember that one sword taught it also.
(yeah, "that one sword". Again I can't think of a name for something ...) But yeah, I didn't want to trade Odin because no other Esper gave that useful Speed +1 bonus. (edited by Racer Xeo on 07-18-06 08:08 PM) |
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witeasprinwow Since: 12-29-05 Last post: 6418 days Last view: 6418 days |
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Originally posted by Racer Xeo "That one sword" is actually the Paladin Shield, gotten from the Cursed Shield. Do you have to trade Odin for that? I forget. Either way, you could just learn the Ultima spell AFTER you reach level 99, thus meaning you already have all your bonuses. I never bothered to max out my characters in the way you guys are talking about... I have OCD for dungeons, not stats. |
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