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| Acmlm's Board - I2 Archive - Sports Center - Hockey Fans will hate this... and yeah, there's no hope. |
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Sandy53215 Acmlm (10:55:31 PM): they're having fun for the first time in so long Level: 47  Posts: 311/948 EXP: 713034 For next: 53169 Since: 03-15-04 From: Milwaukee, Wisconsin (U.S.A) Since last post: 1 day Last activity: 4 hours |
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| NEW YORK (Feb. 14) - With its do-or-die deadline come and gone and no deal in sight, the NHL circled Wednesday as the day it would call off what little was left of a decimated season, The Associated Press learned Monday. Despite a last-gasp meeting Monday between the league and the players' union, commissioner Gary Bettman still planned to cancel the remaining games, a source close to the negotiations said on condition of anonymity. The NHL announced that Bettman would speak at a news conference Wednesday in New York, but declined to give details. It would become the first major professional league in North America to lose an entire season because of a labor dispute. The Stanley Cup has been awarded every year since 1919, when a flu epidemic canceled the finals. But more than two-thirds of the season and the All-Star game already have been lost to a lockout that started Sept. 16. The major stumbling block to an agreement has been the league's insistence on a salary cap. Bettman said the sides needed to start putting a deal on paper by last weekend if the NHL was going to hold a 28-game season and a full 16-team playoff. The regular season normally is 82 games. "It is clear to me that if we're not working on a written document by this weekend, I don't see how we can play any semblance of a season," Bettman said last week. "Obviously we will listen to everything the union has to say, but we've given all we can give and gone as far as we can go." Even a session with a federal mediator Sunday in Washington couldn't produce an agreement. But the league initiated more talks Monday, the source said. Only NHL chief legal officer Bill Daly and union senior director Ted Saskin were present, two other sources close to the negotiations told the AP on condition of anonymity. Bettman said the 30 NHL teams need to have cost certainty to survive and the only way he could guarantee that was with a salary cap that linked league revenues to player costs. The league has said teams lost $273 million in 2002-03 and $224 million last season, and an economic study commissioned by the NHL found that players get 75 percent of league revenues. The union has challenged those figures. A cap was an automatic deal-breaker for the union even though it agreed that the financial landscape had to change. The players' association contended that there are many other ways to fix it. Monday, the 152nd day of the lockout, was to have been the last day of the All-Star break; the festivities in Atlanta were called off months earlier. So far, 824 of the 1,230 regular-season games have been lost. The sides have traded proposals throughout the lockout, but the salary cap has always been the sticking point. Other issues such as arbitration, revenue-sharing, and rookie caps never reached the true negotiating stage because the sides couldn't agree on the big issue. In recent days, the union and league seemed adamant that they wouldn't budge. "We're done," Saskin said Thursday after talks broke off. On Sunday, Daly said: "We will not be reaching out to them." Smack me if there is a thread about this.  This really sucks for the players and the teams and the whole NHL. Any comments from Hockey fans? |
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Colleen Administrator Level: 136 Posts: 6790/11302 EXP: 29369328 For next: 727587 Since: 03-15-04 From: LaSalle, Quebec, Canada Since last post: 3 hours Last activity: 1 hour |
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| I think they should take a week or two off and then start talks again to come up with some sort of deal. Apparently linkage is off the table which is a good thing, but now it remains to be seen whether or not the players would deal with a hard salary cap. I doubt it. Now, IF you get a deal in a few weeks, this is what you do. - Start a huge PR campaign to get interest in the game back. Television ads, print, internet advertising, whatever. - Release the 05/06 schedule early and have all 30 teams offer cut prices on season tickets/game packs. Maybe not a huge cut, but lower ticket pricing for next season to win the fans back. - Schedule an All-Star tour to take place sometime between May and July mainly in cities who's hockey markets could be extremely vulnerable as a result of the lockout. Off the top of my head, stops should be in California (any arena), Phoenix, Nashville, Florida and Atlanta (automatic to make up for the loss of the 04/05 All-Star Game). Add 2-3 games in some major hockey markets for income, such as Toronto, Detroit, New York or Montreal. Split proceeds equally between the league and players. - Allow free agent signings right away for players who would become unrestricted free agents on July 1. They'd have 4-5 months to sign everyone and have them fit in the new economic system, so you'd be able to plan out your future rather than sign a bunch of guys and then have the latest UFA's left out in the cold. Trades should be allowed immediately following the signing of a deal as well. - Adopt a weighted-lottery system for the 2005 Entry Draft. It wouldn't be fair to give Washington a chance to land both Ovechkin and Crosby. Use a team's record over the last three seasons as a ranking method for the draft and give the team with the worst 3-year record the best odds at landing #1, and the team with the best record the worst odds - but at least everyone has a shot at landing Crosby.  |
