Originally posted by Alastor the Stylish

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"It's easy to make useless and it's easier to do?" What does that even mean?

Anyway, no it's not a fluff move because it greatly increases the speed at which you can do various things. It takes practice to do effectively, and wavedashing but not wavedashing effectively can easily cost you quite a bit, but that does not change the fact that faster speed means less wasted time. If two people are of equal skill, but one wavedashes (effectively, mind you) then they can accomplish more in a match in the same time. Thus, in effect, what you are saying is that efficiency is worthless, and that's just not true.

The preceding paragraph made an argument solely based on its time-saving abilities, which were explained in my previous post. However, it does not take in to account the superb mindgames you can play with it. Simply put, when you wavedash, you have more options than when you don't; sure, you could follow up your dash with an attack, or you could quickly wavedash backwards, or you could do many other things. If you have more options and your opponent knows you have more options, then they are less likely to anticipate your actions, and thus are less likely to counter them (and of course, if they don't know you have more options, then when you pick the alternate options then they flatly won't counter them. Heh.) If they're wrong, they'll likely respond in a way that leaves them vulnerable; for instance, they might respond with an attack of higher priority, the recovery to which leaves them open to attack.

Thus, the notion that wavedashing is useless fluff is simply an ignorant one.

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Originally posted by Grey

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It's not ignorant, Kyouji, if I'm fully informed of the benefits of it and yet can still win a match without using the tactic. It'd be ignorant if I had never wavedashed (I can) and if I didn't win matches against wavedashers and then called them wavedash whores or something like that for it.

Me saying wavedashing and wavedancing is useless is about the same as someone in a first person shooter saying X weapon is useless because they win with Y weapon all the time no matter how much more accurate/powerful/bigger ammo clip/statistically better it is.

Hell, in gunbound I won matches without the use of equipment against bunge JD whores because I WAS A GOOD SHOT.

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Originally posted by Grey

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I don't like the idea of wavedashing because it seems like people are trying to insert advanced tactics in a game that really isn't designed to be played strategically. Smash Brothers is literally a very hit-or-miss game. You hit, or you miss, and how fast your opponent is moving has no bearing on how fast you can think or react. It really doesn't matter what you do to a wavedash because no matter what your options will always be limited to what the game has to offer. If you opponent really knows exactly what you can do coming out of a wavedash they can just react with whatever will work. In some character's cases there's an all-encompassing technique for countering nearly everything your opponent has to offer, like Kirby just putting the suck on or the Fox/Falco reflectors.

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Originally posted by Grey

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And it's not like the extra milleseconds you gain add up over time. You can't just say "Oh, I wavedashed myself a few extra seconds of free time, let's deliver an attack!" Time is relative, and extra portions of it are redeemed as soon as they're gained. I hate to break it to you, Kyouji, but in the grand frame of the human mind, a few milleseconds is NOT enough time to really get anything important done.

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Originally posted by Grey

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Not only that, but believe me, I know -- a lot of the time mind games don't work on someone when their personal favorite options for the moment are to either wait for you to stop dicking around and attack them or just run up and smack you while you're trying to do a move that's first and foremost hard to pull off anyway and second something that would require you to do the move and execute an attack or other maneuver instead of just executing the secondary maneuver. When it comes right down to it, Attack = faster than Wavedash + Attack. That's my argument.

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Originally posted by Grey

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Well, that and the fact that I can win matches without using wavedashes and in fact prefer using tactics that DON'T limit me to moving really fast along the ground.

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Originally posted by BPM

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Um. What's wrong with BPM? Hunh?

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Originally posted by BPM

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Um. What's wrong with BPM? Hunh?

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