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| Acmlm's Board - I3 Archive - World Affairs/Debate - Montenegrin independence. |
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Salmon Red Cheep-cheep                  Since: 11-18-05 From: Norway Last post: 6344 days Last view: 6333 days |
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| Europe and the World has gotten a new country. Nothing groundshaking, since Montengro was pretty much independent from Serbia in all important political fields, anyway, but it is an important symbol of Montenegro's absolute independence. With that, what was once the Republic of Yugoslavia is now pretty much completely dissolved. I'm guessing Kosovo (which is now under UN jurisdiction, though officially a part of Serbia) will follow soon, though Serbia of course wants to retain control. Anyways, a joyous time for those Montenegrins who wanted independence, my congratulations to them. | |||
Cynthia Uh-huh.   Since: 11-17-05 From: LaSalle, Quebec, Canada Last post: 6328 days Last view: 6328 days |
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| Well, the vote was close and will probably head to a recount, although being 0.4% above the needed amount probably is good enough. Can't see it going more than 0.2% either way.
If Kosovo gets the chance at a referendum, it's a slam dunk. It wouldn't be 55.4%... more like 85.4% at the least. Montenegro, of course, has to apply for membership in all important world organizations. UN, EU (of note: they're already using the Euro as currency) and so on. So they'll need some time to sort things out but I hope it all goes well. One interesting soccer note...  The World Cup will be the last time that Serbia-Montenegro takes the field. After that, you'll have teams in both Serbia and Montenegro. Serbia's team takes the Serbia-Montenegro spot in Euro 2008 qualifying, but Montenegro - you guessed it - isn't a member of UEFA or FIFA since they just gained independence. So they won't be allowed to take part in qualifying. |
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Arwon Bazu Since: 11-18-05 From: Randwick, Sydney, NSW, Australia Last post: 6329 days Last view: 6329 days |
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| Kosovo is a different kettle of fish to Montenegro. In the republic of Yugoslavia, Montenegro was one of the 6 constituent replublics and thus a constitutionally seperate entity with ready-made paths to independence.
Kosovo, however, not only is not a republic, merely a region of Serbia, but it's also the ancestral homeland of Serbian history and Serbian nationalism, an area that has gradually been populated with Albanians. Independence was never on the cards until the Kosovo Liberation Army radicalised and became militant, provoked a massively excessive Serbian backlash, and somehow got NATO and the UN to intervene to the extent of making Kosovar independence likely despite the fact that no-one in the region (Greece, Macedonia, Serbia, Bosnia) except Albania wants it. The breakup of Yugoslavia was a series of regrettable tragedies. I really think the region was better of united under a non-discriminatory federal system. |
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Imajin Bot Local Moderator Currently affected by 'No syndrome' ---!!!  Since: 12-05-05 From: Camineet, Palm Last post: 6328 days Last view: 6328 days |
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| I have to disagree about the unity of Yugoslavia being better... I mean, certainly great violence has occured in the collapse, but I think the whole formation of Yugoslavia was a bad idea in the first place. Of course, with Serbia winning WW1, they were bound to get something... As for modern day, not much reason to force prosperous Slovenia to be tied to poorer states like Macedonia, is there?
As for Montenegro, why not... I mean, sure Europe has alot of small filler countries already, but why not one more? |
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Arwon Bazu Since: 11-18-05 From: Randwick, Sydney, NSW, Australia Last post: 6329 days Last view: 6329 days |
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| But that's the thing, back in the day, Serbia didn't dominate Yugoslavia. Tito was, I believe, a Croat or possibly Bosnian. And really, the best thing about Yugoslavia was that for most of its history, it didn't matter where you lived or what you were. Redistributive policies and the protection of the federal Yugoslav constition meant it didn't matter which republic you were in or what ethnic group you were (And for once they actually recognised that Serbian and Croatian are the same damn language with different alphabets).
Then as soon as those policies went away, suddenly Serbs in Croatia (for instance) got real nervous and started remembering the Ustache. Everyone started to get nervous and even those of mixed blood (a lot of people, especially in Sarejevo) started identifying with one group or another. Things rapidly snowballed, helped along by communist leaders trying to maintain legitimacy. Don't make the mistake of denigrating and devaluing 40 years of ethnic peace, don't forget that once, cities like Sarajevo were models of multiethnic tolerance. It's unfortunate that the aftermath of this has made it look like the dream was impossible, but it was there, and despite being communist the regime was for a long time genuinely popular. That sort of de-emphasis on ethnicity is something that a lot of people from that area seem to value and look on with notalgia. It's worth noting that despite the fact that Yugoslavia actively encouraged identification with an ethnic group (you had to be a Croat to join the Croat Communist Party, etc) the last census had 1.6 million people identifying as Yugoslav rather than Bosnian or Croatian or Serbian. These policies of separate organisations for each group were designed to balance the ethnic groups but unfortunately they lay the foundations for an easy and violent split in the aftermath. Slovenia has less of a compulsion for a new unity in the Balkans becuase it's basically homogenous and seeking to identify more with Central Europe instead. But as for the rest, some degree of unity once more, particularly across Croatia, Bosnia and Serbia, would be preferable to continued ethnic strife in a nightmarishly complicated region. After-all, what was ethnic cleansing but a rather brutal and "democratic" (in the sense of majority rule) campaign from all parties to simplify these ethnic borders? The problem with these ethnically-identified states going it alone is that in every case except Slovenia there are substantial minorities within their borders... these are not groups with natural boundaries existing along ethnic lines. It's very unfortunate that the dream of a pan-Slavic state is dead for now... in south-eastern Europe, the more nation-states can get away from identifying with a single ethnic group, the better (that goes for Romania as well). It's my hope that eventual EU membership returns these places to a situation where it doesn't matter so much where you live. (edited by Arwon on 05-26-06 11:50 PM) (edited by Arwon on 05-26-06 11:51 PM) |
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RoyChapman Chicken  Since: 07-11-06 From: Amersfoort, European Union Last post: 6538 days Last view: 6538 days |
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Originally posted by Arwon i believe so too.... Tito wasn't all that bad for'em... shame he's dead say arwon, reading your notes here.. are you an advocate of socialism? if so we can talk! (edited by RoyChapman on 07-23-06 03:38 PM) |
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Arwon Bazu Since: 11-18-05 From: Randwick, Sydney, NSW, Australia Last post: 6329 days Last view: 6329 days |
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| BUT IF NOT WE MUST FIGHT
I'm basically a social democrat. (edited by Arwon on 07-23-06 06:33 PM) |
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Wurl Since: 11-17-05 Last post: 6369 days Last view: 6369 days |
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| I'm a socialist, more or less. |
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