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Lenophis Super Koopa Level: 44  Posts: 376/830 EXP: 584360 For next: 26925 Since: 03-15-04 From: Duluth, MN Since last post: 4 hours Last activity: 3 hours |
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| Wednesday is D-Day, although there've been about 4 D-Day's now. Nevertheless, dark times are ahead.... Owners, you are acting like stubborn children. The players gave you probably the best offer any union could ever possibly give. You turned it down... Players, you are also acting like stubborn children. "Oh no! I'll only make 25 million per year instead of 30 million! THIS CANNOT BE ALLOWED TO HAPPEN!  " With a cap, the players that don't make that much are guaranteed a minimum amount, which is a hell of a lot better than your stubborness. Accept the cap, it saved football, and look how it's flourishing.  GET OVER YOUR DAMN SELVES AND SETTLE THIS BULLSHIT! |
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Colleen Administrator Level: 136 Posts: 6802/11302 EXP: 29369328 For next: 727587 Since: 03-15-04 From: LaSalle, Quebec, Canada Since last post: 3 hours Last activity: 1 hour |
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| And let's add one more twist... - The NHL offered a hard salary cap yesterday at $40m, not involving linkage. They got off that finally. - The NHLPA countered with a $52m... hard salary cap. This is the first time the NHLPA has offered to take a salary cap. - The NHL refused the proposal. Now, obviously there IS room to do something today if the NHLPA is willing to take the cap finally... And if the season's cancelled, no sweat. My feeling is that if they're willing to go down that route, there'll be something in a matter of time. |
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Lenophis Super Koopa Level: 44 Posts: 377/830 EXP: 584360 For next: 26925 Since: 03-15-04 From: Duluth, MN Since last post: 4 hours Last activity: 3 hours |
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| ugh.... Wednesday is now the absolute FINAL DAY. A news conference is scheduled for noon EST, and the players union have until 11 am to accept the NHL's final deal. If a deal is not agreed on, the season will be canceled at the news conference. If a deal is reached, then the season is on. If the deal is met, then all thirty teams will have a 28 game schedule, and the full 16 team playoff system. |
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neotransotaku Baby Mario 戻れたら、 誰も気が付く Level: 87 Posts: 2239/4016 EXP: 6220548 For next: 172226 Since: 03-15-04 From: Outside of Time/Space Since last post: 11 hours Last activity: 1 hour |
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| It's official--season is now cancelled. Bettman called it off. Read the story either here or at your favorite sports news site. Anyways, $52 million dollar salary cap--i wonder where the salary caps are for football and baseketball... |
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Toxic in a sublime state of mind Level: 75  Posts: 2450/2857 EXP: 3732709 For next: 94195 Since: 03-15-04 Since last post: 3 days Last activity: 8 hours |
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| Anyone wanna venture for those non hockey fans like myself who had a good shot at winning the cup? I don't even remember who was good teams anymore  |
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drjayphd Beamos What's that spell? pimp! Level: 56  Posts: 883/1477 EXP: 1387410 For next: 10766 Since: 03-15-04 From: CT Since last post: 2 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
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| Football's about $80 million, and basketball... I think it's $50 million or so. I think I heard that when the players offered a cap, they used the NBA's as a starting point. Anyone see Bettman surviving this once they get a deal done (and they will, as they won't be sacrificing NEXT season too)? |
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Colleen Administrator Level: 136 Posts: 6820/11302 EXP: 29369328 For next: 727587 Since: 03-15-04 From: LaSalle, Quebec, Canada Since last post: 3 hours Last activity: 1 hour |
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| Whoever *loses* the deal is gone. If Bettman ends up getting his way the owners are going to hold him on a fricking pedestal. Goodenow needs to get a fair deal for his side although he's already nailed them twice with the rollback and the salary cap. Bettman's argument about the hard cap was that teams are going to gravitate towards the high end of it; for argument's sake, let's say it was $49 million. I don't know about you, but I cannot see teams like Nashville, Carolina, Edmonton, Calgary, Washington and Pittsburgh striving to hit anywhere near that $49 million level. It's not like football (many teams near the $80 million cap) or basketball (Bettman said today that 27 teams are over the cap right now in the NBA, which I find hard to believe), so... |
