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| Acmlm's Board - I2 Archive - Suggestions/Bug Reports - HTML |
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windwaker Ball and Chain Trooper WHY ALL THE MAYONNAISE HATE Level: 61  Posts: 1070/1797 EXP: 1860597 For next: 15999 Since: 03-15-04 Since last post: 4 days Last activity: 6 days |
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| Only because they say so, and nobody else has had the nerves/care to stand up to them. YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND. W3C IS ALLOWED TO SAY WHAT IS GOOD HTML AND BAD HTML. THEY CREATED IT. THEY SHOULD KNOW. I don't recall XKeeper, knuck, or myself saying that we wanted to be webdesigners. You just seem to assume we do, just because you're one. OR MAYBE WE JUST RECALL THAT, you know, XKEEPER AND YOURSELF HAVE A WEBSITE. Note that Xk's site is HTML 4.01 standard. |
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Gavin Fuzzy Rhinoceruses don't play games. They fucking charge your ass. Level: 43  Posts: 466/799 EXP: 551711 For next: 13335 Since: 03-15-04 From: IL, USA Since last post: 13 hours Last activity: 13 hours |
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Only because they say so, and nobody else has had the nerves/care to stand up to them. wait, are you fucking serious??? You're turning this into a david vs. goliath. You're "taking on the man" by refusing to code properly, lol. Okay whatever man. I don't recall XKeeper, knuck, or myself saying that we wanted to be webdesigners. You just seem to assume we do, just because you're one. you don't have to be a profoessional web designer to follow the rules you follow at PHP. Do you complain to the creators/maintainers of PHP that you don't like the way their product was created and not follow their standards? No, of course not. it's because PHP has *normal stadards levels*, unlike most www browsers. So please, since you see enough obvious flaws in the current dominating format, let's hear you're own new specifications for transmitting and creating webpages? Actually wait, i'll give you a better chance of actually giving me an answer on this one, just for kicks: tell me 3 things wrong with the current HTML format. What makes you right? Just because some website says you are, it doesn't mean you are. And I'm not saying you're right or wrong. All I'm saying, all I've BEEN saying, is that W3 is NOT the be all end all of HTML. yes actually, yes they are. because they maintain the language, because it is their fucking language. Go create you're own if you don't like the way they make theirs. (edit: massive cleanup) (edited by Gavin on 02-04-05 09:00 PM) (edited by Gavin on 02-04-05 09:02 PM) |
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Narf Hi Tuvai! (reregistering while banned) Level: 16  Posts: 29/100 EXP: 17634 For next: 2622 Since: 12-26-04 Since last post: 22 hours Last activity: 14 hours |
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| I don't recall XKeeper, knuck, or myself saying that we wanted to be webdesigners. You just seem to assume we do, just because you're one. No, but all 3 of you are involved with it. Elric, you've been into HTML and PHP from before I was even (and you still suck at it, apperantly, but that's another story) and you've had your own site for years. Knuck is a dumbass who was bugging me for scripts and HTML forms to mess up this board before. And as for Xkeeper, he too has his own site and he's a post layout-fanaticist. You're not specifically webdesigners, but you're definately involved with it. Anyway, I don't see this getting anywhere. The arguments are getting more stupid by the second. Either you people are so fucking stupid, or you're just acting stupid. The fact is, HTML and the standards that came with them are pretty much the origin of the internet, and why you people are so against these standards, leaves me wondering, really. I have yet to see the first good reason, though. And don't give me shit like "Who says W3C is right?". W3C is right, W3C created HTML and the original standards, you can't beat that. It's a fact. (edited by Narf on 02-04-05 09:09 PM) (edited by Narf on 02-04-05 09:09 PM) |
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knuck Hinox Banned until 19-58-5815: trolling, flaming, spamming, being a general fucktard... Level: 62 Posts: 1116/1818 EXP: 1894574 For next: 90112 Since: 03-15-04 Since last post: 14 hours Last activity: 9 hours |
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| I still don't get how someone can suck at webdesign by not using some morons' standards (i fucking know they created html, it won't stop them from being morons. GET THAT). HTML is origin of internet since when? Now you don't know what you are talking about.  |
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windwaker Ball and Chain Trooper WHY ALL THE MAYONNAISE HATE Level: 61 Posts: 1071/1797 EXP: 1860597 For next: 15999 Since: 03-15-04 Since last post: 4 days Last activity: 6 days |
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| Knuck. WHY ARE THEY MORONS? WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY? BECAUSE THEY HAVE A WEBSITE TELLING YOU HOW TO AVOID MAKING BAD HTML PAGES. If you don't like it, don't use HTML. |
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knuck Hinox Banned until 19-58-5815: trolling, flaming, spamming, being a general fucktard... Level: 62 Posts: 1117/1818 EXP: 1894574 For next: 90112 Since: 03-15-04 Since last post: 14 hours Last activity: 9 hours |
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Originally posted by windwakerBetter yet: if you don't like the way i use HTML, shut the fuck up about it. And about they being morons, i was wrong about it. The real morons are people like Gavin and Narf, who use a fucked up logic as to who is considered a webdesigner. |
