Originally posted by Pvt. Prinny

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Then you're hurting other people's rights.

No, fetus aren't people and don't have rights.

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Originally posted by Pvt. Prinny

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Define human.

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Originally posted by Snow Tomato

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I also notice guys in class fixing themselves all the time. Like... all the time. I don't know how you could possibly be horny in statistics... but it happens.

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Originally posted by Pvt. Prinny

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I don't know what you mean by spirit, because I don't know what a spirit is.

Is this your way of saying you want to preserve "life" because of your religion?

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Originally posted by Pvt. Prinny

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Wasn't quick enough to that edit button apparently, but yeah, I read your post a few times and saw what you meant.

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Originally posted by Pvt. Prinny

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Still don't know exactly what you mean though than "abortion is bad cause I say so".

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Originally posted by Pvt. Prinny

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Yeah, you value life and believe the fetus is life, but why is that your stance?

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Originally posted by Pvt. Prinny

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Sorry, why do you believe what you believe?

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Originally posted by Pvt. Prinny

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That clarifies a lot.

Your idea is deeply rooted, and you follow through with it, which I can respect. As you said earlier we'll never be able to convince the other when it hits the heart of the issue, so apparently it's an agree to disagree?

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Originally posted by Sin Dogan

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Silvershield: This picture showcases your love of life and knee slapping humorous side.

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Originally posted by Plus Sign Abomination

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SS, what?

So, you're willing to incarcarate people for potentially frivulous crimes...but you're not willing to spend the comparatively minisicule amount of money to fund a person to become a reintegrated person in society? That sounds sadistic to me.

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Originally posted by Arwon

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I once read a rather stunningly revealing article in a philosophy magazine which pointed out that if you start from a first principle of "suffering is evil" rather than "life is sacred" you come to an extremely different set of moral and ethical principles.

I leave it as an exercise to the reader to follow through the reasoning and ramifications of the two first-principles on a whole range of issues.

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Originally posted by Plus Sign Abomination

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But what about the social suffering that you inflict surrounding him?

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Originally posted by Tauwasser

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[images]

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Originally posted by Plus Sign Abomination

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Everything I know of points to rehab to be a long and arduous process. Very few centres (except for the celeb ones that result in relapses) are coddling. I'd say that these are a positive social factor and rather worthy of receiving funding.

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Originally posted by Plus Sign Abomination

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Sadly, the homeless issue is normally just shunted aside and the people are left to die. So that is already the natural societal response to it - for the most part.

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Originally posted by Aiya

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Going back and reading that.. well. I have to say that I know several people that use painkillers to get high. Just read the thread about getting your wisdom teeth removed. >>; So saying that they cannot produce a result like that.. is false.

I don't mean to single that quote out, but there's just too much to read here. And most of it has been replied to anyway. :< But that made me chuckle a bit. (I'm also chuckling at the first line of that quote, considering. But anyway. >>)

<<

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Originally posted by Aiya

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You did say 'the like', sir. So perhaps not quite as clearly as you think. Other 'simple' drugs can cause some side effects like those of 'serious' prescription drugs.

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Originally posted by Aiya

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And I did read the whole thread/discussion, thank you. I just didn't choose to comment on all of it individually. Maybe I should edit my post to say 'but there's too much to reply to here' instead of 'too much to read.' >> But saying here should suffice, I hope.

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Originally posted by Legion

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The second I saw SS posted here, I was just like "Aw, fuck. Not again." *sigh*

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Originally posted by Legion

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You do realize that weed can't kill you, and other drugs will, right? Are you aware that it takes, literally, ten times your body weight in pot (inhaled in under an hour) to OD and die from it? Wherein crack, cocaine, heroin, PCP, meth, DXM, among others, requre MUCH less?
That's the difference. I agree with toxic. My life is the same. I smoked up for the first time a while ago, and I'm still me, and I'm right as rain.
So before you go off on another one of your tangents, start doing a little bit of hands-on research, as Snow Tomato suggested before you push your (mostly false) ideals upon everyone.

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Originally posted by Plus Sign Abomination

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Well, it is condoned by society for the most part. People make squawks about this, that and the other thing. But they're not going to actually rectify the sitation leading to this societal problem. So this brings to question whether the will of society should over ride certain "moral" obligations. And if this is true then any moral (that is, if there are any) considerations surrounding abortion can be tossed out the window.

You know, you can actually give a little lip service to the problem and let the problem perpetuate. You never have to come up with a solution to the root cause of the problem. That's what the abortion debate is about. It is a way to escape other things which more directly affect society as a whole.

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Originally posted by Arwon

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Passively allowing something isn't much different to actively causing it, really.

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Originally posted by Aiya

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Considering that weed is what this thread is supposed to be about, it's not hard to make the assumption. >>

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Originally posted by Arwon

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Yep, and that's an enormous problem. When we don't put more money into, just as one example, simple, cost-effective, life-saving things such as distributing anti-diarrhea medication, we're basically condemning tens of thousands of children to death every year.

When people get so hysterical and fetishistic over little bits of foetal tissue, the juxtaposition is quite illuminating.

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Originally posted by Tauwasser

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Well, you didn't answer though. The link contained nothing I was concerned about. You said I could show you any living (or once-living) thing and you could tell if it was human or not. You failed that test miserably.

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Originally posted by Tauwasser

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Another anaology: There's a man in your custody that knows the code to a secret bunker where your family is and dies right now. Would it be immoral to torture him to get the code and save a few lives?

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Originally posted by Tauwasser

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But obviously they don't. They invade other countries to rape their natural goods as well as other things and leave nothing but atrocity behind. Your argument is somewhat broken.

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Originally posted by Arwon

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I'm arguing that the equation between preventing potential future lives by killing foetuses, and actual REAL LIFE CHILDREN DYING EVERY DAY BECAUSE OF OUR FUCKED UP PRIORITIES, is grotesque. When people in their comfortable little air-conditioned mini-mall adjacent homes and stick bumperstickers on their SUVs and sit there and tut-tut about the "holocaust of little baaaaybeeez" with barely a cursory glance at the actual suffering, misery and death that befalls millions of children beyond this shiny country-fried bubble world... it speaks of massively flawed priorities. By holding up foetal life to be the equivalent to real children, you debase the suffering and misery of real children.

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Originally posted by Arwon

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That's to say nothing of the massive disconnect between hysterical "it's murder" rhetoric and the ACTUAL opinions of these people who say such. I mean, if philosophically one believes that it's truly murder, then one is sitting by and doing nothing but whine as millions of people are being killed. Anyone who believes abortion is murder should be out there bombing clinics, killing abortion doctors and pro-abortion judges, kidnapping women who're going to abort in order to restrain them and force them to have their children, and so forth. They would be practically compelled into joining the baby-liberation underground and assisting in any way they could. This would be heroic vigilantism on par with the French Resistance. Anything less would be complicity in the Holocaust.

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