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Lenophis Super Koopa Level: 44 Posts: 380/830 EXP: 584360 For next: 26925 Since: 03-15-04 From: Duluth, MN Since last post: 4 hours Last activity: 3 hours |
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Originally posted by Colleen He would be right though. The Knicks have the highest payroll of every single team, somwhere in the $110 million range. A few teams are floating around 90, and then work your way down to the 60 range. *shrug* It's insane, really. The NBA cap is a joke of a system, since there's two or three levels to it or something like that. As for whoever loses...Colleen, EVERYBODY loses. The players want to play, the owners want to play. I personally have to blame the union in this case. If you watched the news conference, they were coming off like they were the victim in every way, shape, and form. I don't think I need to tell you that it is UTTER BULLSHIT! Get rid of Goodenow, give Jeremy Roenick the job...  |
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Colleen Administrator Level: 136 Posts: 6823/11302 EXP: 29369328 For next: 727587 Since: 03-15-04 From: LaSalle, Quebec, Canada Since last post: 3 hours Last activity: 1 hour |
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| I mean whoever loses with the new CBA. Put it this way; if Goodenow ends up caving in on every single point that they've fought against and the players don't like it, he's going to be exiting stage right. I'd be ticked if my union prez went out and negotiated a deal that none of us wanted. On the other hand, if Bettman goes out there and doesn't provide the owners with the system that they want, then he's going to be facing an uncertain future as well. I agree that we're all losing at the moment, but I think someone's going to end up being the ultimate loser in all this. 27 over the cap... OY. I just checked a document and saw that there's a crapload of exceptions, but still... Not good at all. Then again, the NBA system is needlessly complex to begin with. |
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Lenophis Super Koopa Level: 44 Posts: 383/830 EXP: 584360 For next: 26925 Since: 03-15-04 From: Duluth, MN Since last post: 4 hours Last activity: 3 hours |
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Originally posted by Colleen It almost seems like that Goodenow is trying to do business without the players knowledge. Some players went on record to saying, "I woke up this morning and found out by reading the paper..." In my opinion, Bettman and Goodenow have done way too much damage. It might be better in some sense if they did leave, but also not at the same time.
If the owners are the ultimate loser, then it'll probably because a team or two was retracted. That won't save the game. If it's the players, then there were some crazy cap issues that they agreed to. That might help, but it won't save the game either. Let's assume for a moment that the 05-06 season starts on time. The game needs some changes if they want the fans to come back. What do you think they should do to get the fans back? I'll go first: 1: Lower ticket prices, they're higher priced than Red Sox tickets... 2: Give emphasis for winning. I believe it's 2 points per win, and 1 per tie for the current system. Needs a slight revamp. 3: Get a TV contract. Right now, I think everyone can watch the first three weeks of the season, and then then playoffs. That's easily, the rest of the season might be non-existant to tv viewing. 4: Do something about the fighting, I don't have hockey for the fights. I watch for the win. Like Herm Edwards says, "we play to win the game!" That's all I can think of for now. What do think of the ideas? And please give some, the sport itself is on life support. |
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drjayphd Beamos What's that spell? pimp! Level: 56 Posts: 886/1477 EXP: 1387410 For next: 10766 Since: 03-15-04 From: CT Since last post: 2 hours Last activity: 2 hours |
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| TV's been taken care of, as far as I can tell: NBC has the rights now. (follows the bouncing contract) They're gonna have to make some hardcore rules changes, too. People LOVE hockey as played in the Olympics. Enough thuggeration, let's see some fucking skill. (Oh, and someone take whoever popularized the neutral zone trap out back and shoot 'em. No, not the WHOLE New Jersey Devils franchise, either. There's gotta be one guy to blame.) Roenick as commish or player rep would Fucking Rule. He'd be like Schwarzenegger as Cali governor (who's now proposing common-sense rules regarding redistricting, but that's another forum). Either that or maybe Trevor Linden (didn't he get both sides talking again?). Colleen: I think the player's proposal actually included a salary floor, too, which they'd need. You've got to spend a certain amount on your team and not pocket EVERYTHING, which just a cap would do. And the problem with the NBA is it's a luxury tax, not a hard cap. If you want to pay extra to invest more in the team, you'll probably do so. |