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Narf Hi Tuvai! (reregistering while banned) Level: 16 Posts: 30/100 EXP: 17634 For next: 2622 Since: 12-26-04 Since last post: 22 hours Last activity: 14 hours |
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Originally posted by knuckYou really can't properly have a discussion, can you? Calling people morons because you're running out of arguments and excuses is not a way to show you're a lightbulb. Oh, and HTML has always been the language in which webpages are transfered, nothing else. Doh. |
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knuck Hinox Banned until 19-58-5815: trolling, flaming, spamming, being a general fucktard... Level: 62 Posts: 1118/1818 EXP: 1894574 For next: 90112 Since: 03-15-04 Since last post: 14 hours Last activity: 9 hours |
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Originally posted by NarfThat coming from you. I'll just act as if you didn't post that.  Originally posted by NarfWebpages != internet. I think that you the master webdesigner should know that more than i do. |
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Narf Hi Tuvai! (reregistering while banned) Level: 16 Posts: 31/100 EXP: 17634 For next: 2622 Since: 12-26-04 Since last post: 22 hours Last activity: 14 hours |
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| No, the internet is not completely consistant of actual webpages, with it being a massive network theoretically in the first place. Still, there would be no internet without actual webpages. The internet would basically be informationless. I'm still missing all of your reasons/arguments explaining why W3C is so stupid. And no, "becuz their morons lol!11" is not an argument. (edited by Narf on 02-04-05 10:10 PM) |
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knuck Hinox Banned until 19-58-5815: trolling, flaming, spamming, being a general fucktard... Level: 62 Posts: 1119/1818 EXP: 1894574 For next: 90112 Since: 03-15-04 Since last post: 14 hours Last activity: 9 hours |
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Originally posted by NarfSorry but no. IRC existed waay before webpages. So did usenet, BBSs, and the list goes on.~ Originally posted by Narf Originally posted by knuck |
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Narf Hi Tuvai! (reregistering while banned) Level: 16 Posts: 32/100 EXP: 17634 For next: 2622 Since: 12-26-04 Since last post: 22 hours Last activity: 14 hours |
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| Yes, IRC was there before there were actual HTML pages as we know them, still, what does it have to do with any of this, knuck? You're dwarreling off the subject. Out of ideas? All of your replies in this thread so far have been nothing but immature bullshit, calling people morons in every single one of them, seriously, you're not making a point at all. | |||
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knuck Hinox Banned until 19-58-5815: trolling, flaming, spamming, being a general fucktard... Level: 62 Posts: 1120/1818 EXP: 1894574 For next: 90112 Since: 03-15-04 Since last post: 14 hours Last activity: 9 hours |
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Originally posted by NarfOut of ideas? I already said what i think about W3C standards. Aren't you paying attention?  |
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Narf Hi Tuvai! (reregistering while banned) Level: 16 Posts: 33/100 EXP: 17634 For next: 2622 Since: 12-26-04 Since last post: 22 hours Last activity: 14 hours |
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Originally posted by knuckYou say a lot of things, but most of them lack reasons or points.Originally posted by NarfOut of ideas? I already said what i think about W3C standards. Aren't you paying attention? |
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Vystrix Nexoth Level: 30 Posts: 245/348 EXP: 158678 For next: 7191 Since: 03-15-04 From: somewhere between anima and animus Since last post: 3 days Last activity: 2 days |
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| the language of the World Wide Web is HTML (or XHTML which is being phased in). if you claim to be a competent web designer, that implies you are competent at HTML/XHTML. that would imply understanding HTML/XHTML. you (knuck & elric), very clearly, do not. HTML is a language to represent the structure of a webpage. CSS is a separate language which defines how to make it look and sound. HTML is implemented using SGML (a language that existed long before W3C did). HTML 4.01 was re-implemented using XML, thereby creating XHTML 1.0, which is not otherwise any different from HTML 4.01 (which would imply that it is the host language, not HTML itself, that sucks). XML can do many things SGML can only dream of, such as embedding other XML document types into XHTML (or vice-versa), such as RDF, MathML, and SVG, let alone formats such as XSL which define how to transform a given XML document into another XML document (e.g. "generic" XML into XHTML, or vice-versa). Semantic web design means representing what things mean rather than how they should look. This involves separating the structure of a document (represented by HTML/XHTML) from its presentation (represented by CSS). This makes it possible to swap stylesheets, which for a properly-coded site can make it so you can change the look, feel, and even the entire layout of the page without touching the markup at all; the CSS Zen Garden competently demonstrates this principle. Proper, semantically-correct markup is smaller, simpler (by far!), more robust, more elegant, and simply better. If you understood HTML/XHTML, CSS, etc (which you purport to by claiming to be a competent web designer), then I have told you nothing you don't already know. Now, these principles require a very different approach. You do not understand this approach, therefore you resent it. You don't want to let go of the security blanket to which you so tenatiously cling. You will fight tooth and nail to avoid enlightenment and to stick to the old ways because it requires understanding (which in turn requires effort) in order to adopt the new ways. |