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Colleen Administrator Level: 136 Posts: 6854/11302 EXP: 29369328 For next: 727587 Since: 03-15-04 From: LaSalle, Quebec, Canada Since last post: 3 hours Last activity: 1 hour |
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| NBC has the rights but it's a type of shared revenue contract - there was NO cash up front. So it wasn't like the $600 million ABC deal. Well, we know the season's cancelled... er... probably... um... there's a pretty decent chance it's going to be saved this weekend. *sheepish grin* Basically Bettman and Goodenow were playing Chicken with each other, and they were waiting for one guy to jump out of the car before it went off the cliff... well, they're both going off the cliff now and if they don't jump out of the car, they're gonna die. TSN and Sportsnet in Canada have learned the following things:- There's been HUGE pressure on both sides to get a deal done ever since Thursday morning, when everyone woke up, read the paper and said "What have we done?" - Player reps have been talking to owners and vice-versa the last two days - there's been a lot of private talks. - The NHL and NHLPA will meet tomorrow in New York, and this is a HUGE meeting - Bettman/Goodenow (likely), Saskin/Daly, the NHLPA executive committee (Linden and friends), Wayne Gretzky, Mario Lemieux and whoever the hell else wants to come to the party. - TSN went as far to suggest that if a deal isn't in place at the moment, the framework for it might well be. There would be no point in meeting tomorrow, they said, if there wasn't something bringing them to the table; both sides know by now what's acceptable in negotiations and what isn't. Now, this does NOT mean we're getting a deal for sure tomorrow or Sunday, but the wheels have been set in motion; but it's going to be real sad if a cancellation of the season was what it took in order to save it. You listening to all this, NBA fans?  |
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neotransotaku Baby Mario 戻れたら、 誰も気が付く Level: 87 Posts: 2301/4016 EXP: 6220548 For next: 172226 Since: 03-15-04 From: Outside of Time/Space Since last post: 11 hours Last activity: 1 hour |
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yeah, this sounds promising now  it seems with every labor contract has this hassle back and forth stuff and the side that gives in first is a "loser" basically. anyways, guess we'll see what happens...and Colleen, i don't understand your NBA reference... |
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Colleen Administrator Level: 136 Posts: 6865/11302 EXP: 29369328 For next: 727587 Since: 03-15-04 From: LaSalle, Quebec, Canada Since last post: 3 hours Last activity: 1 hour |
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| The NBA CBA's set to expire this summer I believe. Or next summer. Either way, they have to start meeting with the union to hammer out their deal to avoid another work stoppage. Collective bargaining is supposed to lead to COMPROMISE. We only started to see signs of that THIS WEEK - 5 months into the stoppage. EDIT: The Hockey News is reporting that both sides have AGREED, IN PRINCIPLE, to a deal including a $45 million salary cap. Tomorrow is going to be very interesting... (edited by Colleen on 02-18-05 10:03 PM) |
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Lenophis Super Koopa Level: 44 Posts: 384/830 EXP: 584360 For next: 26925 Since: 03-15-04 From: Duluth, MN Since last post: 4 hours Last activity: 3 hours |
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| Game on? I've been watching ESPNEWS since about 9 pm Central (cause TV really sucks on Friday's) and breaking news... The NHL is set to un-cancel the season Saturday. That can only mean that a deal has been reached...  |
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Colleen Administrator Level: 136 Posts: 6871/11302 EXP: 29369328 For next: 727587 Since: 03-15-04 From: LaSalle, Quebec, Canada Since last post: 3 hours Last activity: 1 hour |
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| Latest update as of 10:45 is that the union is denying that a deal's been reached, which is understandable since "framework" doesn't mean "deal". On the flip side, when one of your own players ended up leaking the details... |
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neotransotaku Baby Mario 戻れたら、 誰も気が付く Level: 87 Posts: 2305/4016 EXP: 6220548 For next: 172226 Since: 03-15-04 From: Outside of Time/Space Since last post: 11 hours Last activity: 1 hour |
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| omg...this is somewhat good news--if the season isn't canceled that is great. But will this season be worth to watch since it is soooo abbreviated... | |||
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Colleen Administrator Level: 136 Posts: 6873/11302 EXP: 29369328 For next: 727587 Since: 03-15-04 From: LaSalle, Quebec, Canada Since last post: 3 hours Last activity: 1 hour |
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| It might be viewed as a bit of a joke season but people would still follow it come playoff time. I wanna see Boston sign 10+ free agents in the next 2 weeks.  |
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| Acmlm's Board - I2 Archive - Sports Center - Hockey Fans will hate this... and yeah, there's no hope. |
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