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tuna ... Level: 3 Posts: 208/2 EXP: 51 For next: 77 Since: 12-02-04 Since last post: 1 day Last activity: 1 day |
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| Allow me to just put a little bit of thought into this, since Narf has repeatedly missed my point about filesizes --it's the output size, you dumbass, it has nothing to do with the source size -- which would be this. Method A. Looks like complete shit in the source, but gets the job done and looks perfectly fine in all browsers that don't suck (see "non-text browsers" because we left the stone age a long time ago) and has no extreme problems spare a misplaced text box. Wooooooopdiedo. Method B. Pretty source code. Looks the exact same as A. Took twice as long to write, verify, reqwrite, reverify. Works in browsers (spare text browsers becuase they suck anyway) Anyone with half a brain (unless, you know, you're being PAID TO WRITE PERFECT CODE (WHICH LET US REMIND YOU OF THE ORIGINAL TOPIC THAT ACMLM IS NOT)) would pick method A. Or you could just be an elitest look-at-my-super-xhtml-peniz-lol and force XHTML down others throats because waaaa the source isn't pretty  @ windwaker and my (new) site being 4.01T compliant: 10:01'49" | < 10:02'06" | < @ Narf: Originally posted by an XHTML elitestHow am I a layout fanaticist? I hate layouts that are rediculosuly stupid (like idiots with white-on-white) but FYI I have layouts off. If, for some reason, you think I like making these, it's mainly because I have nothing better to do and they're nothing more than 4 minutes work because they're not meant to look pretty in the source. Sorry if you don't like it ---- Other than that Elric has pretty much covered most of the bases. (Congrats, Elric. You kick ass.) |
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Narf Hi Tuvai! (reregistering while banned) Level: 16 Posts: 34/100 EXP: 17634 For next: 2622 Since: 12-26-04 Since last post: 22 hours Last activity: 14 hours |
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Originally posted by Alexa Originally posted by Narf I've been saying that right in the start of this thread, YOU DUMBASS. |
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Gavin Fuzzy Rhinoceruses don't play games. They fucking charge your ass. Level: 43 Posts: 468/799 EXP: 551711 For next: 13335 Since: 03-15-04 From: IL, USA Since last post: 13 hours Last activity: 13 hours |
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| lol, i'm sorry that you view "keeping up with the times" as elitism. Acmlm is not paid to right any code. But i wasn't even asking for "perfect" i wasn't "asking" for anything. I asked a simple questino out of curiosity: will keeping up with current trends on the WWW be a priority of the software maintainers of this board (which you are not). That aside, i wouldn't even be looking for "perfect" code. I would settle for "code that doesn't look like digested donkey balls". |
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tuna ... Level: 3 Posts: 209/2 EXP: 51 For next: 77 Since: 12-02-04 Since last post: 1 day Last activity: 1 day |
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| Congradulations, you miss the award again. SMALLER, FINISHED OUTPUT SIZE = WIN THE SOURCE WORKINGS DO NOT MATTER. THE FINISHED, SENT-TO-THE-CLIENT OUTPUT DOES. LESS OUTPUT > MORE OUTPUT OMITTED TAGS (assuming they don't cause one giant row or some other bullshit which is not happening) IS GOOD. |
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FreeDOS Lava Lotus Wannabe-Mod :< Level: 59 Posts: 1062/1657 EXP: 1648646 For next: 24482 Since: 03-15-04 From: Seattle Since last post: 6 hours Last activity: 4 hours |
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| First of all, the "World Wide Web" most of you are speaking if is simply the HTTP protocol. HTML (derived from SGML) existed for a few years before HTTP's invention. Before this and a little bit after, there were no rules for HTML. Most people wrote tags in all uppercase, they didn't start with <HTML> nor end with it. It was basically the perfect place for tag soup-lovers. The problem was that even then there were many text and graphical browser available. And almost none of them complied with any other. And so the W3C was founded to bring order to this chaos. The HTML 2.0 Recommendations were set forth in order to look the same, or very close, in every browser. And so others could read legible site sources. Oh yeah, it almost killed random new tags (fast foreward a few years for Netscape Navigator and Microsoft Internet Explorer to revive this). The HTML standards were set forth so people could cleanly write and read code. As well as Web browsers parsing it. It makes no sense to ignore them based on "laziness", as it doesn't take long to go somewhere like htmldog.com and learn the standards. There is no rule, no Internet police, that can force you to use these standards... thus the reason this board can still exist in its present state. It only helps that everyone of any operating system, any browser, and device (cells phones with WWW capability are getting popular) could view the page in a legible maner. |
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Gavin Fuzzy Rhinoceruses don't play games. They fucking charge your ass. Level: 43 Posts: 471/799 EXP: 551711 For next: 13335 Since: 03-15-04 From: IL, USA Since last post: 13 hours Last activity: 13 hours |
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| right, so there is no legitimat argument against standards other than "OMG i'M t00 H4RDC0RE to Ad0pt to ST4And4ARDS111! 4NARCHY 4 EVAR!111", which is all i here whenever Xkeeper opens his mouth. (edited by Gavin on 02-04-05 11:20 PM) |
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